Recommendable flight school near Vancouver, BC, Canada

[dogfish]

Hello,

I've been looking to get a PPL, and have been researching a bit about flight schools around Greater Vancouver.
However, since most posts that I have found are a few years old, I wanted to post this question again.

I want to go to a flight school in either Richmond, Delta, Langley. Is there a good place that doesn't charge hidden costs (i.e. fuel charges at the end of training), and has good training? Some places I've been considering include Coastal Pacific, Sea Land Air
and Pacific Flying Club, but I'm always welcome to different suggestions.

If anyone can give me some reviews regarding your experiences, as well as some good suggestions, that would be great! Thank you!

[AirFrame]

Skyquest at Langley.

[7ECA]

Go to CZBB, CYNJ, CYPK, and CYXX. Visit each school, and get a tour, sit down with the CFI or an instructor, and feel each place out. Find which schools feel like the best fit, then take an intro or fam flight, and see which one really is best for you.

[icosco]

I'm a big fan of Pacific Flying Club out of Boundary Bay. Did my CPL and MIFR there and was pleased with the service.

[ahramin]

I found Pacific Flying Club to be a massive pain as far as rentals go after getting your licence. Have to fly their specific aircraft every 2 months regardless of currency or experience. Silly hoops to jump through like "full load checkouts". Classifying the same aircraft with different engine models as different airplanes. Can't depart on a cross country trip because the instructor has a spidey sense that some fog might roll in after you've left .

Your typical Flight School Turned Madhouse. Whatever school you choose, I would highly recommend looking into their rental policies for once you have your licence. There any many schools in the Fraser Valley that still know what airplanes actually do.

[wowie_kazowie]

7ECA Has some good advice. Check out a few schools and find out which one you would like to train at. I have trained at 3 different schools in the area at 3 different airports, all had their own personalities and ways of doing things. I settled at the one that treated me well (like a person), and flew with a great instructor, who it still keep in contact with.

[AirFrame]

Remember, YPK, YNJ, and YXX have practise areas almost adjoining their zones. ZBB is a 15 minute flight to the closest practise area. You'll get (and pay for) a lot of cross-country time that could be better spent practising your air work. I learned at ZBB, but that was back when there was a south practise area over King George airpark. I wouldn't recommend it to someone starting now. The schools already want you to spend 60-70 hours to get a 45 hour license that a lot of our parents got in only 25 hours... Don't give them any reasons beyond your own ineptitude for it to take that long.

[Big Pistons Forever]

. The schools already want you to spend 60-70 hours to get a 45 hour license that a lot of our parents got in only 25 hours

[Rookie50]

I found Pacific Flying Club to be a massive pain as far as rentals go after getting your licence. Have to fly their specific aircraft every 2 months regardless of currency or experience. Silly hoops to jump through like "full load checkouts". Classifying the same aircraft with different engine models as different airplanes. Can't depart on a cross country trip because the instructor has a spidey sense that some fog might roll in after you've left .

Your typical Flight School Turned Madhouse. Whatever school you choose, I would highly recommend looking into their rental policies for once you have your licence. There any many schools in the Fraser Valley that still know what airplanes actually do.

This is a good point and a big impediment to a new PPL gaining that valuable CC experience. Schools are you listening? Pilots do not gain experience staying in the practice area.

Now if these currency rules are simply designed to bleed the post PPL dry that's one thing, but perhaps your ATP coming in to rent for whatever reason might actually know the weathers safe to fly at least as well as the new class 4 behind the counter, and might be still safe to control the terrifying 172 n, r, and s, after 61 days.

Use some judgment.

[Shiny Side Up]

If you wonder why flight schools become that way, take a look in the mirror. To be honest, renting airplanes out is a high risk, low gain proposition. I know every year we've had to make our policies regarding it more restrictive. I've contemplated in the past barring rental to any outside customers who weren't previous students.

Do you guys have airplanes in your care that you give out to complete strangers? Rookie50: What would you require from someone to fly your personal plane?

[Rookie50]

If you wonder why flight schools become that way, take a look in the mirror. To be honest, renting airplanes out is a high risk, low gain proposition. I know every year we've had to make our policies regarding it more restrictive. I've contemplated in the past barring rental to any outside customers who weren't previous students.

Do you guys have airplanes in your care that you give out to complete strangers? Rookie50: What would you require from someone to fly your personal plane?

