"Any conflicting traffic..." Is A Stupid Thing To Say

[Rockie]

This isn't a safety issue - it's a pet peeve. And largely a self correcting one since as a person gains experience they will realize it's superfluous to say and stop saying it on their own. If it hasn't been beaten out of them first by a fire breathing anti-ACTPA crusader.

Really, on a list of top 10 things to worry about this rates in at around #1500.

[awitzke]

Just had a 10 hour day in the Red/Sioux area and I don't think I heard it once. Possibly people have been reading this thread? Haha.

[B208]

This isn't a safety issue - it's a pet peeve. And largely a self correcting one since as a person gains experience they will realize it's superfluous to say and stop saying it on their own. If it hasn't been beaten out of them first by a fire breathing anti-ACTPA crusader.

Really, on a list of top 10 things to worry about this rates in at around #1500.

So why bother commenting on it?

Just had a 10 hour day in the Red/Sioux area and I don't think I heard it once. Possibly people have been reading this thread? Haha.

Dare to dream....

[Rockie]

I wasn't commenting on "it", I was commenting on the unnecessary fuss some people are making out of "it". Wasn't that apparent?

[goingnowherefast]

Are we really arguing about whether we're arguing about something that's worth arguing about?

[B208]

I wasn't commenting on "it", I was commenting on the unnecessary fuss some people are making out of "it". Wasn't that apparent?

If it's not worth commenting on, then the fuss people are making about is even less worth commenting on.

However, I can see this from your point of view. Someone who spends most of their time in high level controlled airspace and doesn't have to monitor 126.7 most likely doesn't get this issue. In fact, this issue really has minimal to nil effect on their day what so ever.

[Rockie]

There's plenty of things we hear at high level as well particularly on guard, and we can hear it from any airplane in a 200 mile radius from ours from ground level up which is a lot of airspace. I just don't let it ruin my day like some people here.

Maybe some people just need to find a less stressful line of work if that's the kind of thing that drives them into a mini-rage.

[B208]

We monitor guard at high altitude also. There is no where near the amount a chatter on guard as there is on 126.7, 122.8 etc...

Maybe some people just need to find a less stressful line of work if that's the kind of thing that drives them into a mini-rage.

Hmmm.... you really don't like it when people don't share your point of view.

[Rockie]

We monitor guard at high altitude also. There is no where near the amount a chatter on guard as there is on 126.7, 122.8 etc...

Maybe some people just need to find a less stressful line of work if that's the kind of thing that drives them into a mini-rage.

Hmmm.... you really don't like it when people don't share your point of view.

Do I come across as angry that you don't share my point of view? Do you know what my point of view is on this?

The title of this thread comes pretty close to it actually although "stupid" is even too strong. I'd have to say "ambivalent" pretty much covers the emotional extreme I reach on ACTPA and even the "ON GUAAARD" antics the whole world must listen to south of the border. "Confusion" describes my reaction when I see how torqued up a simple radio call gets some people. You guys need to find your inner zen so you don't end up grinding your teeth down to stubs from simply listening on the radio.

My point of view B208 is that you should relax. Look out the window and enjoy the wonderful thing you do for a living and don't let extremely insignificant things like this ruin your day.

[Liquid Charlie]

Whatever happened to the discussions of sex and the notches on our bed posts --

[trampbike]

"Traffic vicinity Swift Current,
Bandit 21,
blue Harvard II military aircraft,
15 miles North-East of Swift Current,
500' AGL,
eastbound towards Chaplin lake,
Bandit 21"

This is what my comms would sound like while flying nav out of YMJ.
I never used "any conflicting traffic please advise", because I think it is useless and nobody cared that I didn't. I wasn't getting pissed at any instructors or lead aircraft that would use it though. There's a few things I can think about that matter a bit more than that when it comes to flying safely and being effective.

Cheers,
Oli

[B208]

Do I come across as angry that you don't share my point of view?

No, more like peavey.

My point of view B208 is that you should relax.

I am max relaxed. Telling people that they are fouling up causes me no stress at all.

