Porter or Air Georgian

[math66]

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[cdnpilot77]

Well do you want real info or just the stuff you want to hear? Some of the bashing has merit, don't discount it, but at the same time you need to be able to read between the lines of good and bad to really find the truth. Trouble is, with one of those carriers, you will be hard pressed to find people saying good things.

[math66]

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[YvesT]

Would you mind sharing you experience levels and interview process, I am in the process of applying to those exact companies and just looking to see whether i am in the ballpark.

Thanks in advance and good luck

[gtanorth]

Don't think short term. If you want to work for AC the Air Georgian is the clear winner. Jazz Sky EVAS and GGN have the PML that gets you to AC. If your goals fall outside of AC then you have something to think about.

[DanWEC]

Im surprised at the comparison, but I suppose looking at the CRJ is slightly more even. I'd say it depends of what you want and your age. Do a lifetime earnings calculation and see what it comes out with. For me being a bit older it's not worth the sacrifice.
I think a very small percentage of people that hack it out for years at GGN end up making it to AC, but I don't have the exact numbers.
FWIW I know far more happy people at POE than at GGN.

[altiplano]

Go where you get the first offer... and if it's not on the jet, quit Porter and take it.

Neither are career spots for a motivated individual who wants to progress their career. Keep that in mind. You don't want to work there for years to come.

Pay is probably close, schedules not too far apart and that jet time will go further than -8 time in most future employers eyes, x10 if you ever try to go overseas.

Besides the jet job gets you 1/2 decent passes with an international carrier, slight inside track to AC and a place to park when you go to work...

Plus you avoid the gong show that is Porter and YTZ. A company that although had a recent cash injection is oft thought to be teetering and far from a stable workplace... and we all know the C series is not coming and if it did there are 300 other guys ahead of you drinking the Koolaid with their fingers crossed...

FWIW I know a bunch dying to get out of Porter - like considering just giving it up they can't take it anymore - dying... I don't know anyone at GGN but it's probably the not far off. You don't want to work a whole career flying regional with any of these guys. Anyone who thinks a regional airline pilot job is a great long term career job needs a punch in the face.

Take no prisoners and do what's best for you.

[fish4life]

If you go to one please just commit and actually spend some time there (min 1-2 years), it's the least you can do if they are going to spend $30-50 000 training you.

[gtanorth]

How does one get to AC OTS if not through an AC Express partner now that the PML is in place at all Express carriers?

It still comes down to where you want to work long-term.

[math66]

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[math66]

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[altiplano]

spend some time there

I used to think that, but looking back at my career... I was wrong.

You owe them zilch. Always do what's best for you, they certainly will only do what's best for them.

Always keep an eye on progression be it professionally, financially, personally... It's why we're in it

[Diadem]

If you go to one please just commit and actually spend some time there (min 1-2 years), it's the least you can do if they are going to spend $30-50 000 training you.

GGN has a four-year bond on the CRJ for something like $40000, so if you aren't rolling in cash you'll probably be there for a looooong time.

[skypirate88]

If you go to one please just commit and actually spend some time there (min 1-2 years), it's the least you can do if they are going to spend $30-50 000 training you.

GGN has a four-year bond on the CRJ for something like $40000, so if you aren't rolling in cash you'll probably be there for a looooong time.

Is that true? When we had guys go over there the bond was $12000 over 1 or 2 years. That was about a year and a half ago though.

If that's accurate I can't believe they are actually getting people to take it...shiny(sort of) jet syndrome for sure.

[gtanorth]

The 40k guy is a troll. NO IT IS NOT TRUE

[math66]

If you go to one please just commit and actually spend some time there (min 1-2 years), it's the least you can do if they are going to spend $30-50 000 training you.

GGN has a four-year bond on the CRJ for something like $40000, so if you aren't rolling in cash you'll probably be there for a looooong time.

Wrong!

Still 1 year / 12K

[Diadem]

I swear they had an ad out in the summer, from the company itself, that had that included in it. It wasn't in their last posting, so I can't prove it, but I remember it distinctly.

[CPLMike89]

LOL, No you guys it's not a 40 k bond its only 12 k! WOW! what a deal!

Why the F#$% are we justifying PAYING MONEY TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE MONEY? FFS guys the industry is on fire right now anyone with over 1000 hours can land a decent gig that doesn't involve forking over cash for the privilege to work.

