Westjet cover up: Alleged sexual assaults by pilot

[Rockie]

Nobody is condemning anyone 5X5, I'm simply stating the obvious. If this had been handled properly by the company six years ago what's going on today wouldn't be happening. I'm not saying the FA is right or wrong and I'm not saying the pilot is guilty or innocent. I'm saying this has been unresolved for six years and it finally festered to the point it's at now. Pulling the pilot and everyone else involved off line while an investigation is conducted is exactly the right response - six years ago. Doing it now is a bit late n'est pas?

[5x5]

Nobody is condemning anyone 5X5, I'm simply stating the obvious.

There is no basis, obvious or otherwise, for you to say it wasn't handled properly. All there is is a disgruntled ex-employee claiming that is the case. Her claim is unsubstantiated. End of story to date.

For you to state that in fact it wasn't handled correctly is exactly condemning Westjet, n'est-ce pas?

[Rockie]

Well, we know what WestJet did six years ago is not what they are doing today now that the s**t's hit the fan. Unless the FA is lying in a court document she was not pulled off the line six years ago and neither was the pilot in question while an investigation was carried out. Today everyone involved is pulled off line pending an investigation and a review of the company's actions six years ago is being conducted in-house.

I guess you and Photofly's idea of obvious and mine are different.

By the way WestJet is a corporation, not a person.

[plhought]

...I am amazed that this discussion is still ongoing...

Don't be. Just because we've only heard one side of the story doesn't preclude us from talking about it. Have you not read anything in the Accidents & Incidents forum?

It's called news...and yes it sucks in this case when you may have a vested-interest WestJet. Sorry for you I guess.

The removal from duty is sensible now the matter is public to avoid whispers among passengers about is this that pilot or FA.

You should remind your co-workers (I am assuming here you work for 'em...sorry if you don't) the above. I overheard two FA's talking about it in YVR last night. They basically identified the guy (first name only) with a host of detail about his personal & professional life. Of course it's rude eavesdropping on my part...but come on - your employee group should be smarter than that. That's assuming anything they were saying was true - which could be absolute BS.

Not only does the company have authority, they have under Canadian law a positive duty to investigate.

I'm going to have to ask for a little more detail on that 'authority'. I'm not saying you're wrong - i've just never heard of a company internally investigating crimes which occurred under it's watch. Like actual breaches of the Criminal Code. I'm sure they've investigated why something happened that may have lead to a crime regarding their company/employees/whatever...but the heavy work certainly that's the police/court's/Queen's job? Like we're not talking about piddly hurt-feelings stuff here.

The exception to the above (of-course there always is) is the Railways Act - which allows for private CP/CN Police.

I; like most I suspect, am not too interested in the specific details of this specific 'occurrence' (I don't know what to call it for fear of being screamed at around here haha). I think the discussion has (and will) been primarily about the sequence of events and how things were handled. Which it should be. We're not slandering anyone.

Let's say you catch a employee stealing commissary. You confront him/her - read them the riot act. Then let 'em deal with it. They get caught again - you terminate them. What's to stop the them coming back crying about wrongful termination? Isn't the first question going to be "Did you call the police? It is theft after all?"

[Old fella]

Well there is more from CTV yesterday, eight have come forward. WJ has a serious issue


http://bc.ctvnews.ca/another-westjet-fl ... -1.2804896

[mbav8r]

If you want to speculate, why not speculate on the fact that she is claiming a sexual assault occurred yet apparently never went to the police. Why would she expect Westjet to deal with criminal activity? That's what the police are for. Just like none of you know how Westjet did or did not handle their investigation, you have no way of knowing how or why she made the decisions she did.

How about read the articles in their entirety before commenting, she did file a complaint with the RCMP who, I'm assuming due to jurisdictional issues forward the complaint to the Maui police who have not had a chance to question the accused because he hasn't been back to Hawaii to face the charges.
From the original article,
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... e29006732/

The document says Ms. Lewis reported the assault to another member of the crew the following day and to her WestJet manager upon her return to Canada. She also lodged a complaint with the RCMP, who contacted the police in Maui. But the pilot could not be arrested unless he returned to Hawaii.