SSU;

1. My plane is a constant speed high performance retractable. Not sure it's a comparable discussion.

2. What is so different, besides the obvious FI vs carb; for example, between a 172 N, R and S, that cannot be gleaned from the POH, as to require completely not only separate checkouts, but non - transferable currency? I know pilots do dumb things. Maybe it all has to be lowered to the lowest denominator, that is unfortunate.

3. Again -- I thought the mandate of a school -- was to develop commercial pilots. (for those on that path) How does the practical experience happen (for your own responsible students at least -- which should be apparent) -- if they can't reasonably rent the airplanes to build that experience (under supervision, admittedly)

4. I suppose in your position I'd be very cautious with a non student renter I didn't know - until some trust was built. That seems to be the issue -- is there room for wise discretion? Maybe not. I've never run an operation, to be fair.

[Shiny Side Up]

1. My plane is a constant speed high performance retractable. Not sure it's a comparable discussion.

That's irrelevant to the question.

3. Again -- I thought the mandate of a school -- was to develop commercial pilots. (for those on that path) How does the practical experience happen (for your own responsible students at least -- which should be apparent) -- if they can't reasonably rent the airplanes to build that experience (under supervision, admittedly)

No one says that said development has to be cheap or convinient. One might say that some of the most skill developing things I've done in aviation were extrordinarily inconvinient, costly and time intensive.

4. I suppose in your position I'd be very cautious with a non student renter I didn't know - until some trust was built. That seems to be the issue -- is there room for wise discretion? Maybe not. I've never run an operation, to be fair.

But you're a customer who has an opinion on the matter. You have an airplane, the question still stands: How would you go about renting that airplane to someone else? What kind of check out would you require? Would you have any restrictions placed upon its use? How do you build the trust you require?

Now if you were your own customer with that in mind, would you feel that would be something inhibiting your skill development?

Have to fly their specific aircraft every 2 months regardless of currency or experience. Silly hoops to jump through like "full load checkouts". Classifying the same aircraft with different engine models as different airplanes. Can't depart on a cross country trip because the instructor has a spidey sense that some fog might roll in after you've left .

To be honest I have the same two month rule on currency. I don't care what else you say you've flown, who you flew it for, or with. Unless your boss at your other flying gig is willing to come lay down a credit card in case you f@ck up my plane, I want to make sure I've seen you fly in the last two months. You know, because no one ever lies about how current they are. While I don't do load check outs, or different checks on types for different models (we used to let people interchangeably fly the 152 and the 172) I could see where some tards might need that, so it depends on the majority of your customer base - I would take onerus requirements like that in the vein that they get a lot of demand from people who at the end of it get hung up on silly shit. See my previous thread on the topic. And to be honest, if I don't like the weather, you ain't going. I'm sure you were considering that said fog might inhibit your return of the aircraft? Or where was it going to be left? My weather sense has so far proven a lot better than many of the other pilots I know, some of whom are dead. If you don't like it, find someone else's airplane to rent.

From long experience renting out airplanes, maybe I'm jaded, but I just don't trust anyone to have good sense anymore. So when I see restrictive rules on students and renter, I may not always agree with them, but I certainly know how they come to be.

[Rookie50]

1. My plane is a constant speed high performance retractable. Not sure it's a comparable discussion.

That's irrelevant to the question.

Actually it isn't; because its a lot easier to damage, or lose control of even -- rudder is not an afterthought, let along remembering gear -- on a 182 RG than a 172N, and a lot more expensive; in my humble opinion, at least for your low timer crowd with no experience on type. On the other hand, I haven't touched a 172 in 18 months at least, and I'm fairly confident I wouldn't crack it up. But who knows!

Bottom line it's your school, and as a business owner myself -- I support your decision to make the rules according to your experience. Kinda too bad it seems to go to the lowest denominator. I know schools where you could have 30 hours in 2 months on a brand new S model, but if they are all busy, no currency allowed to rent the N model sitting there. Policy, end of story. Strikes me as overkill, but they ain't my birds.

[Shiny Side Up]

Actually it isn't; because its a lot easier to damage, or lose control of even -- rudder is not an afterthought, let along remembering gear -- on a 182 RG than a 172N, and a lot more expensive; in my humble opinion, at least for your low timer crowd with no experience on type.

No, that's stuff you tell yourself. We used to do i hour check outs to upgrade to the constant speed and RG if people were reasonable pilots. If they weren't, well they probably couldn't fly the 150 either. That said though, while you'd like to leave it up to the discretion of the instructor, you have to make rules for all, so I see why what seems reasonable, often ain't the case. The bigger the operation, the more rules and procedures there's going to be.

Kinda too bad it seems to go to the lowest denominator.

