Sky Regional Contracting out work

[v1ref]

It looks like sky regional is contracting out its dispatch department to air Canada to save money.
come on this seems a little backwards contracting work from a low cost carrier to the highest cost airline in the country

[rudder]

AC has provided many other services to SKY in order to incept and sustain the 175 operation so this should come as no surprise. SKY is a shell company. Likely the precursor to the termination of the Q400 YTZ operation and a possible transfer of the 5 SKY Q400's to Jazz. I do not see AC dispatch in the Q400 business.

[Takeoff OK]

AC has provided many other services to SKY in order to incept and sustain the 175 operation so this should come as no surprise. SKY is a shell company. Likely the precursor to the termination of the Q400 YTZ operation and a possible transfer of the 5 SKY Q400's to Jazz. I do not see AC dispatch in the Q400 business.

Pretty much nailed it. Unfortunately for those at Sky, the reality of feeding a beast that cares not a whit about you is going to become more and more painful. Sky owns nothing; not the planes and not the routes. They can and will be shifted around to any number of new AC feeders that pop up over the next decade. Lowest bidder will always win. Rovanescu wants a U.S. regional model of operation, and that is exactly what he is building. Woe to everyone in flight ops.

[BingBong]

As nice as it would be to have the island flying back where it belongs...they can keep those pieces of shit. 499 was a POS when we bailed their asses out...the one I DH on last week was a POS....just park them or send them back to the lessor

[PROC_HDG]

As nice as it would be to have the island flying back where it belongs...they can keep those pieces of shit. 499 was a POS when we bailed their asses out...the one I DH on last week was a POS....just park them or send them back to the lessor

In other words, if we can't have the flying nobody can? Park 5 airplanes that are employing 40+ pilots? That's what you think should happen?

I'm not sure what 499 you're referring to but i don't think Maple has a fin 499.

I guess now that Jazz is paying the lowest starting wage on a DH8 in the business, you guys think they're gonna get a bunch of new airplanes? Or better yet, repossess them from other [cheaper] express feeders? Maple will probably continue to be the most cost-effective option for AC for the foreseeable future. Why they are moving dispatch to AC I don't know, but I wouldn't count on any fleet reduction at SKV.

PROC_HDG

[rudder]

Looks like transfer of SKY dispatch authority to AC was not necessarily for commercial reasons. Jazz approached to dispatch SKY Q400 operation.

Any SKY staff care to comment? Being the cheapest CPA provider is one thing. Meeting the requirements of an Operating Certificate is another.

Jazz will now be providing basic operational and commercial services for both SKY and GGN. Lucky for AC that Jazz is capable of meeting these obligations on the part of its AC Express counterparts.

[airboy1]

AC has provided many other services to SKY in order to incept and sustain the 175 operation so this should come as no surprise. SKY is a shell company. Likely the precursor to the termination of the Q400 YTZ operation and a possible transfer of the 5 SKY Q400's to Jazz. I do not see AC dispatch in the Q400 business.

+1

From what I hear YTZ operations are nearing the end, just too expensive. Q400's won't last too long at SKV. Now that Jazz is cheaper to operate, we'll get those Q's for sure. Get ready to be below me in seniority!! Thank god this circus didn't last too long. I really hope none of Sky pilots that gets laid off get hired by AC. Just wouldn't be fair considering they lowered the standard.

Karma is a real prick ain't it?

[Inverted2]

I'm wondering how long this Air Georgian fiasco will last as well. Just about every GGN flight was late on the boards yesterday and a few were cancelled as well. The Air Canada agents are all fed up because they have to face the angry pax.

[Maxpwr]

ROTFLMAO!!!! Yep it's all over. Better make room in your hangars because you finally get your wish to fly 15 Embraers and 5 more Q400's. You guys are just plain bitter. Face it, Sky isn't going anywhere. YTZ operation isn't going anywhere either. The fact that you believe YTZ is nearing the end shows that you have no clue what you're talking about. LOL! Too funny!

ACs goal has been achieved, to reduce their CPA costs across the board. There you have it. That's the end game and it's done. Move on. Let me break the news to you same 5 loudmouthed, dumb as a fence post, haters on here...you are an EMBARRASSMENT to your fellow Jazz pilots. That's right, the fine folks at Jazz that I know are simply ASHAMED OF YOU and your hate spewing tripe here on AvCanada. I just feel it's time you hear the truth from someone who cares about you. So go ahead and hold your head up high in the crew room but just know that it's YOU that are the real pariahs. Good job. To the rest of the 1500 pilots at Jazz, my colleagues and I will not judge you based on these few imbeciles here on AvCanada. We know you folks are some of the finest pilots and people out there working for a highly respected airline. I wish you all good luck in the future.

