Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

77W
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:12 pm
Location: Flight Levels

Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by 77W »

Didn't see this one posted yet.

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/c ... d2016C0022

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... 05781.html
A Fast Air twin-engine plane flying to Island Lake in northern Manitoba slid to a stop on its belly after pilots accidentally retracted its wheels during landing.

Transport Canada said in a report that while neither the two pilots nor two company personnel suffered injuries during the incident Saturday night, the Beechcraft King Air 200 plane itself received "substantial damage to its belly and flaps."

Eric Vermette, regional manager of the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, said the agency interviewed the pilots and made note of the incident, but in the end decided an in-depth investigation was not needed because they know what happened.

"It would not advance transportation safety," he said.

Vermette said after the plane touched down, its fuselage slammed into the runway when the pilots moved the gear handle into the up position instead of using the handle that retracts the flaps.

"They’re not side by side. They are two distinct levers located in two difference spaces in the cockpit."

Vermette said the plane was one of Fast Air’s medevac aircraft, but no patients were on board at the time.

Dylan Fast, owner of the company, said in a statement that "safety of our crew and the public is of utmost importance and has been and continues to be our first priority."

"Fast Air is reviewing this through our company safety management system."

Fast said the company anticipates the aircraft can be repaired and returned to service.

The plane was flying from The Pas to Island Lake when the incident happened.

The four occupants exited through the cabin door after the plane slid to a stop.

A Calm Air flight had to be diverted while the runway was closed.

kevin.rollason@freepress.mb.ca
---------- ADS -----------
 
fish4life
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2405
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by fish4life »

Maybe they should look into the cumulative fatigue this crew had over the past week of medevacs, I could see this being a much more likely brain fart with an exhausted crew.
---------- ADS -----------
 
newcomer
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:23 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by newcomer »

What about "don't touch any switch/lever until you are at taxi speed"?
---------- ADS -----------
 
pelmet
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7138
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by pelmet »

It can happen easier than you think. Not looking carefully at a switch or lever prior to moving it can cause this and especially for people with a tendency to move switches and levers very quickly. Pushed the wrong switch the other day in the sim. Usually there is no rush.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Devils advocate, but probably regression in training brought on by fatigue, thinking flaps up would get more weight on wheels to get maximum braking.

Happens to the best, but most don't reach for the gear handle.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Meddler
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:18 pm

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by Meddler »

Let's not start that whole flaps up after landing thing again. It was beat to death last year as I recall.
I'm more curious about why did someone do this? One switch is shaped like a flap, the other like a wheel, and they are on different sides of the cockpit. I don't buy the "tired" thing. Tired makes you liable to forget the gear altogether. To me this would be like being tired enough to step on the gas in a car instead of the brake. Not being judgmental at all, I just can't imagine tired making me do that, and yes, I am very familiar with tired. Did the pilots switch seats leg for leg? I still can't imagine it but maybe a bit easier to do.
Mb it's bad reporting and it was just a regular old gear up...
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
oldtimer
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2296
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:04 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by oldtimer »

A golden rule;
Never do anything stupid ---- quickly.
---------- ADS -----------
 
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
timel
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by timel »

Weird, an exact same event happened on a be10 few years ago. The pilot retracted the gear instead of the flaps. It was a long day of work and a very stressful approach.

Normally there is a safety switch which prevents that from happening. Maybe at high speed or with a frozen switch, it can still happen?

I know it is a habit to retract the flaps in order to reduce the gravel impact or slush contamination. Maybe it would be better not to touch them until the aircraft exits the runway.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

I forgot about the gravel ops aspect, yeah thats true.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Broken Slinky
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:47 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by Broken Slinky »

timel wrote:Normally there is a safety switch which prevents that from happening. Maybe at high speed or with a frozen switch, it can still happen?
Not having had my head in many electrical drawings for aircraft, I would have thought something like that would be standard equipment. At least a zero airflow reading to keep gear from accidentally being retracted while sitting idle.
---------- ADS -----------
 
J31
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:21 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by J31 »

timel wrote:I know it is a habit to retract the flaps in order to reduce the gravel impact or slush contamination. Maybe it would be better not to touch them until the aircraft exits the runway.
Yup! Damage to the belly, flaps, gear doors, belly antennas, propellers, engine power turbine and gear case. All the work to ferry her out to a shop to fix the rest. Probably 4-6 weeks and north of $200,000 by the time she is back making revenue flights.

