Let The Massive Hiring Begin!!!! FINALLY

[Meecka]

Hey Johnny, to least I can get them to read your resume!

Warning, Dad Lecture to follow...
Sometimes you need to take a crappy job as a stopgap, a way to get some much-needed experience. Sadly, there are plenty of those companies in Canada willing to exploit you for a few years. I met a guy who started right at Emirates with a brand new ATPL and he was an A340 Captain on his 30th birthday. Bought himself a Porsche as a birthday present.

That doesn't happen here.

There are, however, many good career opportunities if you are focussed and know what your goals are. The trick, requiring much self-deception, is to not be in too much of a rush; yet, make sure if you do have to compromise, you can see a way forward.

To live long and prosper (the living long is the goal, prosper comes next!) you must remember to ALWAYS be a professional, to conduct your career as if the Chief Pilot at Air Canada is always riding with you, even if you find yourself at a crap company flying junk. All of that will change eventually, if you keep it together and never stop striving to be the best.

As soon as you feel complacent, comfortable, bulletproof, you may be very near the end of your career/life. Do something about it.

Don't forget, father knows best!

Big +1 here. The same is true for maintenance. You have to go into this business having a long-term plan, and be willing to slog it out to get there.

[PROC_HDG]

Thanks for all the info on Sky Regional everyone. PROC_HDG, I'm one of those ones up North looking to return to civilization and am thinking Sky Regional would be a great route to take. How difficult would it be do you think to switch bases from YUL to YYZ at some point? That being said I'd be happy with either option. How's the training program?

I have 2300 TT and 600 MPIC Turbine.

People are hired for both bases, and switch from time to time. Training is what you would expect.

With your time I would suggest if you know anybody already at Sky to look them up and see if they are willing to put a good word in for you. The who you know factor is a big part of getting a job here.

Best of luck,

PROC_HDG

[CZBBPilot87]

Thanks PROC_HDG,

I'll see what I can do! I understand why internal references are important. It's encouraging that some people have switched bases successfully, although that wouldn't be a priority of course. Just good to know. How long have you worked there? Is morale high? You could PM me if you want, either way. Thanks.


CZBBPilot87

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Hey Johnny, to least I can get them to read your resume!

I would definitely have to update my resume...maybe even professionally
Haven't been on the receiving end of a job interview in over fifteen years!

[xsbank]

It's like that old joke: "God, I want to win the Giant Lottery!"

"Son, meet me halfway and buy a ticket!"

[fruitloops]

SkyReg wages from a few years ago were : $31,200 for F/O's plus $14 per hour, and $54,000 for captains plus $22 or $24 an hour. I don't think you get the additional hourly amounts with each pay cheque you have to wait until the end of the year. Someone at Sky now could confirm. So at 70 or 80 hrs on average per month = FO's would avg over $1k per month additional and CAPs over $1500 per month. Not a 'bad" but not 'fabulous" gig but to get on EMB I'm guessing some previous jet time increases your odds of getting hired. The other good thing about the job would be that the EMB is a great rating to have in order to get on the AC main line eventually. (unless AC is going to start off loading all of those planes to regionals as well - eek!)

[PROC_HDG]

SkyReg wages from a few years ago were : $31,200 for F/O's plus $14 per hour, and $54,000 for captains plus $22 or $24 an hour. I don't think you get the additional hourly amounts with each pay cheque you have to wait until the end of the year. Someone at Sky now could confirm. So at 70 or 80 hrs on average per month = FO's would avg over $1k per month additional and CAPs over $1500 per month. Not a 'bad" but not 'fabulous" gig but to get on EMB I'm guessing some previous jet time increases your odds of getting hired. The other good thing about the job would be that the EMB is a great rating to have in order to get on the AC main line eventually. (unless AC is going to start off loading all of those planes to regionals as well - eek!)

Hourly pay is paid out every month. The min guarantee is 65 hours but they regularly block around 85.

PROC_HDG

[loopa]

I work at Sky and don't personally know an FO who has made less than 50-55k their first year. The pay system sucks and screws you in IROPs, but draft is lucrative and pays out at just under 2x what you'd normally make for the day. And there is just about as much draft as you could ask for, because crewing is so F@cked due to expansion and attrition. Yes, upgrades are quick, and it looks like they'll stay quick with the 5 new Embraers. Around 1 year on the Q or 1-2 years on the EMB if you have your sh!t together (have the time requirements etc).

They can schedule you for 20 days a month but realistically you will hit the target ~80 hrs after 15-17 days of flying. Then they will tack on a couple gray days or standbys. No reserve-by-seniority, everybody shares standby duty and gets 1-3 standbys per month.

There is a lot wrong with this place but if I were up north looking to get back to civilization, I'd say it is the best choice for initial pay and career progression when compared with Jazz, Georgian, Encore.

