Rent a Plane?

[Abel.DPL]

Hey guys, as many of the freshy's out of school pilots I can't land a job with the flat 200 hours.
Do any of you know of any way to build time cheaply?
What about renting a privately owned aircraft, do people do that?

I'm basically looking for unorthodox ways of time building that does not involve paying a school a small fortune. I any of you have some ideas, tips or contact it would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

[Panama Jack]

One of the best ways is not totally unorthodoxed, unethical or illegal. It is to become a Flight Instructor.

Being a Flight Instructor will allow you to get paid (not much though) for your time and get your first job. Great for networking too, as well as learning to deal with another pilot in the cockpit, and having a record as a successful instructor says something about your customer service skills. It can also lead to opportunities further down the road at airlines as training pilots (you already have some experience on how people learn and teaching) which leads to further opportunities as examiner or management positions (most flight ops management is staffed by former check airmen).

Think about it. There are a lot of people on this forum who utterly disrespect flight instructors and say that if you haven't worked the ramp, you have no future in a Airbus or a Boeing. However, as an Instructor you are, at least, flying, you have something to fall back on during the annual lull when seasonal jobs end, and you are clocking up the essential PIC time towards your ATP.

Now if you hate people, dislike talking much, and just can't imagine having the patience or passion to do a good job as an instructor, then don't.

[timel]

Hey Abel, 100% agree with PJ.

If you have extra money to spend, you could use it to get an instructor rating (and yes do it because you want to), working as a commercial pilot vs flying around as a private pilot. Two very different world.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Yes, you have two hundred hours...now go out there and teach some aspiring pilots everything you know about flying!

[timel]

Yes, you have two hundred hours...now go out there and teach some aspiring pilots everything you know about flying!

That is why you have class 4 to class 1 instructors.
A well trained/coached and supervised class 4 will do a fine job.

[PilotDAR]

Able,

Honestly, go any buy a very modest plane, and fly it lots. Pay to fix it as needed, just put minimum insurance on it. Consider living somewhere where it is simple to keep the plane, and job opportunities are perhaps different to support your passion. If you keep the plane in good shape (with your hard work too) after several hundred hours, you'll sell it to the nest pilot for what you paid for it. This will not only give you the flying experience, it will be very much more varied experience, 'cause you'll go places, instead of just the circuit and the training area. You'll meet lots of interesting people (the networking part), and they'll automatically respect you for stepping up (as they probably have) making a commitment to own, and not being shy to fly an embarrassing looking modest plane. That's about what I did 28 years ago, except I forgot to sell the plane, instead completely redoing everything over time, and it's a nice 150. I have never put in a job application in my life, just accepting work offered to me by people I met along the way - every one I met through flying.

Approach the flying instructor role with caution. Not to say don't do it, but with 200 hours, what you can offer to students in very modest. Yes, you'll be supervised, but your own opportunity to build experience rather than just time, will be limited. As said, you can have a thousand hours, or an hour a thousand times. In your beater 150, with faded paint, stained seats, and a torn headliner, you can cross Canada, and you'll be far the better pilot for it! The initiative to do that is what employers are looking for, because there are lots of "instructors" competing for those right seat jobs...

And, you'll know the people you meet along the way who have come up this way too, as they are the self made pilots who are not thinking the less of you, because you did not taxi up in a shiny retractable with glass cockpit, that they know you do not own.... When I see the pilot in the beater 150, I'm happy to chat with them, they're my kind of pilot....

[love2fly14]

I will be in the same situation in a few months....
I think so far the outs we have is:
1. Get a small 150 to build hrs.
2. Spend another 7K to get Instructor rating
3.Apply to small airlines worldwide, like susi airetc... and try to get a job...

Also looking for more ideas.. GL

[timel]

I will be in the same situation in a few months....
I think so far the outs we have is:
1. Get a small 150 to build hrs.
2. Spend another 7K to get Instructor rating
3.Apply to small airlines worldwide, like susi airetc... and try to get a job...

Also looking for more ideas.. GL

Buying an airplane and pay for annual, fuel, maintenance, insurance...
Sounds like a fine plan for a future airlines pilot.
Or lift up your sleeves and find a job.

[SuperchargedRS]

Where are you looking for work?