Unfortunate, but as a business owner, surely you must know the reasons why. In the end its all about money. As is often said about maintaining airplanes, applies to FTUs as well. You can have it convenient, cheap, or good quality. Pick two.

edit: still would like to know how other people would handle renting out their own airplanes.

[Rookie50]

I wouldn't rent my plane. It would make zero financial sense for the renter.

And if you're talking a 172RG checkout, I did an initial hour checkout and rented one for years. A 182RG -- well it's a little bit more to handle and I would want to see more than that, if it was me renting to the low timer.

[Cat Driver]

When I owned a flight school I rented out every aircraft I owned including the R22.

However I did all the check rides for first renters and had firm rules as to their use.

Never ever had an incident in the seven years I operated the school.

Bottom line is there really is no one size fits all in doing check rides as it varies from renter to renter.

[Shiny Side Up]

I wouldn't rent my plane. It would make zero financial sense for the renter.

Come, use your imagination. Say there's some reason it would, the reasons aren't important. You own planes and want to make money off of them. You're the Chief pilot/ CFI/ head honcho. Tell me what you'd set up to rent aircraft. An hour check? Two? What exercises would you deem most important? What limitations would you impose? Cat knows what I'm talking about, use his example.

Never ever had an incident in the seven years I operated the school.

If by incident you mean accident, neither have we. The problems always arise with generating revenue and serving customers. Really depends on your market, which has changed over the years in my opinion, and I can't believe we did things we used to do. As typical for many good things though, a few ruin it for many. I won't bore you people with the horror stories.

[awitzke]

Remember, YPK, YNJ, and YXX have practise areas almost adjoining their zones. ZBB is a 15 minute flight to the closest practise area. You'll get (and pay for) a lot of cross-country time that could be better spent practising your air work. I learned at ZBB, but that was back when there was a south practise area over King George airpark. I wouldn't recommend it to someone starting now. The schools already want you to spend 60-70 hours to get a 45 hour license that a lot of our parents got in only 25 hours... Don't give them any reasons beyond your own ineptitude for it to take that long.

I flew out of ZBB and flight tested at 50 hours. As do most others.

OP.. just go around to different schools and get a feel for the place. I personally trained at PFC from the initial fam to currently my group 1 inst rating. I enjoyed it, however I've been lucky to fly with the same instructor from the beginning through to now (2 years, PPL, CPL, Night, Multi and now IFR). That had a large impact on why I stayed. Sometimes it was frustrating getting a plane in the summer with the BCIT students and the cadets there at the same time but things have gotten better with specific aircraft that are set aside as well as instructors for the "private" pay as you go students (like I was). There is also Pro IFR, which a friend of mine just did his CPL, and MIFR at. He seemed to enjoy it. So really it comes down to you. Go check out the different airports for yourself and sit down with the CFI not a class 4 for the real "what is this place like" talk. Good luck.

[awitzke]

I found Pacific Flying Club to be a massive pain as far as rentals go after getting your licence. Have to fly their specific aircraft every 2 months regardless of currency or experience. Silly hoops to jump through like "full load checkouts". Classifying the same aircraft with different engine models as different airplanes. Can't depart on a cross country trip because the instructor has a spidey sense that some fog might roll in after you've left .

Your typical Flight School Turned Madhouse. Whatever school you choose, I would highly recommend looking into their rental policies for once you have your licence. There any many schools in the Fraser Valley that still know what airplanes actually do.

This is a good point and a big impediment to a new PPL gaining that valuable CC experience. Schools are you listening? Pilots do not gain experience staying in the practice area.

Now if these currency rules are simply designed to bleed the post PPL dry that's one thing, but perhaps your ATP coming in to rent for whatever reason might actually know the weathers safe to fly at least as well as the new class 4 behind the counter, and might be still safe to control the terrifying 172 n, r, and s, after 61 days.

Use some judgment.

I don't know what you guys are talking about. The currency is yearly. I would know, I just had to renew mine. So long as you have a license and not a student pilot permit, the currency at PFC is 1 year.

[awitzke]

If you wonder why flight schools become that way, take a look in the mirror. To be honest, renting airplanes out is a high risk, low gain proposition. I know every year we've had to make our policies regarding it more restrictive. I've contemplated in the past barring rental to any outside customers who weren't previous students.

Do you guys have airplanes in your care that you give out to complete strangers? Rookie50: What would you require from someone to fly your personal plane?

