Air Canada Accident in YHZ

[mbav8r]

Wow, you're a real bright individual, following your logic why even have seat belts, idiot manufacturer and regulators, don't they know you have an expectation to arrive safely, without ever evacuating for any reason, ever! If there is an idiot in this case, it's the antagonist poster who goes by idillya.
For those who choose to travel to the great white north with the expectation you will change in the airport, there is a reason we practice evacuations in simulator training, every 6 months, I'll give you a hint, it's not because it never happens. A stuck brake and blown tire could necessitate one, just FYI.
If I were AC, I'd be looking to sue you, illya, for your slanderous remarks, without any basis of facts. For all you or anyone knows thus far, it could have been wind shear or mechanical but you want to crucify the airline and pilots, yep you're the idiot and go ahead and sue me, I believe I coulld defend my position quite easily.

[av8ts]

Even though the Jazz Q400 is equipped with duel FMS/GPS because this is a LOC based approach it would have been done using LOC and step down. LOC based approaches cannot be flown using GPS

Sorry, I fly the Q400 and we can fly a LOC approach with vertical guidance from the FMS, no step down required. The FMS uses LOC steering and provides a pseudo glideslope using nav sources from GNSS and INS.

My memory is not what it used to be. Your right the Classic has to do a traditional step down when doing LOC approaches but not the Q

[Eric Janson]

Also, Air Canada has numerous checks throughout the descent and approach when correct altimeter settings are confirmed. To have 29.92 is just about as unlikely as a meteor knocking them out of the sky on short final.

This wasn't at Air Canada but I was sitting on the jumpseat watching as my 2 colleagues forgot to set the altimeter. I finally had to say something at glideslope intercept. Numerous checks here too - but it happened anyway.

Glad nobody was seriously hurt.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Wow, you're a real bright individual, following your logic why even have seat belts, idiot manufacturer and regulators, don't they know you have an expectation to arrive safely, without ever evacuating for any reason, ever! If there is an idiot in this case, it's the antagonist poster who goes by idillya.
For those who choose to travel to the great white north with the expectation you will change in the airport, there is a reason we practice evacuations in simulator training, every 6 months, I'll give you a hint, it's not because it never happens. A stuck brake and blown tire could necessitate one, just FYI.
If I were AC, I'd be looking to sue you, illya, for your slanderous remarks, without any basis of facts. For all you or anyone knows thus far, it could have been wind shear or mechanical but you want to crucify the airline and pilots, yep you're the idiot and go ahead and sue me, I believe I coulld defend my position quite easily.

Good plan. Sue me baby, sue me. Must have been a blown tire, or a stuck brake that caused them to hit the ground about 900 feet short. Yup, that's it. A stuck brake.
Guess the passengers should adhere to mbav8r's dress code. I've never heard it on the cabin announcements "Folks, please put your shoes and coats on, because there is no guarentee the Captain will get you all the way to the terminal today. He may have to take out some wiring on short final....
Good call
Illya

[North Shore]

Re: Shoes off.

I seem to dimly remember something about shoes off before you hit the escape slides?

Besides that, every time I've been tempted to fly in sandals or shorts, I imagine trying to evacuate through a wrecked fuselage....

[HiFlyChick]

I'm shaking my head at how harsh some people are about these poor people standing around in the snowstorm... So yes, probably some of them had on inappropriate clothes, but others would have been dressed normally - do all of you critics fly in a snowsuit? I know I don't - I wear jeans, shoes, not usually boots, and a blouse with maybe a sweater, but often the cabin is so sweltering that I take the sweater off. It was -6 (indicated temp - that doesn't even include wind chill) and snowing like crazy, for goodness sake! The average pax, dressed appropriately for a room temperature cabin would still have been freezing in those conditions. And imagine people with infants - I would've been frantic if I had a baby out in that storm!

And just an aside to the ARFF guy who posted - the emergency responders did a great job - when I said the pax should've been taken care of earlier, I meant the airport should've been trying to help them, not the firefighters. The time I heard was over an hour (one passenger interviewed said about an hour and a quarter). Maybe the pax ran towards the fence, in which case, it would've been difficult to get to them, but I still think someone could've directed them away from the airplane and along towards the FBOs along alpha taxiway (which parallels 05/24). Hopefully HIAA will re-assess their emergency plan with this scenario in mind.

[HavaJava]

Also, Air Canada has numerous checks throughout the descent and approach when correct altimeter settings are confirmed. To have 29.92 is just about as unlikely as a meteor knocking them out of the sky on short final.

This wasn't at Air Canada but I was sitting on the jumpseat watching as my 2 colleagues forgot to set the altimeter. I finally had to say something at glideslope intercept. Numerous checks here too - but it happened anyway.

Glad nobody was seriously hurt.

Out of curiosity, did that happen overseas somewhere with a low transition level? I could see how that could happen in a high workload environment with a low transition level. In Canada with the transition level at FL180 I think the odds of missing the multiple checks and double checks would be highly unlikely.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It made me so happy to hear they were a wee bit chilly in their flip flops, shorts and t-shirts outside in a snow storm after evacuating! Every time I see these people wandering through the airports showing off their tans and so proudly letting us all know they were down south when it's -30 outside I laugh and think do they ever consider the chance of a rapid de-planement or evacuation when they dress themselves for their flight or are they more concerned about showing off their tans to the rest of us?

Air Canada should hire this person as their public relations expert.

I'm sure the travelling public would be very happy to know pilots see them as nothing more than an irritation rather than the people who they work for.

