WJ vs. AC......performance

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dukepoint
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WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by dukepoint »

I'm hearing rumblings that Air Canada outstripped Westjet in ASM increace (year over year) by double, and increaced RPM over Westjet by 3 fold. AC also very nearly matched Westjet In Return on Investment Capital (ROIC)....total revenue at AC still 3x higher. Nearly 100 Widebodies at Air Canada by the end of 2017......beating my initial prediction of 95 Widebodies by 2019. A similar number of 737 Max's with option and firm orders being about equal to WJ's entire fleet.....not including the EMJ replacement.

Don't mean to start an arguement, as these are just the facts.

I may be accused of fanning the flames a bit though;-)

Lets get a conversation going!

I personally remember Bedoe back in '03, refering to Air Canada as the "bankrupt monopoly" with billions in market cap sitting there for the taking. I wonder if he made a prediction then about the situation 12 years into the future, he'd have seen this.....or reversed roles......just sayin'.

Whats going on at "Team Teal?" BTW....... Its been real quiet. Make some noise!

DP.
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mikeecho
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by mikeecho »

Q1 Operating Margin

- WS - 16.91%
- AC - 3.4%

There are some good things starting to happen at AC, but when it comes to profitability, they rank the lowest of the NA majors.
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dukepoint
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by dukepoint »

mikeecho wrote:Q1 Operating Margin

- WS - 16.91%
- AC - 3.4%

There are some good things starting to happen at AC, but when it comes to profitability, they rank the lowest of the NA majors.
Where did you get that data??? Source???? Quoting percentages is nice, and looks good, but when your comparing it to an organization that is at least three times larger....

If you are talking about EBITAR margin Q1 2015, you're completely wrong by a factor of four.

Refute the data I've given.

Westjet is NOT considered a "Major Carrier" BTW. They're more like a "National" carrier.

Nice to see some activity on this thread....I like kicking hornet nests. :-)

DP.
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leftoftrack
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by leftoftrack »

www.sedar.com this might be one of the worst troll posts I've ever seen
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dukepoint
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by dukepoint »

Is that all you got leftoftrack? I'm trying to kick a little life into dullsville. Where's that Westjet fighting spirit???

Let's start a conversation. I posted nothing but facts.....if you have other info, post it for all to see. One of us will be wrong, and if it's me, I'll apologize and recheck my sources..... for the third time.

Clive was pretty arrogant in his prediction of how much of the Canadian market share was his for the taking when he started the whole operation..........now that we're coming up hard on 20 years, how did those predictions pan out? I mean, we always knew that there would be two large carriers in Canada.....is Westjets size and ability to create revenue really a special anomaly in the aviation world like he said it was, or are they just that "second" Canadian carrier. Thoughts???

The facts show that WJ is only 1/3 Air Canada's size, both in revenue generated, and ASM capacity. Was this Clive's vision 20 years in? If not, then there may have been a boatload of opportunity lost during the demise of Canadi<n and the bankruptcy exit of AC between 1999 and 2005.

BTW......Not a lot have the interest or savvy to wade through SEDAR reports.

DP.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Old fella »

Beats the shit out of this old fool trying to figure the point of this topic, I mean both airlines provide top notch A+ service to their customers as has been my experience. Yes no doubt, some have preferences on who they fly with for a variety of reasons but that doesn't suggest very much in my view as that is the way it has always been. Blast away!!
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dukepoint
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by dukepoint »

Im not trolling, or trying to start a fight, only an engaging conversation.

My issue is that I have more than a boatload of Westjet stock, but I work for Big Red.

I bought that stock on big promises Clive made more than a decade ago at a shareholder meeting just before AC went into CCAA........I'm dissappointed so far.

Its a strange paradox, but I'll live with it.

I want to hear what Westjetters have to say about AC's performance, and growth over the last few years.......and perhaps get a glimpse of the "new psychy" that lives in the house on Barlow Trail.

DP.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Bede »

I hate feeding the trolls, but the troll keeps begging for food.

What do I think about AC's performace. I am happy. I am happy that my fellow pilots do not need to worry about being furloughed, will have their pensions in tact, and will not need to taste the bitterness of CCAA.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by bmc »

Increasing ASM's simply means they added capacity. While it's important to list ASM and RPM measure for load factor comparison.

Increasing RPM's is not that hard to do. It's easy to fill an airplane. Price it right and people will fly. Making good money is the challenge.

Asking how their yield did YOY will also be misleading. Long haul yield is always lower than short haul yield. If the added capacity is mostly long haul, expect an overall lower yield when blended with the network.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by dukepoint »

Bede wrote:I hate feeding the trolls, but the troll keeps begging for food.

What do I think about AC's performace. I am happy. I am happy that my fellow pilots do not need to worry about being furloughed, will have their pensions in tact, and will not need to taste the bitterness of CCAA.
Come on Bede....you call me a troll.....I've been around longer than that and you know it.

I may be a bit "contraversial", but troll is a bit much, no? Trolls hit then leave.....why will no one engage me?

Why not start a conversation? If you don't like reality then say so, but to resort to name calling is a little childish.