PS: the YTZ flying along with ALL the regional flying BELONGS to Air Canada. Not Jazz, not Sky. Try and remember that the tail doesn't wag the dog.

[SilvrSurfr]

AC has provided many other services to SKY in order to incept and sustain the 175 operation so this should come as no surprise. SKY is a shell company. Likely the precursor to the termination of the Q400 YTZ operation and a possible transfer of the 5 SKY Q400's to Jazz. I do not see AC dispatch in the Q400 business.

+1

From what I hear YTZ operations are nearing the end, just too expensive. Q400's won't last too long at SKV. Now that Jazz is cheaper to operate, we'll get those Q's for sure. Get ready to be below me in seniority!! Thank god this circus didn't last too long. I really hope none of Sky pilots that gets laid off get hired by AC. Just wouldn't be fair considering they lowered the standard.

Karma is a real prick ain't it?

Wow....Just wow!

Speaking of hoping someone doesn't get hired at AC. With an attitude like that I hope you are not on the PML. Not sure what you've heard out there, but attitudes like that are not welcome over here at mainline. At any rate, I would recommend at least stowing that crap during your interview.

Surfr

[Art Garfunkel]

Jazz pilots need to look at Halifax, where the true costs are hiding. How many VP's? How many directors? How many general managers? How many $$ fly out the window to shareholders? Blaming other pilots? really? You guys are starting to tarnish your previously good professional image.

[Stinky]

I really hate to point out the obvious...but

Now that Jazz is cheaper to operate, we'll get those Q's for sure.

[PROC_HDG]

ROTFLMAO!!!! Yep it's all over. Better make room in your hangars because you finally get your wish to fly 15 Embraers and 5 more Q400's. You guys are just plain bitter. Face it, Sky isn't going anywhere. YTZ operation isn't going anywhere either. The fact that you believe YTZ is nearing the end shows that you have no clue what you're talking about. LOL! Too funny!

ACs goal has been achieved, to reduce their CPA costs across the board. There you have it. That's the end game and it's done. Move on. Let me break the news to you same 5 loudmouthed, dumb as a fence post, haters on here...you are an EMBARRASSMENT to your fellow Jazz pilots. That's right, the fine folks at Jazz that I know are simply ASHAMED OF YOU and your hate spewing tripe here on AvCanada. I just feel it's time you hear the truth from someone who cares about you. So go ahead and hold your head up high in the crew room but just know that it's YOU that are the real pariahs. Good job. To the rest of the 1500 pilots at Jazz, my colleagues and I will not judge you based on these few imbeciles here on AvCanada. We know you folks are some of the finest pilots and people out there working for a highly respected airline. I wish you all good luck in the future.

PS: the YTZ flying along with ALL the regional flying BELONGS to Air Canada. Not Jazz, not Sky. Try and remember that the tail doesn't wag the dog.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Making regional flying a dick measuring contest about who deserves what flying is the most counter-productive thing that we, as professionals can do. Have some solidarity - nobody went to work for Sky because they wanted to F!ck over the industry. They did it because they needed a job. We all want good jobs and lots of them. Nobody in this business should be wishing other pilots' jobs away and using such slanderous language to talk about their fellow professionals.

PROC_HDG

[JoeyBarton]

Sky Reg has a CPA anyways, so if they loose the flying they will probably fly elsewhere with the Q's

[Canoehead]

I'm going to suggest, respectfully, that there are several posts on this thread which show a general arrogance to the situation between AC and its CPA "partners".
Perhaps before everyone gets emotional here, do some research and know your facts before you start throwing a stones, or burying your head in the sand.

(For starters, "499" was the fin number applied by Jazz to the SKR machine when Jazz operated it. It is "945" at SKR. Simple fact... and they get more complex from here).

[PROC_HDG]

(For starters, "499" was the fin number applied by Jazz to the SKR machine when Jazz operated it. It is "945" at SKR. Simple fact... and they get more complex from here).

Thank you for the clarification.

PROC_HDG

[justwork]

AC has provided many other services to SKY in order to incept and sustain the 175 operation so this should come as no surprise. SKY is a shell company. Likely the precursor to the termination of the Q400 YTZ operation and a possible transfer of the 5 SKY Q400's to Jazz. I do not see AC dispatch in the Q400 business.

