Navajo baggage door.

[oldtimer]

Has anyone ever had the nose baggage door come open in flight?
What happens to the door, the flight characteristics, stuff in the compartment.
I have heard of the main cabin door come open and the airplane apparently flies OK as long as passengers or freight stays in the cabin.
I have had the crew door pop open and it is easy enough to close.
I have never had any problem with the nose baggage door but there is always Murphy's law.

[trey kule]

Yes, I know of one case. Pilots said it made lots of noise, but did not affect flight.

It did no damage but did cost several hours of an AMEs time to confirm that there was no damage and double check the latches, warning light system etc, as the Captain apparently was certain it was not pilot error despite ignoring the FOs comment on the takeoff roll that they had a warning light.

A Captain BTW , who was subsequently found to have parker penned about 400 hours.

You wont have a problem if you do a proper walkaround every time, use a prestart checklist, and never ever rush..

[duramaxguy]

I haven't had it come open in the ho, however, I've had it in the Seneca on departure at 400'. Since the prop is in line with the door on the Seneca it basically destroyed the door. I thought the prop was coming apart. Nearly soiled my pants. This was pre baggage door AD with latch only No lock. Seeing as the ho's door is forward of the prop it probably wouldn't be as dramatic, however, if you had some lighter cargo in there I'm sure vaccuum would suck it out and into the prop. One of the reasons I never fly without a deep breath/pause and final walk around before sparking up regardless of how rushed you are.

T

[Flypilot]

I left the back seat belt hanging outside after unloading passengers at night. It makes a lot of noise and damage. Also often wondered what would happen to nose door.

[Rowdy]

I saw photos of one that came unlatched and departed.. went through the prop and then hit the tail. Story goes they shut it down and returned for an uneventful landing. But it looked pretty gnarly.

[HiFlyChick]

Not sure if duramaxguy was referring to an AD on the Seneca or if he meant the one on the Navajo. It should be pretty difficult to make that mistake now that the new lock won't let you take your keys out unless it's locked - course you could always leave the whole thing keys and all hanging there..... yikes! At least it means I can confirm it's closed from the cockpit - I just check the keys are in my pocket.

I've had the main cabin door come open shortly after take-off but not the baggage door. It was no biggie, but wasone of the few times I ever yelled at a passenger - he got up from his seat and was gonna go close it! Scared me so badly I bellowed, "Sir - sit down!!" His wife already had him by the belt and was yanking him back into his seat (And the dumb thing was that I had let the F/O close it and he had been chastised by a senior captain for slamming the door and told he just needed to pull it shut firmly. After that I told him when he was with me I wanted it slammed...)

[the goal is soul]

Has anyone ever had the nose baggage door come open in flight?

Your post reminded me of a case study from a course a few years ago. This may not answer your question directly, but it seems like there has been a fair bit of research and evaluation on this specific issue.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviat ... 038&akey=1

Similar to HiFlyChick's story, it relates that an open door is a persuasive distraction, particularly in a critical phase.

[PositiveRate27]

Not sure if duramaxguy was referring to an AD on the Seneca or if he meant the one on the Navajo. It should be pretty difficult to make that mistake now that the new lock won't let you take your keys out unless it's locked - course you could always leave the whole thing keys and all hanging there..... yikes! At least it means I can confirm it's closed from the cockpit - I just check the keys are in my pocket.

I've had the main cabin door come open shortly after take-off but not the baggage door. It was no biggie, but wasone of the few times I ever yelled at a passenger - he got up from his seat and was gonna go close it! Scared me so badly I bellowed, "Sir - sit down!!" His wife already had him by the belt and was yanking him back into his seat (And the dumb thing was that I had let the F/O close it and he had been chastised by a senior captain for slamming the door and told he just needed to pull it shut firmly. After that I told him when he was with me I wanted it slammed...)

All well and good, unless the AD hasn't been complied with. I had an almost identical scenario a few years ago. Unbeknownst to us, there were said AD's on the door that weren't up to standard. The door was completely destroyed by the prop and the harnesses did quite a number on the fuselage and cockpit window right by my face. It was quite a sobering experience.

Check, double check and triple check your doors on light twins. Many don't have annunciators to back you up.

[HiFlyChick]

...Check, double check and triple check your doors on light twins. Many don't have annunciators to back you up.

And the annunciators are not as sophisticated as on the fancy jets - we actually had one for the main cabin door, but it was a dinky little circuit that would go out if the door itself was closed against the fuselage, even if the latch wasn't fully engaged.

[pelmet]

I flew an aircraft that had two nose doors, belly doors and rear entry doors. I just made it one of those paranoid always double check that all of those multitude of latches were done up every time. I know that I have the occasional frustrating episode of forgetfulness and have misplaced many things so it was inevitable that I would leave a door open unless I became paranoid about it.

