new 2 crew member rule

[stopsquawk]

I flew with a 705 operator that had security procedures requiring 2 crew members in the cockpit at all times 10 years ago! We had only one flight attendant, so there was no crew member in the cabin during a pilot "comfort" break. This was mandated by the company security regulations, the COM and SOP. I thought this was a common practice among all 705 passenger operators in Canada. I find it hard to believe there are 705 passenger operators that did not have a similar SOP. We were not permitted to discuss these security arrangements outside of the company.

Regulators and airlines seem to be falling over themselves with knee-jerk announcing changes to regulations and procedures I the past few days. I was shocked to read that major airlines in Canada were announcing changes to procedures that I thought were already in place. I would never have been comfortable leaving the cockpit, locked, with only one pilot inside. This wasn't to guard against the possibility of a psychopath in the cockpit necessarily, but to guard against the possible incapacitation of the single pilot. The end result of either scenario would have been catastrophic.

Can others involved in 705 passenger operations shed some light on this? What procedures have been in use up to now? Are the airlines making announcements just to calm the flying public?

[tbaylx]

I flew with a 705 operator that had security procedures requiring 2 crew members in the cockpit at all times 10 years ago! We had only one flight attendant, so there was no crew member in the cabin during a pilot "comfort" break. This was mandated by the company security regulations, the COM and SOP. I thought this was a common practice among all 705 passenger operators in Canada. I find it hard to believe there are 705 passenger operators that did not have a similar SOP. We were not permitted to discuss these security arrangements outside of the company.

Regulators and airlines seem to be falling over themselves with knee-jerk announcing changes to regulations and procedures I the past few days. I was shocked to read that major airlines in Canada were announcing changes to procedures that I thought were already in place. I would never have been comfortable leaving the cockpit, locked, with only one pilot inside. This wasn't to guard against the possibility of a psychopath in the cockpit necessarily, but to guard against the possible incapacitation of the single pilot. The end result of either scenario would have been catastrophic.

Can others involved in 705 passenger operations shed some light on this? What procedures have been in use up to now? Are the airlines making announcements just to calm the flying public?

We weren't required to have more than 1 pilot in the flight deck because in the event of a pilot incapacitation there are procedures in place that allow crew members to get in quite quickly. The issue is that if the remaining pilot in the flight deck doesn't want you to get back in he can override the entry and prevent anyone from accessing the flight deck. It's never been a problem in Canada and rarely elsewhere.
Now the procedures have changed to require a F/A or whoever else up front when one pilot leaves the FD. The Americans have already had this procedure in place, it wasn't' mandated in Europe or Canada until now so few airlines actually did this, those that did have that procedure in place were doing it voluntarily on their own initiative.

[stopsquawk]

I see your point. I should have mentioned that the aircraft I flew had a mechanical dead bolt on the cockpit door, and not an electrical lock, so there was absolutely no way you could enter the cockpit when the door was locked. There was no magic code. The electronic door override would work in the case of a incapacitated crew member only.

[tbaylx]

Ah in that case I think you'll the standard is a second crew member must be in the flight deck if one pilot leaves if there is no way to access in the event of incapacitation. Most of the aircraft have electronic key pad entry and that isn't an issue.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Installing as porta potty would be a cheaper alternative.
Illya

[Thunderbyrd]

What does this do to Combi aircraft where the cabin is seperated from the cockpit by bulkheads?

[meflypretty]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the Air Egypt accident a few years back. Very similar, except there were two crew in the cockpit. The Captain trying to recover while the FO shut off the engines and sabotaged the controls. Having another person in the cockpit only makes it slightly more difficult.

[dangerousdan]

.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the Air Egypt accident a few years back. Very similar, except there were two crew in the cockpit. The Captain trying to recover while the FO shut off the engines and sabotaged the controls. Having another person in the cockpit only makes it slightly more difficult.

I did.