All because they were flippin switches shortly after touchdown.

I have never seen a King Air manual that says retract the flaps at touchdown to shorten landing distances or save the flaps from stone damage.
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by goingnowherefast »

It has a switch mounted on the left gear scissor linkage and senses the amount of compression in the left main gear. If the gear isn't compressed enough to trip the switch, the gear will retract. (same switch also tells the pressurization when the plane is flying, so if the plane starts an pressurizing on the ground....)

FWIW, the 100 has the gear lever by the co-pilot left knee...right beside the flap lever
The 200 puts the gear lever by the captain's right knee, far away from the flap lever. Much better design.
---------- ADS -----------
 
timel
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by timel »

Broken Slinky wrote:
timel wrote:Normally there is a safety switch which prevents that from happening. Maybe at high speed or with a frozen switch, it can still happen?
Not having had my head in many electrical drawings for aircraft, I would have thought something like that would be standard equipment. At least a zero airflow reading to keep gear from accidentally being retracted while sitting idle.

I took a screenshot of the 100 supplemental operational data.
I guess the 200 must have identical protections.

Edit: Just saw goingnowherefast post.
So I guess if the airplane is still at "high speed" the gear switch might not be fully compressed, it would explain why it is possible to retract the gear.

image.jpg
image.jpg (59.89 KiB) Viewed 3976 times
---------- ADS -----------
 
AEROMONKEY
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 395
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:19 pm
Location: Thunder Bay

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by AEROMONKEY »

this happened with Voyageur 795 years back in YQT...king air 200 as well....anyone remember this? or correct me if i'm wrong?
---------- ADS -----------
 
fish4life
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2405
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by fish4life »

They were quick enough to put the gear handle back down to keep the props from touching by keeping the nose extended by the pictures I saw.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rigpiggy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2858
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: west to east and west again

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by rigpiggy »

problem is a nose gear down landing, you have a good chance of breaking the aircrafts' back. A frost heave in the surface is enough to momentarily float the beast allowing the gear to retract. I forget doesn't the 200 have a J hook to prevent handle movement on the ground
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by goingnowherefast »

Yes it does, it's controlled by the switch on the gear as mentioned above.
---------- ADS -----------
 
anofly
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:46 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by anofly »

I am sorry to all, the pilots, owner, etc. Fellas. Take er slow and steady. If there are two of you onboard..." It is my intention to raise the flaps" one says, the other one says (after thinking about if this is a good idea right now or not, and looking to see where the other fellas hand is) " STOP I understand you want to raise the flaps, But your hand is on the gear switch?" You have time to verify the switches for this operation, and there are two of you onboard, so use you both......
---------- ADS -----------
 
co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4562
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by co-joe »

AEROMONKEY wrote:this happened with Voyageur 795 years back in YQT...king air 200 as well....anyone remember this? or correct me if i'm wrong?
The PIC in this one is a very well liked contributor to this board who openly discusses how it went down and what he learned from it. 2 Captains doing training, lots of command overlap, CRM mess scenario. It can happen to you. Believe me, he's a top notch guy and driver.

Out of curiosity does Fast Air operate the 100? If memory serves, the gear and flap handle positions are backwards from the 200. Makes for an easy phuk up if you transition back and forth between types.
---------- ADS -----------
 
pilotidentity
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Fast Air Gear Up YIV Jan9

Post by pilotidentity »

Ha ha to the pilot above who just can't understand how this could happen...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”