[donnybrook]

Yesterday I heard "any conflicting traffic in the pattern please advise". This was after a call asking if there were people flying in the pattern as he was flying in.

[Rockie]

Telling people that they are fouling up causes me no stress at all.

How exactly are they fouling up? Transmissions should be concise but not must be, and who's to say ACTPA isn't concise if it's information whoever utters it on the radio wants to know? It might not fit your definition of concise or mine, but so what. Is your radio work so sterling perfect no one could tell you to cut it back a little? I know mine isn't at all times and I try real hard.

Say, you're not one of the guard police too are you?

[Liquid Charlie]

My last post on this subject -- really from my continued "coming home" experience with my grass roots beginning in NWO I have come to the conclusion that it's not what you say but how you say it - I would hazard a guess that on any given day in the 126.7/MF madhouse in NWO, Northern Ontario and Manitoba over 50% of the xmissions are useless and unintelligible because of poor enunciation, poor planning (like starting your xmission with your destination - ie "bum fuk traffic" because most people don't pick up on a xmission on the first few words because of all the traffic) - using "local terminology -- (like ATTA and KASH) taking in a unnatural voice and the biggest one talking too fraking fast and doing bionic freq switch xmits not waiting to actually see if there is someone there just to fill your perceived SOP requirements or worse still just because everyone else does it -- monkey see monkey do -- and don't get me started on the local slang -- LMFAOOOOOO -- yup this is what the real garbage is

[newbiewings]

Here's my $0.02 on ACTPA.

You can say what you like because you're not going to hurt my feelings at all. Since I've only done ground school and no flight training, I maybe don't deserve to say anything.

I'm sure ACTPA is annoying. I'd liken it to fingernails on a blackboard if I had to hear it on the radio while trying to pilot an aircraft. But, is it really worth all this time and threadspace to discuss it's relative worth/worthlessness?

Here's a thought for you to consider. What if an ACTPA call prevented a collision? Would it still be as annoying?

I'm wondering that point now, because of the mid-air collision near Ft. McMurray a couple of weeks ago. Would the dreaded ACTPA call have prevented it from happening?

My neighbour was the student pilot in the flight school 172 that was torn apart by the 185 on floats. I've been told that the tower at YMM is closed on Sunday, and traffic is handled by Cold Lake. The transmission delays may have played a part in this tragedy. If either of the two pilots had transmitted an ACTPA call, would we still have two people alive, and two planes flying?

I'm sure it's still a sore point with the seasoned pilots.

[HiFlyChick]

Here's a thought for you to consider. What if an ACTPA call prevented a collision? Would it still be as annoying?

I'm wondering that point now, because of the mid-air collision near Ft. McMurray a couple of weeks ago. Would the dreaded ACTPA call have prevented it from happening?

First off, very sorry newbiewings about your neighbour, but no, an ACTPA call wouldn't have made any difference. A position call might have (don't know what was in fact said on air at that time, but adding ACTPA to the end wouldn't have made any difference). Either you hear a guy's call and respond or you don't. Him asking you to respond doesn't determine whether you do or not - you either think there's a conflict and you do, or you think there's no conflict and you don't. Or you are afraid of the radio and stupidly decide to take care of things yourself and not call when you're supposed to - in which case, someone telling you to call still won't make a difference.....

I think the reason why we're having this vigorous discussion is that ACTPA is indeed a pet peeve, and if we can eliminate an on-air annoyance then it's worth a shot. When I hear an ACTPA call I personally feel like it's someone who doesn't have much experience - you don't tend to hear commercial pilots using it around here. That being said, just because someone is flying for a living doesn't mean they know how to do a good call - it may be a brand new F/O. I have on more than one occasion cringed when my F/O made a positively amateurish call, but what can you do - someone fresh out of flight school needs to get out in the real world and learn by doing (and hearing others).

Saying ACTPA is to me akin to the guys who start every call with "And...." It's easy to start doing that when someone you're flying with is doing it all the time, too. My husband broke me of that bad habit by saying that it was really just another way of saying "Duuhhhhh..."

[Rookie50]

Here's my $0.02 on ACTPA.