[Ah_yeah]

This thread sure has attracted a lot of unemployed wankers living in their mom's basement.

[pprune_forever]

Courtesy of Michael de Adder

[CD]

We have discussed this before (AvCanada: Questions re: inflatable door slides and cockpit doors), but this is a good time to bring this information up again:

Passenger T.I.P.S. - Before You Go: What to wear

Dress appropriately for the conditions you may encounter. You may have to go outside to get on the airplane so shorts, tank tops and sandals are not likely to give you any protection against the elements of a typical Canadian winter.

The clothes you are wearing can also play a significant role in your safety. People wear synthetic blend fabrics because they are easy to maintain and do not wrinkle when spending a long time seated. However, these fabrics ignite quickly, shrink, melt and continue to burn even after the heat source is removed. In the unlikely event that the aircraft is evacuated, even pantyhose contribute to injuries, as they melt and cause burns from the friction generated with contact on the slide.

* Clothing made of natural fibres such as cotton, wool, denim and leather offer the best protection during an evacuation or fire. Synthetic fibres (rayon, poly/cotton and nylon, including pantyhose, wigs, hairpieces, scarves, ties and underwear) can become very hot and melt causing severe burns.
* Avoid leaving large areas of the body uncovered. Steer clear of shorts or skirts because they do not cover extremities. Wear non-restrictive clothing as this allows you greater movement.

Wearing suitable footwear can prevent the most common injuries to feet during accidents or emergencies. Keep your footwear on during the flight. In an emergency, finding your shoes will probably be one of the last things on your mind. Unprotected feet can slow departure from the airplane once outside. Imagine trying to walk through jet fuel, possibly on fire, broken glass, or sharp metal fragments without shoes to protect your feet.

* Wear fully enclosed low-heeled shoes or boots that have laces or straps.
* Avoid sandals and high-heeled dress shoes. High-heeled dress shoes will have to be removed before using the escape slide.

[Liquid Charlie]

Out of curiosity, did that happen overseas somewhere with a low transition level? I could see how that could happen in a high workload environment with a low transition level. In Canada with the transition level at FL180 I think the odds of missing the multiple checks and double checks would be highly unlikely.

Likely not since the procedure in Europe is to set your altimeter as soon as you are cleared below or above transition - not at actual transition level or altitude.

[Old fella]

Been following this topic regarding this unfortunate incident since I live in this neck of the woods. Nothing to add of course as don't work for AC and know nothing about A320 operation or any airline for that matter. One observation though from posted commentary if I may as I thought Air Canada being the biggest airline here has all the latest technology in all their planes to fly Published GPS approaches and those WAAS LPV which I understand is like an ILS with the lower DH. In reading Nav Canada documents LPV approaches are all over the place now.

[rudder]

TSB says CFIT:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/collision ... 00788.html

[FICU]

I'm sure the travelling public would be very happy to know pilots see them as nothing more than an irritation rather than the people who they work for.

I take it you fly in flip flops and shorts in the winter?

Not an irritation at all, more like comedy. They can wear whatever they want but they will face the consequences for lacking simple common sense as did the pax in YHZ and they have only themselves to blame.

It would be a sad day if an airline had to force common sense on people by implementing dress codes appropriate for the weather conditions.

BTW... I also laugh at them when they are hauling their luggage out of the terminal in shorts and flip flops in - 30s wind chill.

[GyvAir]

TSB says CFIT:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/collision ... 00788.html

Where does it say that?

[FICU]

TSB says crash so far. Nothing about CFIT.

[rudder]

I stand corrected. Collision with terrain.

[Ah_yeah]

If the investigation reveals windshear, its hardly "controlled" flight into terrain.
The investigation will take months and will be very thorough, rest assured. The media frenzy will have moved on, which is good because some of the "reporting" is tough to read. Unless one has flown this approach on the 320, one should qualify their opinion. That approach is doable (not easy) even with wx @ minimums, but throw in a critical failure or LLWS near said minimums, it could be hard to escape.
BTW, People should wear shoes if for no other reason that pax puke on floors all the time....I've seen people walk into the lav in barefoot....ewwwww.

[FICU]

I stand corrected. Collision with terrain.

No worries... I sure hope it isn't CFIT!

[timel]

People don't have manners anymore.

BTW, People should wear shoes if for no other reason that pax puke on floors all the time....I've seen people walk into the lav in barefoot....ewwwww.

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[GyvAir]

I would hazard a guess that those posting here defending the passengers rights/decisions to leave their shoes off for landing and wear clothing completely inadequate for the weather at their destination would also be the first to chastise and ridicule the people that you occasionally see on the side of the highway standing miserably beside their broken or wrecked car or bus in the middle of a Canadian winter, dressed appropriately for nothing colder than their living room/office/night club.
I’ve never had to evacuate an aircraft as a passenger and I don’t expect to ever have to. I do however anticipate the possibility, making sure I have my shoes on and tied, my wallet, passport and any other small article that I really wouldn’t want to leave behind on my person and my coat on if applicable and/or practical. As previously mentioned, it’s only common sense and doesn’t even require any extra effort on my part.

I've seen people walk into the lav in barefoot....ewwwww.

That... is disgusting.

[boxcut]

What was the approach ban for RWY 05 in CYHZ?

[av8ts]

On the front page of the National Post a J class passenger says he was logged onto the Internet on final and checking the weather. Maybe he caused a navigation issue and caused the plane to crash

[Old fella]

Didn't take long - what kept them

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... -1.3015519