Summit Ramp

[digits_]

What if, what if, what if. This game can be played all day long.

What if you do your flight instructor rating on the promise of a job, the school goes tits up?

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if the 703 that hires you to fly, goes tits up?

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if you do everything right, get to the airline, put in your right seat time, and they go tits up?

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if there is another SARS, or 9/11, or....

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if you work the ramp and the company goes tits up ?

You have lost X years of your life/career without anything to show for it.

[Illya Kuryakin]

What if, what if, what if. This game can be played all day long.

What if you do your flight instructor rating on the promise of a job, the school goes tits up?

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if the 703 that hires you to fly, goes tits up?

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if you do everything right, get to the airline, put in your right seat time, and they go tits up?

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if there is another SARS, or 9/11, or....

You have additional experience and training so you can go fly someplace else. Also, you have more flying hours now.

What if you work the ramp and the company goes tits up ?

You have lost X years of your life/career without anything to show for it.

Not to stick up for that Donald guy (LOL) but that's a pretty limited response. Limited in scope, even though technically correct.
Illya

[higharctic]

Edit

[Bede]

There are more teachers than teaching positions. They TEACH or supply TEACH until they get on full time.
There are more lawyers than positions. They don't clean law offices, or wash law firm's cars.
Illya

No they don't. When teachers can't find work they volunteer. Both my parents were teachers/principals.

What do surgeons do when they can't find work? (There are almost no jobs in any of the surgical specialties right now). They do fellowships at a fifth of what they could be making.

New plumbers unplug toilets. Electricians pull wrote through conduit. Carpenters carry lumber.

Starting out in any job sucks. Flying is no different.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Bede, they supply teach. If they volunteer, it's at dog rescues. They also serve beer at BP on Arthur St. Check it out.
All plumbers unplug toilets. All carpenters carry lumber....it's what they do, dude.
Illya

[JoeShmoe]

I am actually kinda curious now, Illya, how do you recommend pilots start there career now adays?

I personally like highartics post about staying positive. I get tired of the pilots who can do nothing but complain.

[Cat Driver]

I get tired of the pilots who can do nothing but complain.

I think what Illia is doing is just commenting on how low the industry has sunk for pilot employment.

Why would he complain when he is very satisfied with his own position in aviation?

[JoeShmoe]

You have a very good point. Do you not see how people could find it annoying when your telling everyone that my job is fantastic and I love my life, and then in the next post telling everyone that you should avoid anyplace that will hire you with 200hrs? You can pay for an instructor rating which in my mind is equivalent to buying a job, or you can slog it out on the ramp. These are the options I know about I just want to know if you or Illya have a constructive recommendation for a first job.

[Cat Driver]

These are the options I know about I just want to know if you or Illya have a constructive recommendation for a first job.

I can't answer for Illia but I have been out of the aviation scene in Canada for decades and don't really know any Canadian operators.

As to working the ramp that also is something I have no experience in because when I started flying companies hired pilots to fly not work the ramp.

This ramp thing is relatively new and exists because there are to many pilots and not enough flying jobs.

[phillyfan]

"All plumbers unplug toilets. All carpenters carry lumber"

Thank you for proving the ramp side of the argument. Plumbers and Carpenters both have extensive apprenticeship programs. 7200hrs for a Carpenter's ticket. 5 years/8000hrs for a Plumbers Ticket. All of a sudden a year of learning the "Pilot" trade does not seem so bad, considering a neat Blue Book can be had in a few months and with 200 hours.

[angry inch]

Aviation has it's own kind of uniqueness... It's different than the trades. After 5 or more years of experience, no carpenter or Plumber would accept 1st year level wages to move on to a "Bigger & Better" company... Truth is the new company would be headhunting for experienced guys. Even the National EI system doesn't require a skilled person to revert back to accepting entry level wages after being paid a certain wage based on experience... I have only been in this biz for 15 yrs & I never even considered a non flying job for my first job as a licensed Commercial Pilot... maybe I just got lucky.

[shimmydampner]

If you've been in the industry for 15 years then you should know beyond a doubt that there are far more 200 hour pilots than there are flying jobs for 200 hour pilots and that you absolutely did get lucky.

[angry inch]

I can tell you there was a lot more to it than just luck... I wish the OP all the best if they decide to apply for a rampie gig.

[Blueontop]

You can pay for an instructor rating which in my mind is equivalent to buying a job

With that logic I suppose paying for a commercial license is equivalent to paying for a flying job as well, paying for a float rating for a float flying job is also equivalent?

[godsrcrazy]

You can pay for an instructor rating which in my mind is equivalent to buying a job

With that logic I suppose paying for a commercial license is equivalent to paying for a flying job as well, paying for a float rating for a float flying job is also equivalent?

The list goes on. Most people do pay for their own float rating as they do their IFR rating. I say just go get your commercial license on a 150 go apply everywhere you possibly can. Insure you tell them you will only take a direct entry flying job. Then sit on your but at home and wait for the phone to ring off the hook with job offers.

[rigpiggy]

"All plumbers unplug toilets. All carpenters carry lumber"

Thank you for proving the ramp side of the argument. Plumbers and Carpenters both have extensive apprenticeship programs. 7200hrs for a Carpenter's ticket. 5 years/8000hrs for a Plumbers Ticket. All of a sudden a year of learning the "Pilot" trade does not seem so bad, considering a neat Blue Book can be had in a few months and with 200 hours.

Yes but an apprentice will make a living wage to start. As a 2nd yr Apprentice I made 25$/hr 20 years ago. Should have finished it, but like my university education it took 2nd fiddle to flying.


Dumb as a post I am

[+RA]

Hoping to stay on topic:

How long is it from ramp to flight-line these days? I'm just hoping for a rough estimation of what to expect if hired.

[flynfiddle]

My own random thoughts ...

If you are worried about starting on the ramp for Summit, it going tits up and having nothing to show for X amount of time ... ummm yeah I wouldn't worry too much about it.

The company is not the same company it was even a year ago, they seem to be moving in a different direction so some of the experiences Donald mentions may not exist at that company any more. Having said that, the range of experience to be gained is still significant and exciting.

I personally have not worked for Summit/ASW but I know many who do and I can tell you they're a great of guys from bottom to top, in fact most of senior management started their careers as rampies or apprentices.

As for the whole starting on the ramp debate .. I don't know, I kinda see both sides of the argument but in the end waiting for a direct entry flying job will almost certainly take you longer than sucking it up and working the ramp for 1-2 years.

What if someone told you "take this ramp job and 3-4 years from now you could be FO on a passenger jet", would you take that ramp job at Summit? Ask around

About 2 years ago I got a call from an old friend, his son was finishing up flying school and he wanted to know if I could get him a flying job, I explained that up here, rampie is the entry level job and there was a spot if he wanted it. He passed on the job but a month later his buddy came up, took the job and is now getting checked out. To my knowledge the other fella is still looking for a job.

I started on the ramp 11 years ago, I've had a good career so far, no regrets.

Good luck.


Good luck