PROC_HDG

This is exactly what 2 of my friends working there at the moment say as well. Word for word. Definitely a positive situation as compared to the latter. So I guess you get on the jet at SR, get paid 50-55k / month, you work 20 days versus 18 at Encore, and have a guaranteed interview at AC. If it doesn't pan, you have the jet time to go anywhere in the world. Encore, you have guaranteed flow through, just a matter of when and IF a union doesn't put a stop to that. It really seems like apples to oranges and comes down to who you want to work for the long term. Thanks for the info PROC_HDG - you guys definitely seem to have a decent setup there (amidst the common non sense that regionals try to get away with) - so on that token, I retract my statements about SR before and stand corrected. You have a competitive product as compared to what Encore is offering. It opens two routes, a career with AC or a career anywhere in the world due to the exp of jet time and jet pic time. Not a bad choice for your 2500 hour pilot looking for a step into the 705 world. Assuming there's no lengthy pooling process at SR and possibility for your flow through to mean nothing (interview in sr case) if a union takes over as the case is with Encore? Has the PML become official finally? The Sky Regional ad says nothing about that right?

[Oxi]

I believe SkyReg starts at 49000$ last I checked for FO. It's a Farcry from what it was back in 2012 when they started. I believe it was in the low 30s. It was changed a couple of years ago. Now this is base pay. Every time you fly you get a certain amount per hour. And per diems. So in the end it's not a bad gig anymore.

$49k?

Thats roughly what EI pays at the top end.

Why not just get fired from what ever job you have now, enjoy EI, when it runs out get another crap job for a year and repeat.

Seems like less work, less stress and more time off than working at Sky reg.

49k for EI?! What colour is the sky on your planet? Lmao!

It's not a bag gig. Pay is about right at 45-49k for F/O. But rest assured you will fly 20 days a month every month.

In return you'll get on the PML for Air Canada guaranteed interview.

Whats the talk about your PML to AC vs the other carriers

[tuskegee0147]

Hey Johnny, to least I can get them to read your resume!

Warning, Dad Lecture to follow...
Sometimes you need to take a crappy job as a stopgap, a way to get some much-needed experience. Sadly, there are plenty of those companies in Canada willing to exploit you for a few years. I met a guy who started right at Emirates with a brand new ATPL and he was an A340 Captain on his 30th birthday. Bought himself a Porsche as a birthday present.

That doesn't happen here.

There are, however, many good career opportunities if you are focussed and know what your goals are. The trick, requiring much self-deception, is to not be in too much of a rush; yet, make sure if you do have to compromise, you can see a way forward.

To live long and prosper (the living long is the goal, prosper comes next!) you must remember to ALWAYS be a professional, to conduct your career as if the Chief Pilot at Air Canada is always riding with you, even if you find yourself at a crap company flying junk. All of that will change eventually, if you keep it together and never stop striving to be the best.

As soon as you feel complacent, comfortable, bulletproof, you may be very near the end of your career/life. Do something about it.

Don't forget, father knows best!

Xs bank just hit the nail on the head

[newcomer]

To all of you that are praising skyregional for their payscale, you don't seem to remember that not long ago the same job was made with captains pulling at least 120k or more a year and other great benefits.
Pay and benefits keep deteriorating and people are happy about it. CEOs must be laughing so hard...

[AirMail]

To all of you that are praising skyregional for their payscale, you don't seem to remember that not long ago the same job was made with captains pulling at least 120k or more a year and other great benefits.
Pay and benefits keep deteriorating and people are happy about it. CEOs must be laughing so hard...

Here have some up votes

[PROC_HDG]

To all of you that are praising skyregional for their payscale, you don't seem to remember that not long ago the same job was made with captains pulling at least 120k or more a year and other great benefits.
Pay and benefits keep deteriorating and people are happy about it. CEOs must be laughing so hard...

I don't think anybody is praising Sky's pay scale. Quite the contrary. Everything at the regional level sucks @ss. But if you are in the position of having to chose one of these low bottom regional jobs, it helps to be informed, no?

PROC_HDG

[loopa]

Curious, back in the Air BC days and Time air and etc... what were the starting F/O and Captain salaries for that time? If we apply inflation, what would they be today?

[avbird]

Could someone give a bit more insight on this massive hiring? Is it going to be jazz, sky,encore dropping the mins for hiring or are they going being doing alot of hiring which will open up slots at bearskin and the smaller operators. Just looking for some more info.

[Sky_Conqueror]

Got a few numbers from the Big Red. I will start with what I have heard and then go on for other major regionals. So please follow closely.