SSU;

1. My plane is a constant speed high performance retractable. Not sure it's a comparable discussion.

2. What is so different, besides the obvious FI vs carb; for example, between a 172 N, R and S, that cannot be gleaned from the POH, as to require completely not only separate checkouts, but non - transferable currency? I know pilots do dumb things. Maybe it all has to be lowered to the lowest denominator, that is unfortunate.

3. Again -- I thought the mandate of a school -- was to develop commercial pilots. (for those on that path) How does the practical experience happen (for your own responsible students at least -- which should be apparent) -- if they can't reasonably rent the airplanes to build that experience (under supervision, admittedly)

4. I suppose in your position I'd be very cautious with a non student renter I didn't know - until some trust was built. That seems to be the issue -- is there room for wise discretion? Maybe not. I've never run an operation, to be fair.

At PFC you only need a start check in the R if you have a current yearly checkout in any other 172. If you want to fly the constant speed you need an actual flight check out for that. However that flight will also now get you current on the R as well since both are fuel injected. Things cross over. You don't need a check out in every single different model.

The amount of mis information on this site is hilarious.

[Rookie50]

If you wonder why flight schools become that way, take a look in the mirror. To be honest, renting airplanes out is a high risk, low gain proposition. I know every year we've had to make our policies regarding it more restrictive. I've contemplated in the past barring rental to any outside customers who weren't previous students.

Do you guys have airplanes in your care that you give out to complete strangers? Rookie50: What would you require from someone to fly your personal plane?

SSU;

1. My plane is a constant speed high performance retractable. Not sure it's a comparable discussion.

2. What is so different, besides the obvious FI vs carb; for example, between a 172 N, R and S, that cannot be gleaned from the POH, as to require completely not only separate checkouts, but non - transferable currency? I know pilots do dumb things. Maybe it all has to be lowered to the lowest denominator, that is unfortunate.

3. Again -- I thought the mandate of a school -- was to develop commercial pilots. (for those on that path) How does the practical experience happen (for your own responsible students at least -- which should be apparent) -- if they can't reasonably rent the airplanes to build that experience (under supervision, admittedly)

4. I suppose in your position I'd be very cautious with a non student renter I didn't know - until some trust was built. That seems to be the issue -- is there room for wise discretion? Maybe not. I've never run an operation, to be fair.

At PFC you only need a start check in the R if you have a current yearly checkout in any other 172. If you want to fly the constant speed you need an actual flight check out for that. However that flight will also now get you current on the R as well since both are fuel injected. Things cross over. You don't need a check out in every single different model.

The amount of mis information on this site is hilarious.

I know schools where the above information is accurate.

[photofly]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. The currency is yearly. I would know, I just had to renew mine. So long as you have a license and not a student pilot permit, the currency at PFC is 1 year.

They'd let any 57 hour ppl who'd not flown since his or her flight test 11 months ago rent an airplane solo, is that correct?

Would you lend that pilot your airplane?
Would you let your father/mother/wife/son/daughter be their passenger?

My local school has the following written policy for PPL holders:
some PIC within the last 30 days, or a circuit check if PIC between 30 and 60 days, or some airwork and a circuit check beyond 60 days. However the policy is interpreted flexibly for pilots who are out of currency but with known skills. it's also more relaxed for CPL holders.

If you are a low time PPL and you haven't flown for 3 months, I'm not sure that being made to practice a forced approach and a couple of stall recoveries is such a bad idea.

The people who complain the loudest are usually the weakest pilots, for whom the written policy is enforced strictly. They don't get to see how the better renters get treated.

[dogfish]

Uhh.. This post has somehow become a heated discussion

Anyways, thank you for all of your suggestions! I'll take them all into consideration when choosing my flight school

[moocow]

Another one you could check out is Pacific Rim Aviation at Pitt Meadows. I did a C172 check out at their school and it seems like a decent outfit, however, it was years ago. I also checked out a DA20 at Sea Land Air at CZBB last year but I don't like that aircraft at all. Also they used to have no minimum over night rental charge but that's no longer the case. As for CFC, I did my PPL there just before the owner changed so I don't know what's that place is like now since most of the staff I knew have moved on.

[Old Dog Flying]

Mis-information abounds in the aviation world. Airframe has on a few occasions mentioned the "licence in 25 hrs" but this is a hand-me-down bit of BS from a family member.

The old "Approved" PPL course was 30 hrs; the "Unapproved" course was 45 hrs. This was back in the era of CatDriver and I starting out. The PPL course was changed, if memory serves, in the early 1970s to 45 hrs minimum for everyone.

So Rob, please modify your software to the correct standards and delete what you were told as a kid about the "good old days" of He Man training.

Barney