Logging PICUS

[Samsquamch]

Hey guys, how does logging PICUS work? Is the entire time spent in the plane, either PM or PF, all PICUS? or is it just the time spent as PF?
Thanks!

[Chaxterium]

All of it counts.

[TheNorthman]

Fairly sure it's just the time spent as PF, flight time when you're PM should be logged as Co-Pilot.

[Chaxterium]

Fairly sure it's just the time spent as PF, flight time when you're PM should be logged as Co-Pilot.

That wouldn't make any sense. The whole purpose of the PICUS program is to help someone get the PIC time they need for the ATPL. In your case the 100 hours required would actually take 200 hours (more or less) so it doubles the length of the process. I've never in my experience heard that you can only count the PF time as PICUS.

Plus PICUS is supposed to simulate PIC. The PIC is in command whether they are at the controls or not. Physically flying the plane is only a small portion of it.

I have been wrong before though....

[upintheair_]

Fairly sure it's just the time spent as PF, flight time when you're PM should be logged as Co-Pilot.

Yeah, I don't think this is correct. You can't split legs... you can swap legs but you can't hand the controls over and now have to start the timer to figure out how much PIC vs. SIC you're logging.

[TheNorthman]

I've just been logging my PF time (we do one leg as PF and the next as PM) as PICUS, but you could well be right.

[cpt.sam]

When I did mine, I logged all 200 hours. I didn't differentiate between PF PNF. As well, because not all aspects of the operation can be done from the right seat in a 1900 (starting), I had to log a minimum of 20 hours in the left, to account for the 10 required. TC advised me of that one, as many people only log 10, forgetting about the 1/2 value time for PICUS !
Hope this helps, good luck with your A's!

[turbo-prop]

When a captain and co-pilot fly together does the captain log co-pilot time when he is the PM? No whoever is designated captain can log all the time as captain.

[L1011]

Your company will have a form to log PICUS if they are approved for PICUS. You log both PF/PNF legs. The captain is still the PIC, and you still log co-pilot time, however, make a notation in the comments section of your personal logbook that it is PICUS. It was also a suggestion (not a requirement) by the TC employee who eventually processed my application to log each PICUS leg separately in your logbook to make it easier to cross-reference the PICUS logging sheet mentioned above. That is, as opposed to making one entry for the day.

It's always a good idea to call up the TC office you plan to submit your application to about the process, after all, they're the ones with the final say about your ATPL.

[L1011]

421.11 Airline Transport Licence Training (Pilot-in-command Under Supervision)
(amended 1998/12/01; previous version)

(1) All air operators using large aeroplanes may institute programs of supervision to allow co-pilots to credit flight time as pilot-in-command time.

(2) Air operators using small aeroplanes and Air operators using helicopters may institute a program of supervision referred to in subsection (1) provided that they have received authorization to do so from the Minister based on the operator’s ability to institute such a program in a safe and effective manner.

(3) The training program shall be conducted in accordance with the following:

(a) the operator shall ensure that the supervisory pilots are briefed on these procedures by the Minister; and

(b) the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time may be acquired in the co-pilot's seat provided the pilot-in-command functions described in clauses (i) and (ii) can be performed from the seat. Otherwise, the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time shall include a minimum of ten hours in the pilot-in-command seat. The pilot-in-command under supervision flight time shall include:
(amended 1998/12/01; previous version)

(i) with the exception of taxiing, at least all the flight functions of a pilot-in-command including flight planning, takeoff, landing, en route flying and approach; and

(ii) a minimum of one takeoff and one landing for each ten hours of flight time.

(4) The conditions for crediting an applicant's flight time are as follows:
(amended 1998/12/01; no previous version)

(a) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane shall be given credit for up to 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time under supervision, provided the applicant:

(i) holds a Commercial Pilot Licence - Aeroplane with a multi-engine rating and the aeroplane type rating in which the flight time is acquired;

(ii) has a Group I instrument rating; and

(iii) has accumulated a minimum of 150 hours pilot-in-command flight time in aeroplanes.

(b) An applicant for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Helicopter shall be given credit for up to 150 hours of pilot-in-command flight time under supervision, provided the applicant:

(i) holds a Commercial Pilot Licence - Helicopter with the helicopter type rating in which the flight time is acquired; and

(ii) has accumulated a minimum of 100 hours pilot-in- command flight time in helicopters.

(5) An applicant shall be credited flight time as follows:
(amended 1998/12/01; no previous version)

(a) not more than 50% of the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time for a total of up to 100 hours in the case of an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Aeroplane and up to 150 hours in the case of an Airline Transport Pilot Licence - Helicopter may be credited toward pilot-in-command experience requirements; and

(b) Pilot-in-command under supervision flight time, provided such flight time is acquired within the 12 months preceding the date of application for the licence for which the flight time is to be credited.

(6) When an application for an Airline Transport Pilot Licence is based in part on pilot-in-command under supervision flight time, the applicant shall:
(amended 1998/12/01; no previous version)

(a) submit a personal log or other reliable record that contains a summary of the pilot-in-command under supervision flight time and the number of takeoffs and landings; and

(b) enter a notation on the application form showing the portion of pilot-in-command flight time that was done under supervision.

[co-joe]

A company i worked for had a PIC us program where whoever signs the journey log for the whole day logs PIC. You had to be left seat PPC'd, and line indoc'd, and obviously the 'captain' had to be cool with it. You'd then switch seats so PF always left seat, PNF always right seat. In theory only one person logs PIC...in theory. But whatever you write in your own log book is your own and nobody ever saw it.

[Paydah]

Old thread, but figured I'd put my two cents in because I was super confused, and maybe this will help someone.

I went to the TC office (YQT) to ask them, they said to put the logsheet data into the PICUS form (count all the flight time), and from there, put half the time into the PIC column, and the other half into the SIC.

Hopefully that's right, or at least I hope that it's the same guys adding up all my times when I submit the paperwork

[Lightchop]

That does not sound right.

[co-joe]

Things have change on this. Now you can log PICUS if the company has an approved program and you follow it. It seems weird to me but a co-joe can log PICUS without being PIC qualified. They sit right seat, and perform right seat duties and it counts as PIC towards the ATPL if the Captain checks that box, and writes in the aircraft journey log. Yes millennials have it easy.

[Lightchop]

It's not just millennials man... Lots of "older guys" are taking advantage of the program.

[Canoehead]

Nothing can substitute for PICSS. "PIC-Sans Supervision".
I understand why it exists, but really, the regulator may as well just reduce ATPL requirements by 100PIC Hrs in my opinion.

[Meatservo]

I've always considered that ALL copilot time can be "PICUS" if you have a captain with the right attitude. After all "in command under supervision" is an oxymoron. Part of a captain's job, in my opinion, is helping copilots develop and learn so they will be safe captains themselves someday. I hesitate to elaborate on the specifics, but recently I had an abnormal situation, and while my plan for what to do next was "by the book", my copilot's suggestion was so much better, that's what we did and it saved us a lot of bullshit in the end. This kind of shit happens all the time. In my way of thinking, unless they are brand-new to the job, ALL copilots are "in command under supervision" (insofar as that phrase can have any actual meaning)