I hope your answer is you already tried every operator in Canada, put 10,000mi on your car, handed out resumes by the pound and shook so many hands you need some hand cream. Anything other than that and you're in the wrong industry.

Look into jobs in Africa, mainly Botswanna and Namibia, hiring season is pretty soon and they had a good turn over rate and lowish cost of living, if all else fails wait around and you'll get a job.

Getting your instructors isn't a bad idea.

Time building on your own dime, well that is a dumb idea.

One thing I like about the industry is it quickly weeds people out who lack tenacity and grit, if you can't manage that first job with a ink wet CPL, you're probably not going to make it, and as they say, not all the babie turtles make it to the ocean, but that's OK.

[PilotDAR]

Time building on your own dime, well that is a dumb idea

Yeah, "time building" is a dumb idea in general. It's building experience which has value. Building experience in varied conditions is best done in a plane that you own. This experience will make you a much more broadly experienced pilot than just about any piloting job you can get with 200 hours. The employer will never allow the new 200 hour pilot to fly the adventures (with which you build great experience) that you can allow yourself in your own plane. Their dime, they're going to protect it, so you won't get the experience, 'cause they are not in aviation for you, so don't want the risk for your learning. It'll be that hour a thousand times experience...

[SuperchargedRS]

Time building on your own dime, well that is a dumb idea

Yeah, "time building" is a dumb idea in general. It's building experience which has value. Building experience in varied conditions is best done in a plane that you own. This experience will make you a much more broadly experienced pilot than just about any piloting job you can get with 200 hours. The employer will never allow the new 200 hour pilot to fly the adventures (with which you build great experience) that you can allow yourself in your own plane. Their dime, they're going to protect it, so you won't get the experience, 'cause they are not in aviation for you, so don't want the risk for your learning. It'll be that hour a thousand times experience...

I built the hours for my CPL in a S108 I bought (and later sold for a A185F), so I get that.

However those cross the country cross countries, flying into other countries, that's stuff you're sposed to do while you're building time for your CPL! And yes, money talks, you can do that stuff in a rental too.

That said, after my CPL I got a job (flying not ramping), got my CFI a year later, flew everything from ferry flights, private owners, instructed, big drop zones, photography, etc, to build the hours for my ATP.

Point is the only flying I paid for after my CPL was not time building type flying or experience flying, it was flying for the joy of it in my own plane.

Flying on your own dime IS NOT the same experience as flying as a CPL for work. I'm sure many operators would MUCH rather have a guy who built hours up WORKING vs a guy who bought his hours PLAYING.

YMMV

[timel]

I agree with SuperchargedRS.

Fly for money is not the same as flying for pleasure.
Guys with operations are be definitely more valuable then guys with fly around.

[DonutHole]

The insurance company does not care where you got the hours.

TC doesn't care where you got the hours.

just get hours, any way you can. If you can't get a job get a plane.... but find a way to get hours.

Not everybody lands at the right place at the right time, and if the operator requires X hours and you have way more when you apply what do you think is going to happen?

I know a lot of grassroots operators that hire guys who built their time in their own aircraft, but you gotta have the hours.

[CpnCrunch]

That said, after my CPL I got a job (flying not ramping), got my CFI a year later, flew everything from ferry flights, private owners, instructed, big drop zones, photography, etc, to build the hours for my ATP.

What was your first job, SuperchargedRS?

[timel]

Most guys I know don't have any money left after finishing cpl and ifr.

But hey, we don't live all the same reality.

You guys give me a sound financial plan for buying an aircraft and building an other 400 hours without going completely bankrupt.

A cpl/ifr cost like 40k now?
Soon to cost 80k in order to get a paying job? It is getting ridiculous.

[DonutHole]

The key is you buy the plane before starting training, then the dual only adds 5k to the total.

[SuperchargedRS]

That said, after my CPL I got a job (flying not ramping), got my CFI a year later, flew everything from ferry flights, private owners, instructed, big drop zones, photography, etc, to build the hours for my ATP.

What was your first job, SuperchargedRS?

Flying around a business owner in the mighty turbo arrow VI

The insurance company does not care where you got the hours.

TC doesn't care where you got the hours.

just get hours, any way you can. If you can't get a job get a plane.... but find a way to get hours.

Not everybody lands at the right place at the right time, and if the operator requires X hours and you have way more when you apply what do you think is going to happen?