The tables are turning a bit. We've been hearing Westjetters rage for nearly two decades about how they are "a force to be reckoned with", and "unstoppable", and heard many a time how the "culture" was unique, and that AC was a twisted, unionized "uncaring" monster that had to be stopped for the sake of all travelling Canadians.

Where are our respective companies at now???

DP.
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dukepoint
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by dukepoint »

bmc wrote:Increasing ASM's simply means they added capacity. While it's important to list ASM and RPM measure for load factor comparison.

Increasing RPM's is not that hard to do. It's easy to fill an airplane. Price it right and people will fly. Making good money is the challenge.

Asking how their yield did YOY will also be misleading. Long haul yield is always lower than short haul yield. If the added capacity is mostly long haul, expect an overall lower yield when blended with the network.

Yes bmc, I have to agree.

Apples to Oranges comparisons might "muddy the waters" significantly.

Thank you for jumping in.

DP

FWIW....Im not claiming everything is all "sunshine and candy floss" at AC, for the pilots especially. We've seen a tremendous erosion of our wages and serious divisions within the group with the introduction of Rouge and a DC pension. At least you guys still have your dignity intact in that regard.......we don't.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Bede »

Why won't anyone engage you? Because no one cares. I just got a $10,000 profit share (CRA took half). Some guys got $20,000. AC is doing well. It's good times- until oil goes up. Or down. Or something crazy happens.

Right now my concern is with the regional guys and the guys getting laid off.
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Johnny#5
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Johnny#5 »

Are WJ pilots officially unionized yet?
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by privateer »

I was impressed to see AC stock surge today on the news that they were following WJ and removing the middle seat on their Rouge planes (I assume). The two companies are not that same though. It would be like comparing Delta or United, to Alaska or Southwest.

I am curious as to why AC thinks the MAX 900 is going to work for them and WJ didn't order any. I believe brake energy limits were the issue with WJ not ordering them.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by whiteguy »

privateer wrote:I was impressed to see AC stock surge today on the news that they were following WJ and removing the middle seat on their Rouge planes (I assume). The two companies are not that same though. It would be like comparing Delta or United, to Alaska or Southwest.

I am curious as to why AC thinks the MAX 900 is going to work for them and WJ didn't order any. I believe brake energy limits were the issue with WJ not ordering them.
AC isn't really doing the same as WJ with the seats up front. Rouge is reconfiguring the seats and going from 3x3 to 2x2. WJ is leaving the seats 3x3 and then blocking the middle seat in Plus.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by altiplano »

Rouge was blocking the middle seat on the 319 from day 1, what WS is now moving to as rouge goes to a proper J seat.

I think the stock surge was on the pension opt out and share buyback announcement.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by bandaid »

dukepoint wrote:I'm hearing rumblings that Air Canada outstripped Westjet in ASM increace (year over year) by double, and increaced RPM over Westjet by 3 fold. AC also very nearly matched Westjet In Return on Investment Capital (ROIC)....total revenue at AC still 3x higher. Nearly 100 Widebodies at Air Canada by the end of 2017......beating my initial prediction of 95 Widebodies by 2019. A similar number of 737 Max's with option and firm orders being about equal to WJ's entire fleet.....not including the EMJ replacement.

Don't mean to start an arguement, as these are just the facts.

I may be accused of fanning the flames a bit though;-)

Lets get a conversation going!

I personally remember Bedoe back in '03, refering to Air Canada as the "bankrupt monopoly" with billions in market cap sitting there for the taking. I wonder if he made a prediction then about the situation 12 years into the future, he'd have seen this.....or reversed roles......just sayin'.

Whats going on at "Team Teal?" BTW....... Its been real quiet. Make some noise!

DP.
Not too sure what point you are trying to make. Both companies are doing well right now and that is good for the industry, good for the staff and good for the customers.
I think this thread is just your way of trying to rile up the Westjet pilots and employees. I have a question for you, of the two carriers which one has received government money to remain solvent?
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by The Raven »

bandaid wrote:
dukepoint wrote:I'm hearing rumblings that Air Canada outstripped Westjet in ASM increace (year over year) by double, and increaced RPM over Westjet by 3 fold. AC also very nearly matched Westjet In Return on Investment Capital (ROIC)....total revenue at AC still 3x higher. Nearly 100 Widebodies at Air Canada by the end of 2017......beating my initial prediction of 95 Widebodies by 2019. A similar number of 737 Max's with option and firm orders being about equal to WJ's entire fleet.....not including the EMJ replacement.

Don't mean to start an arguement, as these are just the facts.

I may be accused of fanning the flames a bit though;-)

Lets get a conversation going!

I personally remember Bedoe back in '03, refering to Air Canada as the "bankrupt monopoly" with billions in market cap sitting there for the taking. I wonder if he made a prediction then about the situation 12 years into the future, he'd have seen this.....or reversed roles......just sayin'.

Whats going on at "Team Teal?" BTW....... Its been real quiet. Make some noise!

DP.
Not too sure what point you are trying to make. Both companies are doing well right now and that is good for the industry, good for the staff and good for the customers.
I think this thread is just your way of trying to rile up the Westjet pilots and employees. I have a question for you, of the two carriers which one has received government money to remain solvent?
Neither.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by bandaid »

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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by The Raven »

Those were loans, all paid back with interest.
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