Jazz lands on lights in YYC?

[Oscar]

http://avherald.com/h?article=483ab854&opt=0

A Jazz de Havilland Dash 8-400, registration C-GGOF performing flight QK-8374 from Fort McMurray,AB to Calgary,AB (Canada), landed on Calgary's runway 17R at 21:18L (03:18Z Mar 21st) but struck a right hand runway edge light at touch down. The aircraft returned onto the runway center line and rolled out without further incident.

The Canadian TSB reported maintenance found minor damage to the right hand main gear structure and right hand nacelle.

CYYC 210355Z 15010KT 1/4SM R17R/1600FT/N R17L/2000FT/N R29/1400FT/N -FZDZ FZFG VV003 M00/M01 A2993 RMK FG8 SLP182
CYYC 210300Z 15012KT 1/4SM R17R/1200V1800FT/N R17L/1800FT/N R29/1200FT/N FZFG VV002 M00/M01 A2993 RMK FG8 SLP182

[Illya Kuryakin]

Landings below departure limits can always be tricky things. Something I tend to avoid. But hey, what do I know? Wasn't there.
Illya

[Mig29]

FZDZ and 0 degrees....slight xwind from the left, sliding the aircraft to the right of the runway...wonder what kind of runway friction they had at the time of landing?

[mbav8r]

First of all, who's departure limits was it below? RVOP level of service for 17R is 1200 RVR, 17L is 600. The Q400 at Jazz has a HUD and is able to approach at CAT II limits, possibly Cat III but I don't fly it so I'm not positive but that's irrelevant because they were on the right side which is 1200, and it was at or above at the time.
Secondly, must be nice to be able to avoid landing when the weather meets the approach ban limits. So you're saying your personal limits are above the limits set by the regulator? Good for you!
It's real easy to sit there behind the screen and make comments about another pilots choices, which you do an awful lot, but if you have the experience you say you have and haven't screwed up or had a landing in low vis that drifted on you, you're full of crap.
It's not that difficult to imagine the scenario where you have the visual reference as defined by the AIM and commit to landing only to start drifting from center. When you can only see 6 lights at a time, drift can happen before you realise it's happening, been there. I was there that morning and we landed CAT III, the RVR was 700 and we didn't hit any lights, must've been pure luck I guess.
Bottom line is, it could of been a gust and I've grown somewhat tired your high and mighty attitude.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

but if you have the experience you say you have and haven't screwed up or had a landing in low vis that drifted on you, you're full of crap.

I can't speak for Illya but I have made a lot of landings at legal limits and never landed on the runway lights yet...

..and I doubt I ever will seeing as I am retired now.

I could be wrong but it seems to me the same people here are real quick to defend any Jazz unusual event.

[Shiny Side Up]

I always have to wonder if when some of these incidents happen, if these are some of the same pilots that when flying smaller airplanes over the years, have been the scourge of runway infrastructure. I've discovered that over the years many pilots have an low bar for what they consider a "good" landing.

[Jack Klumpus]

Landings below departure limits can always be tricky things. Something I tend to avoid. But hey, what do I know? Wasn't there.
Illya

Come on dude, not everyone's flying a king air. Some of us actually have to do some work for a living

By the way, that weather is nothing for a Q. Either or without HUD, it's up to CATII certified.

[trey kule]

By the way...nothing for a Q.....but might have been a bit much for the pilots!

I understand we all have the odd oopsie..it happens...but lets recognize them for what they are, or we are bound to repeat them.

[Illya Kuryakin]

By the way...nothing for a Q.....but might have been a bit much for the pilots!

I understand we all have the odd oopsie..it happens...but lets recognize them for what they are, or we are bound to repeat them.

It was obviously outside the comfort level of the pilots, or we wouldn't be having this wee chat. Perhaps there is an attraction between Jazz Dashes, and lights?
The winds shouldn't have been an issue. 20 degrees off at 10-12 kts. Easy peasy, right? The ceiling was 200-300. Not usually an issue. And I e done many. Most of us have. The 1/4 mile? Well, that's below my limits (not have HUD, not good to CATII) and I would have gone elsewhere. Different strokes. Combine the 1/4 mile with the 200 foot ceiling, which we just don't get very often, anywhere, and skullduggery might be afoot? I think autoland would work here? Does the Q have autoland? It's hard to tell how close to centreline you are here.
Anyway....nobody got hurt.
Illya

[rxl]

But hey, what do I know? Wasn't there.
Illya

EXACTLY ... something we should all consider before making public comment/judgement on someone else's misfortune.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

So where does misfortune fit in, is it another description for accident, incident?