Photofly,
The company is paying the bills on the overnights and I guarantee if you did something to get kicked out of the hotel, as an example, there would be consequences at work, so yes you are absolutely on company time during the overnights.
I would have to look through my company policies to be sure but I'm fairly certain there is something in there about overnights, I treat them as such non the less.

[Old fella]

Most if not all would agree if you are away doing company business even though not on active duty you still represent your employer. Conduct unbecoming of establish acceptable norms would be duly noted at least that was the case where I worked at the Regulator and Service Provider. Can't speak for airlines though.

[altiplano]

Not in the workplace - in a hotel.
Not on duty - after work hours.

You don't have to be on duty or at the airport to be in the workplace. Even on layover you're still on company business and being directed to be at our near that location by the company.

[Rockie]

I just want to clarify something that I think most people on this forum would agree with.

I don't know whether or not these accusations are true and it's really none of my business, so I'm not ever going to speculate on that. But even if they are true it is no reflection on WestJet the company or especially the WestJet people. There is a picture of Colonel Russ Williams earlier in this thread and I'd be shocked if anybody here thought his actions were reflective of the Canadian Forces as a whole.

Like most everybody here I know many folks at WestJet whom I admire and respect. Kool aid jokes aside I even admire and respect WestJet's business plan because it is unquestionably successful. Having flown on them many times I also think they provide a good service as long as you can tune out the corny jokes.

What saddens me though is all of you being undeservedly dragged through the mud. It must be terribly discouraging, and I totally get your efforts to defend the company and therefore yourselves. I'd do it too. It is an injustice on every single one of you.

[altiplano]

Absolutely Rockie.

I think it goes a step further. This reflects poorly on all Pilots. Whichever company you fly with we all come across as a bunch of leches when this kinda stuff is leading in the news...

She was on a layover in Honolulu when a pilot entered her hotel room, took off his pants, and chased her.

He left, but only after she ran onto the balcony and refused to come back inside.

[Old fella]

Some of the antics/stories about an Atlantic Regional carrier in the 70's that I heard/was told from those on the inside would make interesting commentary let me say........

[photofly]

Absolutely Rockie.

I think it goes a step further. This reflects poorly on all Pilots.

Only if you're the kind of person who pigeonholes people according to stereotype and prejudges every issue.

Like almost everyone in this thread.

[2R]

Emirates will be able to get shares on the cheap, if this goes to court.

[Jean-Pierre]

I guess they never mention the cool-aid contain rohypnol.
6 more cases now? With todays political climate this has the chance to do serious damage to the brand.

[photofly]

...I am amazed that this discussion is still ongoing...

Don't be. Just because we've only heard one side of the story doesn't preclude us from talking about it. Have you not read anything in the Accidents & Incidents forum?

It's called news...and yes it sucks in this case when you may have a vested-interest WestJet. Sorry for you I guess.

The removal from duty is sensible now the matter is public to avoid whispers among passengers about is this that pilot or FA.

You should remind your co-workers (I am assuming here you work for 'em...sorry if you don't) the above. I overheard two FA's talking about it in YVR last night. They basically identified the guy (first name only) with a host of detail about his personal & professional life. Of course it's rude eavesdropping on my part...but come on - your employee group should be smarter than that. That's assuming anything they were saying was true - which could be absolute BS.

Not only does the company have authority, they have under Canadian law a positive duty to investigate.

I'm going to have to ask for a little more detail on that 'authority'. I'm not saying you're wrong - i've just never heard of a company internally investigating crimes which occurred under it's watch. Like actual breaches of the Criminal Code. I'm sure they've investigated why something happened that may have lead to a crime regarding their company/employees/whatever...but the heavy work certainly that's the police/court's/Queen's job? Like we're not talking about piddly hurt-feelings stuff here.

Westjet is federally regulated, so this would fall under the Canada Labour Code. Assault including sexual assault is considered a form of harassment. Companies have a positive duty to provide a workplace free of harassment and investigate complaints of harassment when they occur.

Please note this doesn't mean that it's not also a criminal act, or somehow downgraded to "only" harassment. You should consider that harassment is an umbrella term that includes a wide variety of behaviours including sexual assault.

http://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/eng/content/what-harassment

Here is a government document that might be helpful background reading:
http://www.ccdp-chrc.gc.ca/sites/defaul ... e_en_1.pdf

As I said before in this thread, I don't work for Westjet or any other airline, so I can't help you with what some Westjet employees are saying about their colleagues.