You can say what you like because you're not going to hurt my feelings at all. Since I've only done ground school and no flight training, I maybe don't deserve to say anything.

I'm sure ACTPA is annoying. I'd liken it to fingernails on a blackboard if I had to hear it on the radio while trying to pilot an aircraft. But, is it really worth all this time and threadspace to discuss it's relative worth/worthlessness?

Here's a thought for you to consider. What if an ACTPA call prevented a collision? Would it still be as annoying?

I'm wondering that point now, because of the mid-air collision near Ft. McMurray a couple of weeks ago. Would the dreaded ACTPA call have prevented it from happening?

My neighbour was the student pilot in the flight school 172 that was torn apart by the 185 on floats. I've been told that the tower at YMM is closed on Sunday, and traffic is handled by Cold Lake. The transmission delays may have played a part in this tragedy. If either of the two pilots had transmitted an ACTPA call, would we still have two people alive, and two planes flying?

I'm sure it's still a sore point with the seasoned pilots.

Sorry for the story. No radio calls can guarantee these incidents won't occur. See and avoid is paramount and especially in uncontrolled situations. Be viligent look look look. Even then.....

[Gannet167]

Why isn't ACTPA used when flying in an uncontrolled circuit? "C/S is downwind, ACTPA, C/S is Final, ACTPA, C/S is departing the zone ACTPA, C/S is clear of the active ACTPA, C/S is taxing for rwy ACTPA" it makes just as much sense to use it redundantly and plug up the freq with useless verbal diarrhea there as it does on 126.7. And it serves just as little purpose.

[photofly]

I don't much care for ACTPA, but on area frequencies I find it helpful when a position report repeats the aircraft callsign at the end.

[crazyaviator]

For many years , i have never thought of using the term , conflicting please advise,,,, but the last 3 flights, in near calm wind, i took off from the north runway and landed about 50 min later on the south runway, arriving from the dead side. Since the circuit has LH and RH patterns, it was easy to do whilst overhead. WHY was I saying the obvious ( Conflicting FDH )? I REALLY wanted those who were in possible conflict TO SPEAK UP !!! Maybe an analogy would be this: As I walk into a bar I notice the roof is about to cave in , The revellers are oblivious to the present danger,, I want to make this clear to all who are there because I feel that they are /would not pay attention if I calmly suggest an immediate concern to their health. I announce not only for their sake, but for mine ( liability) AND i announce LOUDLY !
Is there too much complacency in the circuit? Have we been brainwashed into joining in only 2 ways? Will other pilots act/react in a timely manner if a conflict exists and the message is not strongly spoken?

[crazyaviator]

May have diverted south through highway 93 to Radium. Invermere airport is only 5 min south of Radium and straight highways N and S of Radium !. Sad to see, that plane looked quite nice for a jump plane !!!! with an IO-550 to boot!

[Shiny Side Up]

I don't much care for ACTPA, but on area frequencies I find it helpful when a position report repeats the aircraft callsign at the end.

Personally I prefer they end it with where they're at, since I could give a rat's ass about who someone else is. You almost never need to address another aircraft directly, and in the few rare instances you do and didn't hear or don't remember their letters, wait... scratch that, unless its someone I know, I never need to talk directly to other aircraft.

[Liquid Charlie]

http://www.blackair.ca/work/CTPA.mp4

Couldn't resist --

[photofly]

I don't much care for ACTPA, but on area frequencies I find it helpful when a position report repeats the aircraft callsign at the end.

Personally I prefer they end it with where they're at, since I could give a rat's ass about who someone else is. You almost never need to address another aircraft directly, and in the few rare instances you do and didn't hear or don't remember their letters, wait... scratch that, unless its someone I know, I never need to talk directly to other aircraft.

In the circuit I'm not interested in call signs.

But on an area frequency, if I'm working in exactly the same area (which occurs multiple times per day here), I do and will talk directly to them. Hence the call sign is useful.

YMMV.

PS I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who ask CTPA and then when you do, using their exact callsign: THEY'RE NOT LISTENING! It's just a verbal tic, or a meaningless magic incantation to ward off evil.