Jets at 'The Island.'

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:46 am

What would happen if Porter decided to pull a fast one, and sub in a C-series for one of its regular flights from the island? Fines? Slaps on wrist? Blue faces from island residents as they hold their breaths? How long would it take for anyone to notice?

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:01 am

I suspect if ATC even allowed them to land, the company who operated it would get a fine from the Port Authority and some sort of regulatory action since operating off the field as it is would almost certainly be in violation of their operating certificate and/or AFM.

Oh, and Porter would be on the s**tlist of the Port Authority, City and Federal Government for a long, long time.

Just a guess though

Taxivasion · Post by **Taxivasion** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:10 am

What if it was a "medevac"?

Tanker299 · Post by **Tanker299** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:41 am

They should dedicate one or a few seats to hope air, as we know most so called medevac flights are just patient transfer. I heard that the jet landed there on some sort of trial run right from mr deluce himself.

Driving Comet · Post by **Driving Comet** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:08 am

North Shore wrote:What would happen if Porter decided to pull a fast one, and sub in a C-series for one of its regular flights from the island? Fines? Slaps on wrist? Blue faces from island residents as they hold their breaths? How long would it take for anyone to notice?

I've read the fines are 10,000 for landing after 11pm, so imagine an unauthorized jet would probably be the same amount. Would probably make the flight uneconomical. As for noticing, BBD brought down the C series for some low approaches this summer. They didn't advertise it, and I don't think I saw one news report or complaint for NojetsTO.

Rockie wrote:I suspect if ATC even allowed them to land, the company who operated it would get a fine from the Port Authority and some sort of regulatory action since operating off the field as it is would almost certainly be in violation of their operating certificate and/or AFM.

Oh, and Porter would be on the s**tlist of the Port Authority, City and Federal Government for a long, long time.

Just a guess though

I'll tell you what a told an American citation this summer. My job is to separate aircraft, if you want to come bring a jet in, you'll get a landing clearance, but the fines from ports Toronto are pretty steep. He elected to divert to YYZ. If we get a new government in 4 or less years, you probably don't want to be on everyone's shit list when it comes time to try amend the tripartite agreement.

Rockie · Post by **Rockie** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:27 am

Driving Comet wrote:My job is to separate aircraft, if you want to come bring a jet in, you'll get a landing clearance,

Are you required to report such an occurrence to the Port Authority?

2R · Post by 2R » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:08 am

The sales guy told me "It is not a jet, it is a turbo fan and it is quieter than most seaplanes "
They would be telling me the truth nes pas ?

PilotDAR · Post by **PilotDAR** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:14 pm

it is a turbo fan and it is quieter than most seaplanes "

And certainly more quiet than those damn Honda Civics with the modified exhausts, which sound like a huge chainsaws!

FighterPilot · Post by **FighterPilot** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:33 pm

I would love to take a HS748 down to the Island some day, just let it idle there for hours, or taxi it around aimlessly. Followed by increasing MU-2 flights down to the Island, again, just taxiing aimlessly and doing NTS tests. Just to see what the downtowns reaction is to hearing those turboprops.

goingnowherefast · Post by **goingnowherefast** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:15 pm

I've got a 185 amphib with the long blade seaplane prop. I might feel like doing circuits

In all seriousness, modern jets are so quiet, it should be a non-issue. But we all know how stubborn ignorant people can be.

single_swine_herder · Post by **single_swine_herder** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:53 pm

North Shore wrote:What would happen if Porter decided to pull a fast one, and sub in a C-series for one of its regular flights from the island? Fines? Slaps on wrist? Blue faces from island residents as they hold their breaths? How long would it take for anyone to notice?

I am pretty sure that if "they pulled a fast one," they would find themselves on the receiving end of all the government, they had been paying for.

Driving Comet · Post by **Driving Comet** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:05 pm

Rockie wrote:
Driving Comet wrote:My job is to separate aircraft, if you want to come bring a jet in, you'll get a landing clearance,
Are you required to report such an occurrence to the Port Authority?

No, I'm not the airport police. Ports Toronto has access to our movement tracking system or at least gets some sort of reports so that they can bill landing aircraft. It's up to them to see who comes and goes in terms of regulating curfew, jets, ect.

I'd say the loudest planes at the field are a locally based 185 floatplane and the MU2s that are often in and out.

sanjet · Post by **sanjet** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:06 pm

Very valid point, at what point do you call an aircraft a jet. A Q400 has turbine engines that turns a prop freely that is not encased.

C series has a geared turbofan engine: A turbine engine that turns a few blades at low speed (geared) and is encased.

Perhaps they should call the C series an aircraft equipped with turbo prop engines covered with a case.

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:12 pm

Get bombardier to call Porters C series CS100TF (TF for turbo fan) to get around it.

goingnowherefast · Post by **goingnowherefast** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:19 pm

How foolish of us! It's not a jet, it's a turbo-prop with a fixed pitch ducted propeller. Silly Bombardier, "whisper jet" still has the word jet in it.

andy_mtl · Post by **andy_mtl** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:00 pm

We land the mu2 on the island all the time. Even after hours if it's a medevac and or organ transport.

Note tho, the mu2 is only loud when the Condition levers are at taxi.
The moment you go to take off and land... it's like a stealth plane!
So fast you can't see and so quite you can't hear it!.....
Well maybe not but still it's not that bad.

Andy

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:28 pm

andy_mtl wrote:We land the mu2 on the island all the time. Even after hours if it's a medevac and or organ transport.

Note tho, the mu2 is only loud when the Condition levers are at taxi.
The moment you go to take off and land... it's like a stealth plane!
So fast you can't see and so quite you can't hear it!.....
Well maybe not but still it's not that bad.

Andy

Yup, MU2's are deceiving. I remember when I flew them, there were times that we would take the headset off as it is no louder than a king air (unless you are operating a 3 bladder, than damnnn).

andy_mtl · Post by **andy_mtl** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:45 pm

Check out C-GYUA

It's our 5 bladed wood composite prop mu2.

It's supposed to be quiter , I'm not sure about that.
But much faster starts and it's much easier to spin on shut down.
Also you easily get 300-310 ktas at fl250 , and an amazing rate of climb too.

Making me miss my job already and yesterday was my last day.

Andy

bizjets101 · Post by **bizjets101** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:10 pm

click here for photo Tom Podolec/CTV photo
RCAF CC-177 shooting approach at CYTZ - just don't land

fish4life · Post by **fish4life** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:08 pm

I'm pretty sure if the RCAF wanted to land they could do whatever they want lol

Driving Comet · Post by **Driving Comet** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:19 pm

fish4life wrote:I'm pretty sure if the RCAF wanted to land they could do whatever they want lol

I was told a story about a CF18 doing a touch and go at the island before I got there. Can't remember the exact details, but I know it happened because my coworker showed me the letter he got from the RCAF about it. I don't think they were too happy.

AuxBatOn · Post by **AuxBatOn** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:40 pm

The guy got in a bit of trouble... But not too much.

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:07 pm

If you're tempted, please give us a day or two's notice. We can probably fix up quite a crowd for you.

2R · Post by 2R » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:15 pm

It would be nice for them to arrange a few fly byes to show off how quiet the turbo FANS are .no need to land just a few low passes to put everyone's mind at peace . Once they see a nice quiet stable approach they will see their is nothing to worry about the modern turbo Fans in the shiney new planes

justwork · Post by **justwork** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:58 am

I think that noise is really only a fraction of NoJets agenda. I'm all for jets at the island and I truly hope that this happens for Porter. I think the biggest hurdle is getting the runway lengthened and educating stubborn clueless people.

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