How to Log IFR in VMC?

[ratboy]

I was just wondering, what/if anything do you log time spent flying IFR in VMC?

Does it count a simulated? Or does it just get logged as nothing special?

I've had different people tell me different things and thought i could ask on here. See if i could get a consistant answer.

[Sulako]

Transport says that the only time that counts as IFR is time actually spent in cloud.

That means that if you are cruising around at FL360 and you aren't in cloud, it doesn't count as IFR time even though are are on an IFR flight plan.

However;

When I got my ATPL a few years back, a guy from TC looked over my logbook. I had logged all the time I filed IFR as IFR time, and the inspector was pissed. So we made a deal; I said that roughly 30% of the time was spent in cloud, and he signed me off.

[ice ice baby]

you won't get a clear answer here. Best solution is to get a log book that has a 3 columns for Intrument (Actual, Hood, simulator) and then estimate the amount of time actually spent in cloud, don't know if people are counting all the time they spend on top. Another point is your log book says IFR not IMC.

[sanjet]

There is a difference between IMC time and IFR time. If you fly under an IFR flight plan, you can log the entire flight as IFR minus the taxi time. If you spent 6 minutes in clouds from a 4 hours IFR flight. You log your 4 hours of IFR time but in a seperate column, there should be: Actual IMC. There you log your 0.1 of IMC time.

Hope that helps

[Merlinman]

Can't remember where I read it, but all my IFR logged time is counted as 10% actual 'in cloud' time. T.C. approved this with my ATPL. Anyone who counts all the minutes that they are in cloud on IFR legs is wasting their time.

[Right Seat Captain]

There is a difference between IMC time and IFR time. If you fly under an IFR flight plan, you can log the entire flight as IFR minus the taxi time. If you spent 6 minutes in clouds from a 4 hours IFR flight. You log your 4 hours of IFR time but in a seperate column, there should be: Actual IMC. There you log your 0.1 of IMC time.

Hope that helps

I love all these rules that people come up with. Just use common sense. If you're flying on the instruments, it's instrument time.

[TC Guy]

I was just wondering, what/if anything do you log time spent flying IFR in VMC?

Does it count a simulated? Or does it just get logged as nothing special?

I've had different people tell me different things and thought i could ask on here. See if i could get a consistant answer.

As has been already said, IMC time and IFR time are not the same. IMC (flight in Instrument Meteorlogical Conditions) is when you are flying with sole reference to instruments. Filing IFR does not mean you are IMC.

There are several ways you could do this:

1) keep track of time you spend IMC (sole reference to instruments, "in cloud" if you will)... no one should question this if it looks reasonable.

2) if you do not keep track of this, many licencing officers/inspectors will allow you to count a certain amount towards IMC (there is no real guidance that I am aware of)

...so, when you are going for the ATPL, what you can count towards instrument experience is:

Hood + IMC + Approved FTD (Flight Training Device) or simulator time

You need a total of 75 hours, of which no more than 25 hours of this may be FTD/Simulator.

(d) 75 hours instrument flight time of which a maximum of 25 hours may have been acquired in approved instrument ground trainers and a maximum of 35 hours may have been acquired in helicopters. Instrument ground time shall not be applied toward the total 1500 hour flight time requirement.

Link:http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... ds/421.htm
(you will have to scroll down about 1/2 way to find the quoted text)

What I would do is phone your local Transport Canada office and ask to speak to a licencing Inspector or Officer. Get their name... then when you send in your documents for processing, talk to them.

That sould solve any ambiguities.

No, it is not clear. Sorry about that.

-Guy

[Brint]

I've entered "IFR" in one of my empty columns to keep track of flights on IFR flight plans. A rough estimate of the time in cloud goes into the IMC/Cloud section

[scotothedoublet]

My take:
Look outside see cloud=actual
Look outside see ground and training/check pilot inside a/c=simulated
Look outside see cars in parking lot=simulator

VFR flight plan in IMC=oops but I guess technically 'actual'
IFR flight plan in VMC=yay but not instrument time

[captainsweaty]

I agree with Brint, it's easy and reasonable

[Hedley]

I've never met anyone who cares how much time you've spent flying with an IFR clearance.

Actual IFR means actually in cloud - without a visual reference to a horizon. This is termed IMC which ain't quite the truth, but is close enough.

Most people (eg Transport) only care about the (instrument) time you've spent in IMC (plus hood, plus ground sim).

You can log your time on an IFR clearance in another column if you wish, but I don't really know why you'd bother. You can log how many hot meals you've had, too, but again, I'm not sure why you'd want to do that.

P.S. Sully, you got lucky on your ATPL - no way I've spent 30% of my IFR clearance time in cloud. Much closer is 5%.