Jazz is now the main feeder for pilots at AC with the new agreement they have gotten. Now with this in mind, AC is the big player in this part of the game. AC is opening the hiring taps again, with rumours for this to be ongoing until new instructions. This will reverberate all the way down the food chain to shitty shaddy bullshit slavery operators. AC usually starts gearing up in the fall for the high summer season. One big factor that has started the massive hiring is that AC is receiving new equipment such as a few more 787s and 777s. The second factor is that the retirement wave is about to start. So much of the main flow of pilots will come from Jazz. I have heard as much as 80% of pilots have a direct way in to AC, the other 20% are the other AC feeders (Sky, GGN) and freelance applicants with alot of hours who apply directly. I have heard that Jazz has a legal ratio of 15 pilots allowed to leave per month, or something along those lines. In the past months, I was told Jazz was having about 2 groundschools a month. This seems pretty accurate because there is one going on now, and the next one is scheduled on November 2nd. Each class has about 15 to 20 candidates. AC has projected to hire approx. 170 pilots by summer 2016, with probable the same number of candidates for the rest of 2016. The best case scenario number of hires for summer 2016 was 250 pilots, but that needs clarification and it seems a little to excessive. So AC has G/S going from November up to March 2016. Jazz has projected groundschools now I believe going into the new year as well. This will surely affect Jazz; so this is why Jazz is becoming very desperate for drivers....despite the ''POOLS''.

Now lets trickle down to another big player: Sky Regional. They are expecting 5 new EMB 175's for next spring. The number of pilots needed is 108+. This was confirmed by a source of mine. Technically we don't need the 108+ pilots for 5 planes as I am told. So the factor increasing the number might be the big Game Player: people leaving for AC. They posted 2 weeks ago so I believe this massive hiring has started for them as well.

Now Porter. Porter is waiting for the big news break: that goddamn CYTZ expansion for the jets. Everything is suspended now as we hold our breath for a possible new Government. The NDP has vowed apparently to listen to a few Torontonians; if in power they will not approve Billy Bishop expansion. If expansion is approved on the other hand, a high number of CSeries will come into play with an additional 5 Q400's. As you may have noticed, 3 weeks ago they considerably lowered the minimum requirements, and have finally approved an Early Connection program for pilots with 200 to 999 hours total. They seem to be preparing for massive hiring. I know that there are ground schools confirmed from January to March 2016 as well for them too. So the game may already be in play for them.

Unfortunately I do not have numbers for Westjet / Encore. All I know is that Encore is still expanding and still on ongoing recruitment for Q400 F/O's. So if we look at the picture we just analyzed and if things go out as planned.... end of 2015/2016 seems like a crazy year for hiring. And with the retirements coming into play, the music my continue for a few years as well. This suction will affect alot of middle turboprop carriers like Bear, Thunder, Wasaya (Weird I did not see any adds from them recently.....they usually post every 3 to 4 months!!!).

[Bede]

To all of you that are praising skyregional for their payscale, you don't seem to remember that not long ago the same job was made with captains pulling at least 120k or more a year and other great benefits.
Pay and benefits keep deteriorating and people are happy about it. CEOs must be laughing so hard...

That may be true, but looking back a pilot today is making far more at their experience level than I did when I started in the industry almost 20 years ago, even accounting for inflation (I sound like an old man). Back then you needed 1500-2000 hours+500 MPIC to get a job flying a PA31 for ~$30k/year (that's what it was for me). At ~4000 hours you could get left seat on a King Air making $50k. Now the 2000 hour guys is flying a Q400 and the 4000 hour guy is a captain at a regional.

For my first 10 years of flying I earned (I recorded this): $10k, $8k, $31k, $26k, $26k, $34k, $45k, $51k, $53k, $56k. For an average of $34k/year. It took me 14 years to crack $100k.
I think if I compared my career earnings for the first 10 years with someone starting now, they'd have me beat in 10 years.

[watermeth]

How much would it be adjusted to inflation today ?
So we could say that payscale, even if strating lower, increases faster than in previous years ?

[cdnpilot77]

How much would it be adjusted to inflation today ?
So we could say that payscale, even if strating lower, increases faster than in previous years ?

Well, Bede is old, so I would say his average yearly salary would be about $4.7million/yr in today's dollars. I think he's got us beat.

[Bede]

add about 2%/yr inflation. In 2000, that would be 30%. So I still only made $13k in today's dollars.

[fruitloops]

Good posts to put things in perspective Bede lol. It's innate for us pilots and 1st world humans for that matter to complain and always want more than they have. I'm just thankful things are happening and we have things to discuss and criticize!

Using Bank of Canada calculator.

[newcomer]

The biggest purchase you'll ever make is buying a house/condo.
If I take Montreal as an example, a condo sold for 100 000$ in 2000 is now worth 250 000$ (at least).
The big difference is right there, you cannot apply the 2% a year rule.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

add about 2%/yr inflation. In 2000, that would be 30%. So I still only made $13k in today's dollars.

Aviation Whore!!!

[Kosiw]

So SR's recent ad for cpt"s (and before that fo's) must be part of the 108 stated in this thread. And now Porter with its coming open house, and Georgian getting more RJs(?) again as rumoured here on AvCan, things are finally moving...

When will there be upward pressure on wages when these Tier 2's can't meet hiring quotas and expansion plans ?

Gotta love the ole' supply and demand concept when it works in our favor.

[Sky_Conqueror]

The number is usually for the projected staffing numbers for first quarter 2016. It does not take in consideration people probably moving on to AC, or WJ mainline. As for pay, I don't think its projected to change for a long long while.