Is misfortune preventable, or is it something we have no control over?

[rxl]

So where does misfortune fit in, is it another description for accident, incident?

Is misfortune preventable, or is it something we have no control over?

I refer to it as misfortune because like Ilya says - what do I know, I wasn't there.

[ant_321]

It must be nice to see 1/4 mile and go somewhere else. You wouldn't be able to get much done in my neck of the woods.

[Jack Klumpus]

By the way...nothing for a Q.....but might have been a bit much for the pilots!

I understand we all have the odd oopsie..it happens...but lets recognize them for what they are, or we are bound to repeat them.

It was obviously outside the comfort level of the pilots, or we wouldn't be having this wee chat. Perhaps there is an attraction between Jazz Dashes, and lights?
The winds shouldn't have been an issue. 20 degrees off at 10-12 kts. Easy peasy, right? The ceiling was 200-300. Not usually an issue. And I e done many. Most of us have. The 1/4 mile? Well, that's below my limits (not have HUD, not good to CATII) and I would have gone elsewhere. Different strokes. Combine the 1/4 mile with the 200 foot ceiling, which we just don't get very often, anywhere, and skullduggery might be afoot? I think autoland would work here? Does the Q have autoland? It's hard to tell how close to centreline you are here.
Anyway....nobody got hurt.
Illya

I have a few thousand in the Q, mostly left seat, and we had this weather more than once. We didn't have HUDs, and our fleet was CATII certified. No Q has autoland. We were qualified and certified, so if it's CATII, we went. YYT, YHZ, etc. low vis and 100', no problem. That what training is for. And that's where experience comes in.

No clue and no comment as to what happened in this case.

[teacher]

but if you have the experience you say you have and haven't screwed up or had a landing in low vis that drifted on you, you're full of crap.

I can't speak for Illya but I have made a lot of landings at legal limits and never landed on the runway lights yet...

..and I doubt I ever will seeing as I am retired now.

I could be wrong but it seems to me the same people here are real quick to defend any Jazz unusual event.

With all due respect . it also seems like the same ones are always quick to condemn.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

With all due respect . it also seems like the same ones are always quick to condemn.

There is a vast difference between condemning and questioning why a airline crew of two would land off the runway.

In other words what unusual situation caused the airplane to get that far off the center line at a major airport?

I know....

.....asking such a question is not acceptable here on an aviation forum.

Conversely we are also the flying public and also travel on airlines as passengers..

[Johnny#5]

another thread full of pontificating has-beens and could've beens....

[rxl]

another thread full of pontificating has-beens and could've beens....

Rodger that J5.

[KAG]

What needs to be taken away from this is how an experienced crew made this mistake and what can we learn from it so others don't repeat it. This isn't much of an excuse but humans make mistakes. We're paid not to, and our ego demand we don't, but sadly we do. So learn what we can, and not repeat it.
Glad no one was hurt.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

What needs to be taken away from this is how an experienced crew made this mistake and what can we learn from it so others don't repeat it. This isn't much of an excuse but humans make mistakes. We're paid not to, and our ego demand we don't, but sadly we do. So learn what we can, and not repeat it.
Glad no one was hurt.

Exactly:

And making comments about has been's and could have been's does not change the fact that Canada's major carrier is having what seems to be to many of these accidents.

Why not discuss why these CFIT accidents are happening, is it equipment failure or crew failure?

[Pop n Fresh]

Is this going to result in a "runway lights repair fee" on airline tickets soon? Once Jazz implements it everyone else will jump the band wagon.

[mbav8r]

., the problem is not the message, it's the delivery. Try delivering the message with less condescention and maybe people will respond more receptively.

[biatch]

Jazz Q are Cat 3/A.

People, Jazz has hit runway lights, Westjet has hit runway lights, AC has hit runway lights. Actually AC has also disrupted local power prior to hitting runway lights. It's not attributable to a specific airline. This stuff happens and will continue to happen from time to time.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Jazz Q are Cat 3/A.

People, Jazz has hit runway lights, Westjet has hit runway lights, AC has hit runway lights. Actually AC has also disrupted local power prior to hitting runway lights. It's not attributable to a specific airline. This stuff happens and will continue to happen from time to time.

Which makes it okay I mean, who does the flying public think they are? The airlines are getting them closer and closer to the terminal?
Nobody's bleeding, or breaking bones
Want perfection? Fly Quantas! Those guys know where the runways are!
C'Mon Man. Close counts in horse shoes, hand grenades, and landings!
Illya

[biatch]

You don't get it.