IFR flight itinerary

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co-joe
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by co-joe »

The only place I've ever done the IFR itinerary thing was Thompson. The clearance would usually read "clear to depart controlled airspace 20 nm east ot YTH (or something like that)" Basically you were fubar if you lost com and then had a real emergency and had to return. The return trip would basically be calling for a pop up IFR once coms were established. You'd fly IFR altitudes, and follow IFR procedures, but If you lost com on the trip home you really can't enter controlled airspace on an itinerary alone, so you'd have no choice but to go to alternate. Flight following and overdue aircraft, would be by company dispatch. I've never done it anywhere else than there and it was a long time ago so the particulars are vague memories.

Anybody use IFR itineraries lately?
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fish4life
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by fish4life »

I use them half my days at work
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goingnowherefast
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by goingnowherefast »

I used one yesterday. Filed from a controlled airport, 30 minutes en route, 1st leg alternate was back to departure airport. 20 minutes on the ground. Second leg was back to home, with another alternate. Total ETE including stopover was 1:15. Specified 1hr SAR time. The destination was completely surrounded by uncontrolled airspace. No airways anywhere near. Once airborne again, center gave us a transponder code and a clearance back home. Didn't even care about my time airborne because alerting started on the first leg of the itin.

Also, this is in the Winnipeg FIR
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Lloyd YWG FIC
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by Lloyd YWG FIC »

JoeShmoe wrote:This is a good post, because I had the same confusion as the OP, and basically figured it out the same way everyone else does, by getting the "WTF is this guy talking about" voice from ATC, and then air filing a flight plan. One of those situations where what the rules clearly say is allowed, is not really what happens in the real world.

On the subject of IFR itineraries in the YWG FIC, Ive had it a couple times now where FIC would not let me file an itinerary from controlled airspace to places like Cross Lake, which is under an airway but still uncontrolled airspace. Couldn't figure that one out
In order for a controller to issue a clearance he needs flight plan data in the "system" hence the filing of IFR itins with an FIC prior to flight. If the itin is filed with company, the controller has no data so some kind of airfile would be required to get a clearance. Once again, personal operating habits (as well as workload) may dictate how persnickety any particular controller or FSS may or may not be. Some FSS tend to get upset at airfiles. They know who they are and they should grow up.

As far as CYCR and places like it under an airway (CZFG, CZAC, etc), I think the ability to report out of controlled airspace comes into play. There is a need to know when the aircraft has departed controlled airspace. I know I've accepted IFR itins for stopovers at CYCR and CZFG and in some cases there were displeased people but hey, that's what the pilot wanted so I'll process the filed plan and worry about the admin part later. Nine times out of ten the controller accommodated the plan so no harm no foul.

I have no clue what other FIRs do with these animals but they worked well in YWG FIR when everyone did their job. Maybe things have changed since I retired.
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fish4life
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by fish4life »

I'm not sure on the specifics but I thought the idea with the itin wasn't that you only exit and enter controlled airspace once and it doesn't have to do with the airports your going to airspace.
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JoeShmoe
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by JoeShmoe »

Lloyd YWG FIC wrote:
In order for a controller to issue a clearance he needs flight plan data in the "system" hence the filing of IFR itins with an FIC prior to flight. If the itin is filed with company, the controller has no data so some kind of airfile would be required to get a clearance. Once again, personal operating habits (as well as workload) may dictate how persnickety any particular controller or FSS may or may not be. Some FSS tend to get upset at airfiles. They know who they are and they should grow up.

As far as CYCR and places like it under an airway (CZFG, CZAC, etc), I think the ability to report out of controlled airspace comes into play. There is a need to know when the aircraft has departed controlled airspace. I know I've accepted IFR itins for stopovers at CYCR and CZFG and in some cases there were displeased people but hey, that's what the pilot wanted so I'll process the filed plan and worry about the admin part later. Nine times out of ten the controller accommodated the plan so no harm no foul.

I have no clue what other FIRs do with these animals but they worked well in YWG FIR when everyone did their job. Maybe things have changed since I retired.
Ya that would make a lot of sense actually Lloyd, I've heard a couple times when centre asked someone to call and cancel their ifr on the ground in cross because someone else is waiting for an approach. With an itin you would never call and nobody would be able to defend there till you take off again.

FIC is hurting without you Lloyd, guy I talked to today said they are short staffed, had to wait almost 10 seconds for someone to answer the phone!
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Lloyd YWG FIC
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by Lloyd YWG FIC »

JoeShmoe wrote: Ya that would make a lot of sense actually Lloyd, I've heard a couple times when centre asked someone to call and cancel their ifr on the ground in cross because someone else is waiting for an approach. With an itin you would never call and nobody would be able to defend there till you take off again.

FIC is hurting without you Lloyd, guy I talked to today said they are short staffed, had to wait almost 10 seconds for someone to answer the phone!
It's happened more than a few times that we had to go looking to make sure an aircraft was down so that the next one could get his clearance. Now that there so many ACC pals everywhere we (FIC) don't really have a good picture of what is going on anymore. Back in the old days we (FIC) used to request a lot of position calls just in case another airplane popped up or at least asked you guys to maintain a listening watch on a frequency we could get you on. Especially coming out of CZTM. Now we just type, flush and forget.

I doubt they even know I'm gone. :lol: But seriously, ya, there is a LOT of overtime and I don't think management realizes how much they are burning the people out. We ain't in our twenties or thirties anymore. I pretty well stopped working overtime my last few years. I'd take it if they were desperate and kudos for management or allowing me to always be on the bottom of the list for being called in. (that's me sucking up to the NavCanada dude or dudette in Ottawa who is in charge of looking for employees posting on this forum)
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bigEh
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Re: IFR flight itinerary

Post by bigEh »

I have read through this thread and have a question that I am not sure was answered. FOrgive me if it was but it isn't clear to me.

If you are operating out of an uncontrolled airport, flying the whole day in uncontrolled airspace with landings and takeoffs out of dirt strips and finishing the day at an uncontrolled airport, can you just use a "responsible person" and file an IFR itinerary with them?
What about leaving an uncontrolled airport with an MF and CARS station? Would I have to inform the CARS station that I was leaving as IFR traffic?
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