I know a lot of grassroots operators that hire guys who built their time in their own aircraft, but you gotta have the hours.

The HR folks care
The Chief Pilot and interview panel cares

Look at how many job postings ask for things like prior charter experience, airline experience, drop zone experience, etc, etc.



Here's something I didn't see mentioned.

Having sales or service industry experience helps a TON, being able to make friends quickly and network helps, after you land the job being able to instill a friendly feeling of safety and professionalism in people who know nothing of aviation is HUGE, being able to realize you're a low commodity product after your get your ink wet CPL and sell yourself, often semi-based on other non aviation skills you can also offer, that helps too.

Being able to fix small engines, work on computers, operate a fork lift, accounting, web design, hunting experience, fishing experience, medical experience, firearms experience, construction experience, obviously customer service or sales experience, etc, all these things could very well get you in the door for your first flying job.

[DonutHole]

We are talking about a first job. The jobs with the requirements you listed tend to be mid level, not entry level.

[CpnCrunch]

What was your first job, SuperchargedRS?

Flying around a business owner in the mighty turbo arrow VI

That is a pretty sweet gig, but I imagine it isn't easy to find -- it's basically about having the right connections, luck, etc.

However to be honest I would never recommend to a business owner that they hire a fresh CPL to fly them around. Someone who has owned their own plane for a few years would be a much better and safer option IMO. In your case, I believe you said you did own your own plane to get your CPL, and I imagine that helped you get your first job.

[SuperchargedRS]

So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.

[SuperchargedRS]

What was your first job, SuperchargedRS?

Flying around a business owner in the mighty turbo arrow VI

That is a pretty sweet gig, but I imagine it isn't easy to find -- it's basically about having the right connections, luck, etc.

However to be honest I would never recommend to a business owner that they hire a fresh CPL to fly them around. Someone who has owned their own plane for a few years would be a much better and safer option IMO. In your case, I believe you said you did own your own plane to get your CPL, and I imagine that helped you get your first job.

Exactly, the Stinson helped, also we had a mutual friend in sales.

[CpnCrunch]

So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about your those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.

Who says you would be flying around for $100 burgers? You would likely be flying across the country in various weather, lots of mountain flying, managing maintenance, etc.

[DonutHole]

So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.

You're not getting the 500 hours to compete with the 500 hour guys, you're getting them to compete with the 200 hour guys.

[DonutHole]

So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about your those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.

Who says you would be flying around for $100 burgers? You would likely be flying across the country in various weather, lots of mountain flying, managing maintenance, etc.

Most importantly, making command decisions.

[SuperchargedRS]

So when you sit down for that interview, you have your 500hrs and they ask about your those hours, saying you were flying jumpers, towing gliders, instructing, flying charters abroad etc, is going to get you a lot further than saying you added those 200+ extra hours flying around getting $100 burgers with your friends.

Who says you would be flying around for $100 burgers? You would likely be flying across the country in various weather, lots of mountain flying, managing maintenance, etc.

Most importantly, making command decisions.

Meh, it's WAAAY different IMO

Private flying, You're flying on YOUR schedule, under pressure only from yourself, you can't get fired, if you don't fly you actually have MORE money in the bank, etc.

Go fly jumpers, you'll only get paid for flying, so there is that pressure, the jumpers (with no ticket at risk and just enough aviation knowledge to be annoying ) will pressure you to do do stuff, they'll move around in the plane, massive CG changes on jump run, you need to turn loads quick and not hurt the plane while descending and climbing as fast as possible, you need to fly the plane the way the OWNER wants you to fly it, not the way you want to fly it, you'll need to hustle when you refuel, calculate how much fuel you'll need on the next fuel stop, how much you're going to burn for a hop n' pop in addition to that pass at 13k, plus the wind changed so where are you going to give them the cut, and you'll need those answers yesterday. You show up at the airport when the OWNER wants you to, you leave when the OWNER wants you too.

Same deal with gliders, banner ops, charter overseas, etc.

You think flying your own cross country on your day off, on your time, your rules, involves "command decisions" that's nothing compared to operating under someone else, someone who might not even be a pilot and someone who puts food on your table.


These are the things a fresh CPL needs to experiences, and the difference between logging hours as a PPL and logging hours as a CPL.

Besides it's a lot easier on the bank account to get PIAD vs PAYING to fly