Carson Air Captain blood alcohol 0.24 at time of crash.

[TA/RA]

NAMES EDITED OUT BY ORIGINAL POSTER

"While the cause of a Kelowna-based Carson Air cargo plane crash back in April is still under investigation, new details have emerged revealing the pilot was drunk at the controls.

The BC Coroners Service has now confirmed that the toxicology test done post-mortem on the Captain, found a significant level of alcohol in his system.

XXXXX, 34, was the captain and XXXXX, 32, the first officer, on a Metro II cargo plane that crashed on Coliseum Mountain, in the North Shore mountains, at about 7:10 a.m. on April 13, 2015.

The plane had taken off from Vancouver International Airport a short time before, bound for Prince George. Both men died on impact.

“Post-mortem testing conducted on behalf of the BC Coroners Service found an alcohol level of 52 mmol/L (0.24%) in the Captain's system,” said Barb McLintock, B.C. coroner. “No other substances were present.”

The crash itself remains under investigation by the Transportation Safety Board and the BC Coroners Service.

“No drugs or alcohol of relevance were found in the first officer's,” adds McLintock.

The Transportation Safety Board revealed back at the end of April that the plane did in fact break up mid-air, and that the cause was still under investigation. "

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/14 ... over-limit

[cdnpilot77]

Holy crap...3 times the legal driving limit!! That's quite the revelation. I hope this opens the eyes of anyone debating whether to report someone for attempting to fly while intoxicated. Is someone being angry with you for turning them in worth your life? At that level of Intoxication, I would find it hard to believe the cojo wouldn't have been able to smell it or even sense it.

[DanWEC]

Oh my god. How is that even possible?
Even for chronic alcoholics that amount is enough to be very very obvious.

Sometimes a post mortem BAC level is wildly innacurate. It's been a while since my Bio/Forensic classes, but if I recall, ethanol and other alcohols can get produced by the body after death, leading to exaggerated numbers depending on the sample point. Obviously something the experts would know, but still.... damn.

Going to be many more questions now. RIP.

[TA/RA]

While I hate useless speculation as an aviation professional I find this information to be especially disturbing. It speaks to culture and professionalism and quite frankly puts a negative light on all of us as aviation professionals. It raises questions like did the contents of the plane have any bearing on the pilots decisions? Would it have been different if there had been PAX? Its an interesting interlude into some serious human factors and CRM debates.

[Gear Jerker]

This is such a f###ed up accident every way you look at it. So far the more I've learned about it, the more I wish I didn't.

[CpnCrunch]

Perhaps he was under the misconception that if you haven't had any alcohol for 8 hours you're good to go? For many binge drinkers a typical session is 5-10 pints, which will take 10-24 hours to eliminate.

[Johnny#5]

Hopefully this doesn't over-shadow the notion that Metro's are pieces of sh$t.

[meflypretty]

I wouldn't go jumping to any conclusions yet.
It's not uncommon in cases where bodies have been difficult to extract to find unusually high blood alcohol levels. Natural occurring blood sugars actually ferment in the body. In the past there have been many cases where alcohol has formed post-mortem. I'm going to hold out for the report.
My sympathies to the families.

[swordfish]

Well in that case, why didn't the first officer's BAC show a similar result? Or any such result? Absolutely negative, according to the report.

[DanWEC]

Well in that case, why didn't the first officer's BAC show a similar result? Or any such result? Absolutely negative, according to the report.

Depends on the point where the sample is taken, and also what organs have been ruptured. Morbid discussion. But still, the tox techs and the pathologists would know.
From what I remember of my studies, it's possible to get a high reading from nothing, but .24 is really really high. Not sure if it's possible, but I'm no expert.

[patter]

Let's hope the estate orders independent toxicology reports.

[North Shore]

I'm thinking that there's no way that the BC Coroners Service is going to put its reputation on the line, let alone sullying the reputation of the dead, by releasing information such as this without making sure that they are 100% correct. First impressions last - they're not going to come out 3 months from now and say, "oops, we goofed, his blood was contaminated with deice fluid, and he was actually sober as a judge'. That won't happen.

[swordfish]

I agree. We're not dealing with a bunch of newbies here, who look at things in the narrow perspective, without knowing the other possibilities, and leave themselves open to litigation.

[cncpc]

This didn't necessarily cause the accident.

If a problem developed, it wouldn't have helped in the resolution, if there was any resolution to be had.

The aircraft bunted, both wings handclapped above the fuselage, and one or both props penetrated the cockpit area. That is a startling development for a flight that was uneventful until that point. It's not usual for a bunt and wing failure to touch above the fuselage. I'm told the usual pattern is they touch under the fuselage. There were other things not understood about the failure sequence, but they may have been resolved now.

I heard some radio talk that was recorded and I think it said that was the FO talking, so assume the captain was PF.

[ahramin]

I'm thinking that there's no way that the BC Coroners Service is going to put its reputation on the line, let alone sullying the reputation of the dead, by releasing information such as this without making sure that they are 100% correct. First impressions last - they're not going to come out 3 months from now and say, "oops, we goofed, his blood was contaminated with deice fluid, and he was actually sober as a judge'. That won't happen.