Never had a problem but it does mean that occasionally you end up checking things that you know you checked before. Sort of like gear pins. Even though I know that certain stations, never install them, It is on my paranoid list as I don't want to be that guy.

[schnitzel2k3]

Knew a guy once who had the forward door pop open in flight on a C401. Had the engine covers stored in there, they flew out and passed out over the wing and past the tail (thank god...).

Think those doors are similar to the Ho. Same thing, AME's checked, no problem other than a scare, some teasing and a few lost engine tents that probably landed on some cattle.

At least they were warm. The cattle that is.

S.

[HiFlyChick]

Wow - that was a close one - what a disaster that would've been if the covers had've snagged on the wings or tail!

Maybe we should segue this thread into the "Things falling out of airplanes" thread....

Once lost my (expensive prescription) sunglasses out the window of a C172 during a flour bombing contest at a local fly-in may years ago...

[Rookie50]

You wont have a problem if you do a proper walkaround every time, use a prestart checklist, and never ever rush..

Great quote for any pilot. I only fly a single but there's where I slow down, take an extra minute and good look around, and only time I actually use a checklist anymore -- prestart.

If oil cap, fuel caps, covers off, cowl and all doors secure, (and there is fuel in the tanks ) -- hopefully flight will be off to a good start.

[pelmet]

If oil cap, fuel caps, covers off, cowl and all doors secure, (and there is fuel in the tanks ) -- hopefully flight will be off to a good start.

This is all good stuff to check on the final walkaround. One done after the main walkaround which may be before other items are done such as fuel, oil, towbar, etc.

Especially on light aircraft, a final quick walkaround is done just prior to entering the aircraft. It can vary from aircraft type to aircraft type. I usually say it out loud. Fuel caps are on, oil cap is on, no towbar, no chocks, no tiedowns, intake plugs removed, external locks, baggage doors secure, etc and as required for the type.

Turboprop types varied significantly with different types of aircraft and operations with different items geared more toward doors and loadings. It even included on one particular turbine type a close look at the fuel access door as the fuel man in many places left the bill there. Same type had me always check the tail baggage compartment from inside the aircraft via the washroom after I almost got caught by that one. Also tended on the mid size turbo props to do a quick check that aircraft weights per compartment based on the general look of the cargo if possible and a couple of destination labels(had one loading station that repeatedly screwed it up). Plus if there was a box of Dangerous Goods, I took a look for it and made sure that it was secure. Sometimes it was just left perilously loose on top of a bunch of stuff where it could easily move back during acceleration and fall down several feet, yet it had the arrows showing that is was supposed to remain upright. I would jam it among other boxes to hold it tight.

Create a verbal final check for your type. Present employer has a loadmaster for the cargo loading and maintenance outside at every station so it has actually become less items to almost no items on the jet types although cargo locks are on my list if there are empty freight positions. Haven't found anything yet on that front. Although when I do the last minute SOP cabin secure check, I find the galley on the freighter is frequently not secured properly even though it had been left that way after initially checking our meals. Surprisingly, this has been done by other pilots on the crew or are deadheading.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Especially on light aircraft, a final quick walkaround is done just prior to entering the aircraft. It can vary from aircraft type to aircraft type. I usually say it out loud. Fuel caps are on, oil cap is on, no towbar, no chocks, no tiedowns, intake plugs removed, external locks, baggage doors secure, etc and as required for the type.

.

Nothing loose, hanging or dripping is a good rule of thumb.

If any time has elapsed between your DI and when you are ready to go, walk around the aircraft. Once I was out of sight of the airplane ( A Ho ) for maybe 2 minutes to hit the bathroom....it was just enough time for the freight loaders to drive the truck into the side of the nacelle locker

[Jack Klumpus]

Nope, never had the nose baggage door open.

One night, departing some reserve in MB, in a blizzard, after a few hundred feet, the side cockpit door popped open. Of course the airstream wouldn't let it swing open, however it was getting colder and loud. Aviate, navigate, communicate. Let me retract the gear, put the autopilot (SPIFR), and see what I can do about this door.

Gear handle up, gears not coming up. Shit. Autopilot on, not engaging, crap! Kept on fiddling with them, till the gear came up. Autopilot never did work. I tried in vain to close the door, that didn't happen.

Landed in poplar, picked up some customers, and trekked along to the peg. All worked fine on the next leg :$

[CID]

My guess is that there are few replies because a large percentage of people who have experienced an open baggage door on a Navajo are no longer with us.

Captain apparently was certain it was not pilot error despite ignoring the FOs comment on the takeoff roll that they had a warning light.

I have never seen a baggage door warning light on a Navajo. Was this a different airplane or was it an after-market mod?

[awitzke]

Sorry this is probably gong to be huge. I just took it.