+1

From what I hear YTZ operations are nearing the end, just too expensive. Q400's won't last too long at SKV. Now that Jazz is cheaper to operate, we'll get those Q's for sure. Get ready to be below me in seniority!! Thank god this circus didn't last too long. I really hope none of Sky pilots that gets laid off get hired by AC. Just wouldn't be fair considering they lowered the standard.

Karma is a real prick ain't it?

How is jazz cheaper to operate? Are you suggesting that pilot salaries are the only operating costs? AC will be at the island for as long as Porter... Who knows how long that will be but porter is pushing 10 years, which I'd say is pretty great.

I work for sky regional, I'm a captain on the embraer. If you would like to discuss working conditions, karma, or why you deserve to work at air canada over any of my fellow co workers, I would be more than happy to meet you face to face. I'll even buy you a beer.

Like i said, I work at sky. The plane I fly is nicer then my last, the money is better, the schedule is about the same, the experience I'm gaining will help me achieve my career goals, I live in the town I've always wanted to, the people I work with are great. Moving from my last airline to sky regional has been positive for me in every way.

Our customer is Air Canada, and from the mouth of their CEO directly to my ear, they are happy and impressed with the service we provide. Sky won't be losing any Q's anytime soon. Unless the level of service they provide air canada drastically changes I suspect you will be hearing more Maple calls on the radio.

As for you airboy, good luck in your career. Be careful what you wish for, many pilots at sky are providers for their families, and as you said "karma is a real prick".

[dashx]

And AC is interviewing the Sky personnel for dispatcher positions. A few will get in.

From what I have seen (and heard) Skyregional is here to stay.......

But then again what you hear...........

[rudder]

Back to the original thread topic......

Who is (or will be) dispatching SKY flights? If SKY is going to be subbing out dispatch to either or both AC and Jazz - why? How can a 705 operator with a fleet of 20 aircraft not be capable of dispatching its own aircraft per the requirements of its AOC?

[justwork]

Back to the original thread topic......

Who is (or will be) dispatching SKY flights? If SKY is going to be subbing out dispatch to either or both AC and Jazz - why? How can a 705 operator with a fleet of 20 aircraft not be capable of dispatching its own aircraft per the requirements of its AOC?

Everything I've heard is that AC will be dispatching sky regional flights, likely transition to them this spring or early summer. Rudder, Sky regional is capable of dispatching their own fleet, and have been successfully doing that for a while. Operating flights for Air Canada and having them dispatch us makes good sense and has many operational benefits for Air Canada.

[rudder]

Operating flights for Air Canada and having them dispatch us makes good sense and has many operational benefits for Air Canada.

Interesting analysis. So using that same logic, why is AC not also dispatching Jazz, Georgian, and EVAS?

[JoeyBarton]

Maybe AC has more experience dispatching the embraers than sky?
Also, if you are already dispatching the 190s, why wouldn't you get the 175s dispatching back on the property? That's double the dispatch team for essentially the same airplane.
Plus I hear AC will have more control on sky's ops that way.
Now if I were a captain, I'd rather call an AC dispatch than a low cost dispatch for a briefing. I figure there is less of a "somebody's breathing down your neck" type of thing.

Now for the q4s, it beats me

[justwork]

Operating flights for Air Canada and having them dispatch us makes good sense and has many operational benefits for Air Canada.

Interesting analysis. So using that same logic, why is AC not also dispatching Jazz, Georgian, and EVAS?

I have absolutely no clue and this is outside of mine and your job description. I could hazard a guess if that helps. I think EVAS and GGN are pretty much 1900 operators? With the exception of the few RJ's GGN operates? Although both of them operate routes that are prone to delays and cancellations due to weather, the loads are likely recoverable with an additional sector or two added when weather improves. I would guess that for that reason Air Canada dispatch does not need to work as closely with GGN or EVAS. So for Air Canada to dispatch their flights doesn't make sense, you don't see AC sending a '67 to Moncton to cover a backlog of passengers traveling to Halifax. Jazz has a much larger route network and fleet compared to sky regional, maybe financially it is cheaper to dispatch themselves instead of contracting to AC. AC would likely have to add considerable man power and resources to dispatch for jazz. Sky regional is unique for two reasons that I see. The fleet size is relatively small and the route network is demanding, high loads plus difficult seasonal weather plus saturated airports. Often daily, flights are delayed into airports like LGA, ORD, and EWR. Not because the operator is doing a poor job but because the airports are very busy, compounded with demanding seasonal weather. This winter I have seen the 67 in LGA twice in an attempt to recover the passengers from many cancelled or delayed Sky Regional, Air Canada, and Jazz flights, again not at the fault of the operator. If Air Canada can improve operational efficiency by dispatching sky regional flights then why wouldn't they? Sky dispatch already works so closely daily with air canada, why not remove them all together? Delete the middle man. Again, this is pure speculation. I don't know more than you, I'm just guessing. What I do know is that sky regionals type A dispatch works just fine. Likely Air Canada and Sky regional have been thinking of ways to improve operational efficiencies and this was one idea that made sense. Will it work? Time will tell. For myself I like our dispatch, I have never had an issue. Sure once in awhile I'll catch a mistake but that has been the case at every 705 operation I've worked at.