[iflyroads]

LOL, No you guys it's not a 40 k bond its only 12 k! WOW! what a deal!

Why the F#$% are we justifying PAYING MONEY TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE MONEY? FFS guys the industry is on fire right now anyone with over 1000 hours can land a decent gig that doesn't involve forking over cash for the privilege to work.

I don't think its an upfront bond, its a pro-rated. You don't pay anything upfront you just sign a piece of paper stating that if you leave before the one year you owe them the cash. A lot of companies are doing that these days, with all the movement in the industry they must have people in and out.

[fish4life]

If you can't commit to a company for a year you should pay them money. 1 year is not a long time at all, if you don't think you can commit to it before you start then don't apply.

[tbaylx]

LOL, No you guys it's not a 40 k bond its only 12 k! WOW! what a deal!

Why the F#$% are we justifying PAYING MONEY TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE MONEY? FFS guys the industry is on fire right now anyone with over 1000 hours can land a decent gig that doesn't involve forking over cash for the privilege to work.

A 1 year commitment isn't really much to ask is it? If you leave before then you pay the $12k pro rated. Seems reasonable. Not sure where a guy with a couple thousand hours and a fresh crj rating is going to go anyways though.

[xsbank]

The issue that we lose sight of in the quest for more hours and bigger aircraft is that you are selling your labour to somebody who is willing to pay for it. Yes, you "get" to fly their jet but your expertise, skill and experience is what they are paying for so that they can make money with your labour. The better you are at what you do, the less their maintenance costs, the less fuel they buy, the less hassle they have for the payoff.

If there is anything in the equation ("equal") that doesn't work for you, if they break any promises or treat you unfairly (or whatever), bail. I am tending more and more to agree with Altiplano, nobody will look after you as well as you will.

But EQUAL means that you also have to behave with dignity and ethically. If you leave without notice, break things and don't tell, screw over another pilot, generally act like a dick, you deserve to have your name splattered across this industry as a "don't hire."

I don't do my resumes for free any more because I don't have a good flying job that pays the bills anymore. My time, even though I am retired, is valuable so I charge a fee. In all the resumes I have done I have had only one client who screwed me by not paying and refusing to contact me and only one client (when they were free) who didn't thank me. That's much less than 1% so with my experience I don't think the ranks of pilots are populated by dicks! But, I do have to remind you how small this industry is and how quickly a bad reputation can spread.

Like the sign says, "govern yourself accordingly."

[anonymity]

Bonds in any form, upfront or promissory are indebted servitude and puts much less onus on the company to behave ethically.
If they insist on a promissory note, I would get a lawyer to draft up a version that has your expectations, that way if they violate it, you can leave with cause. If they won't sign it, tell them thanks but no thanks.
I will say a company like GGN that has a union contract has to follow it and if they don't, I would think if a grievance doesn't remedy the situation, you would also have enough to get out of it.
I flew with a fella who recorded every conversation with dispatch and management and with good reason, they tried on a few occasions to discipline him for things they accused him of saying and when he asked for the proof, the recordings had been "accidentally erased", he said, " no problem, I have my own, here you go. They deemed him an antagonist because of his union work, more his methods but bottom line, cover your ass if you're going to sign something that is one sided.
I have never signed anything and I have worked for companies that had them, just simply told them my handshake is my word and you treat me right I'll treat you right, if they want you they'll agree and like another poster said there are plenty of jobs out there.
Curious, does Porter have any type of bond?

P.S. Just my opinion, if you put money up front, you get what you deserve!

[gtanorth]

the PML makes the bond a non issue. If you go to AGL to get to AC (which is the case for the majority of pilots there now less a few direct entry CRJ Capts) the PML process takes more than a year and you certainly will not quit before you get the call. The only attrition happening now is either to AC which is the vast majority or in a few cases after having the AC interview and not getting the invite.

You should also know that the bond is waived if you go to AC regardless of how long you have been there.

[dhc#]

the PML makes the bond a non issue. If you go to AGL to get to AC (which is the case for the majority of pilots there now less a few direct entry CRJ Capts) the PML process takes more than a year and you certainly will not quit before you get the call. The only attrition happening now is either to AC which is the vast majority or in a few cases after having the AC interview and not getting the invite.

You should also know that the bond is waived if you go to AC regardless of how long you have been there.

Playing "Devil's Advocate", if this is true, then why even have a bond if the carrot of an AC interview is what will hold people to GGN (and not the current wawcon) ?