You're not taking into account that in the last few decades the coroner's department has been completely gutted. What used to be a proffesional government arm with expert doctors, OH&S people, ect is now completely staffed by laymen. They simply don't have the expertise to dig deeper into anything. If the lab report comes back at .24 that's good enough for them, they aren't going to question the results they just paid for.

[AirFrame]

If the lab report comes back at .24 that's good enough for them, they aren't going to question the results they just paid for.

I suspect they've been doing this long enough that they know that alcohol levels can rise after death and why that would happen. It's probably not rocket science to factor that effect in, so I expect it's already been done in the number they've reported.

[Mr. North]

I also find the results quite surprising and question their accuracy. At .24 BAC a normal person would hardly be capable of standing let alone performing their duties prior to departure. Their eyes would have problems focusing, their sense of balance and motor skills would be severely impacted by "the spins", and their concentration would last for only the briefest of moments. You are no longer drunk at this point, you are completely wasted.

Should the lab tests stand, the only reasonable explanation is that the Captain was a high functioning alcoholic. Which begs to reason, who knew of his condition? Doing night freighters would certainly limit your exposure but even so...

[meflypretty]

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/resear ... m92-24.pdf

Alcohol production post humously is common, though not guaranteed. Totally conceivable the two would have separate readings. It is extremely difficult to get an accurate alcohol reading after they have spent time exposed.
I'm just saying its readings so far off the chart, this raises a red flag. Totally possible that the people taking the readings on behalf of the coroner (as the article states and not the coroner himself) released the readings and have left it to the inspectors to determine the source of the alcohol.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions lest I be the one issuing the apology.

[GREMMIE]

It was well over a day before the crew's bodies were located if I recall correctly. Also the bag runs at Carson are day time ops. 2 or 3 crews checking in and loading aircraft all at the same time. Somebody there should be able to give transport an idea of how the Captain looked and smelled before the departure. I had heard that the Captain was rostered for a day off and was called in to operate the flight. I hope this report is inaccurate.

[Diadem]

If I recall correctly, the accident happened on the top of a mountain in early spring, when it was covered in snow. Wouldn't the cold slow down any processes that could produce alcohol after death?
Edit: I found this article on the subject: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16782292

Owing to extensive abdominal trauma in aviation disasters (e.g. rupture of the viscera), interpretation of BAC in autopsy specimens from the pilot and crew is highly contentious and great care is needed to reach valid conclusions. Vitreous humor is strongly recommended as a body fluid for determination of ethanol in postmortem toxicology to help establish whether the deceased had consumed ethanol before death.

It seems that it's standard practice in both aircraft and car crashes to take samples that are least likely to be affected by post-mortem processes, to calculate the density of the liquid to compensate for any fluid loss, and to adjust the readings depending on the sex, age, weight and time of decomposition of the victim. To say that the result is incorrect because the Coroner's Service had financial cutbacks and therefore half-asses everything they do is quite the accusation to make without having anything to back it up.

[BigQ]

What about Type 1 or 2 diabetes, or a diet high in sugars, just prior to the insulin spike? A blood sugar level spike can cause a collapse/incapacitation - a blood sugar crash too. Didn't the crash occur in the early morning, possibly after the pilots wolfing down their breakfast?

Hometown newspaper just printed a story where a teen went in a blood sugar crash and nearly died because of it. Another angle I hope is being investigated...

[The Mole]

Coroners are not medical professional. In BC they come from varied backgrounds. Personnel friend was a coroner for years. They are highly educated, but have to rely on other professional as part of there investigation. You can't be an expert in every field. Everything they release is public record and I assure you they take great care in what is released. It can effect many legal outcomes. I highly doubt there was an error.

[GREMMIE]

FWIW, the news release is no longer posted on the coroner's service website.

[Big Bird Anonymous]

I'm thinking that there's no way that the BC Coroners Service is going to put its reputation on the line, let alone sullying the reputation of the dead, by releasing information such as this without making sure that they are 100% correct. First impressions last - they're not going to come out 3 months from now and say, "oops, we goofed, his blood was contaminated with deice fluid, and he was actually sober as a judge'. That won't happen.

You're not taking into account that in the last few decades the coroner's department has been completely gutted. What used to be a proffesional government arm with expert doctors, OH&S people, ect is now completely staffed by laymen. They simply don't have the expertise to dig deeper into anything. If the lab report comes back at .24 that's good enough for them, they aren't going to question the results they just paid for.

How about every federally regulated jurisdiction taking >5% a budget cut per year every year for the past 10 years, compounded annually. (coincidence = Harpo the Magnificent years) It is easily conceivable that half ass reports and assessments prevail everywhere. Hung over-maybe, blind drunk-unbelievable!

[cncpc]

FWIW, the news release is no longer posted on the coroner's service website.

I was wondering about that.

I'd have thought this news might have come from the TSB, but possibly not if they don't think it was the actual cause of the accident.