Why do you think Sky regional is contracting out Air Canada dispatch? Perhaps you have some misconceptions regarding SKy that I can help clear up for you. Maybe you know something I don't.

[concerned]

I would suggest that sky regional is outsourcing or contracting out there dispatch because it will save them money. As AC will have to hire more dispatchers to handle the workload and they will start at the bottom of the payscale which is less than what sky is paying there dispatchers, they can also eliminate a manager and supervisor position as well as the cost of the equipment that they use to complete there job. Will they get the same level of service? NO. Will it save money in the short term? possibly. Will it save money in the long term ? NO.
Alot of airlines start out contracting there dispatch out, to save money, and as they grow then start up there own Dispatch and SOCC so that they will have better control over there own operations and airline. This is probably the first step in getting rid of all employees, until all that is left is the accountant and AC is back flying the E175's again.

Good luck to all employees that are presently affected and the ones that will be affected.

[rudder]

I have absolutely no clue and this is outside of mine and your job description. I could hazard a guess if that helps. I think EVAS and GGN are pretty much 1900 operators? With the exception of the few RJ's GGN operates? Although both of them operate routes that are prone to delays and cancellations due to weather, the loads are likely recoverable with an additional sector or two added when weather improves. I would guess that for that reason Air Canada dispatch does not need to work as closely with GGN or EVAS. So for Air Canada to dispatch their flights doesn't make sense, you don't see AC sending a '67 to Moncton to cover a backlog of passengers traveling to Halifax. Jazz has a much larger route network and fleet compared to sky regional, maybe financially it is cheaper to dispatch themselves instead of contracting to AC. AC would likely have to add considerable man power and resources to dispatch for jazz. Sky regional is unique for two reasons that I see. The fleet size is relatively small and the route network is demanding, high loads plus difficult seasonal weather plus saturated airports. Often daily, flights are delayed into airports like LGA, ORD, and EWR. Not because the operator is doing a poor job but because the airports are very busy, compounded with demanding seasonal weather. This winter I have seen the 67 in LGA twice in an attempt to recover the passengers from many cancelled or delayed Sky Regional, Air Canada, and Jazz flights, again not at the fault of the operator. If Air Canada can improve operational efficiency by dispatching sky regional flights then why wouldn't they? Sky dispatch already works so closely daily with air canada, why not remove them all together? Delete the middle man. Again, this is pure speculation. I don't know more than you, I'm just guessing. What I do know is that sky regionals type A dispatch works just fine. Likely Air Canada and Sky regional have been thinking of ways to improve operational efficiencies and this was one idea that made sense. Will it work? Time will tell. For myself I like our dispatch, I have never had an issue. Sure once in awhile I'll catch a mistake but that has been the case at every 705 operation I've worked at.

Why do you think Sky regional is contracting out Air Canada dispatch? Perhaps you have some misconceptions regarding SKy that I can help clear up for you. Maybe you know something I don't.

You seem to be confusing operational aspects that are dealt with by the 'commercial' department vs the operational departments (flight operations and dispatch). What plane flies where and what decisions are made to recover from IRROPS are largely determined by commercial - dispatch just generates the flight plan and the pilots just fly the plane.

It is interesting that Skyregional - a Part 705 operator - may no longer operate its own dispatch department. I am trying to come up with another example of this but the only one that comes to mind is AC Rouge (a wholly owned subsidiary of AC). Skyregional has leaned heavily on AC for operational support since its inception and that pattern seems to be continuing. Jazz has also been assigned hundreds of hours of Georgian CPA flying for March because Georgian apparently is unable to fulfill that particular obligation (not the first time that has happened).

As desireable as it may be for some to see an evolution to a more equal distribution of the Express portfolio of flying, it would appear that getting there is not as simple or seamless as expected. For many operators at the Tier 2 level, high employee turnover and entry level experience is an ongoing challenge. Looks like having Jazz around at its current size and capable of providing a full suite of services is proving to be beneficial in providing support and schedule integrity across the entire Express system.