[5x5]

Well, we know what WestJet did six years ago is not what they are doing today now that the s**t's hit the fan.

I have no clue what they did 6 years ago. I do know that a disgruntled ex-worker alleges what they did was inappropriate because she is not satisfied with how it was handled. And that is the point - none of us know. That is what makes it conjecture and speculation.

I guess you and Photofly's idea of obvious and mine are different.

You don't have to guess - that IS a fact.

[Stumper]

Well, we know what WestJet did six years ago is not what they are doing today now that the s**t's hit the fan.

I have no clue what they did 6 years ago. I do know that a disgruntled ex-worker alleges what they did was inappropriate because she is not satisfied with how it was handled. And that is the point - none of us know. That is what makes it conjecture and speculation.

I guess you and Photofly's idea of obvious and mine are different.

You don't have to guess - that IS a fact.

Lol. We also know that if they had their time back it would be handled very differently..

[True North]

Lol. We also know that if they had their time back it would be handled very differently..

Really? How do we know that?

[Big Bird Anonymous]

Any pilot that believes it is their inherent right to date rape another person is a scmbag. Any Captain of an aircraft of which they are responsible for the health and welfare of their crew and attempts to date rape a flight attendant is the lowest of the low...and should be charged criminally and their license revoked as an immediate threat to aviation safety...Westjet clearly dropped the ball!

[True North]

Any pilot that believes it is their inherent right to date rape another person is a scmbag. Any Captain of an aircraft of which they are responsible for the health and welfare of their crew and attempts to date rape a flight attendant is the lowest of the low...and should be charged criminally and their license revoked as an immediate threat to aviation safety...Westjet clearly dropped the ball!

Well you obviously know a lot more about what happened than I do. Please educate me. How did WestJet drop the ball?

[Big Bird Anonymous]

No, no, no.

Not in the workplace - in a hotel.
Not on duty - after work hours.

The removal from duty is sensible now the matter is public to avoid whispers among passengers about is this that pilot or FA.

And there is no apparent attempt to disregard this matter in evidence. I have fears for humanity if his is the best level of analysis that you can come up with.

The crew was on company service on an overnight therefore they were "on duty" for legal purposes.

[Big Bird Anonymous]

Any pilot that believes it is their inherent right to date rape another person is a scmbag. Any Captain of an aircraft of which they are responsible for the health and welfare of their crew and attempts to date rape a flight attendant is the lowest of the low...and should be charged criminally and their license revoked as an immediate threat to aviation safety...Westjet clearly dropped the ball!

Well you obviously know a lot more about what happened than I do. Please educate me. How did WestJet drop the ball?

Westjet foments the culture of immunity to social values and ethics...where have you been living-Africa?

[complexintentions]

Any pilot that believes it is their inherent right to date rape another person is a scmbag. Any Captain of an aircraft of which they are responsible for the health and welfare of their crew and attempts to date rape a flight attendant is the lowest of the low...and should be charged criminally and their license revoked as an immediate threat to aviation safety...Westjet clearly dropped the ball!

Uh...has anyone suggested that any pilot, or anyone whatsoever for that matter, considers such a thing their "right"? What a stupid statement.

There has been no proven rape or attempted rape. Not in the first case, not in any of the subsequent accusations. Perhaps something will eventually be proven. Perhaps not. But as it stands all parties involved deserve to be treated as innocent until proven otherwise.

The media is fanning this, since it's sensational. The same thing happened with the Ghomeshi trial, and then the alleged victims testimony revealed a somewhat different picture than first portrayed.

It's easy to toss accusations around. But it is odd that six years went by before everyone apparently suddenly woke up to a problem?

[True North]

Westjet foments the culture of immunity to social values and ethics...where have you been living-Africa?

Um, what?

[Stumper]

Lol. We also know that if they had their time back it would be handled very differently..

Really? How do we know that?

Educated guess. Unless you think this whole affair was Greggs plan all along?

Lots of big company's out there with lots of big workforce's.. Still this is an extremely rare occurance for a situation like this to deteriorate to this level. Obviously WestJet is doing something different on this file then the rest of the pack. If I were paying their big management salaries I would be pissed right now