congrats to the new flock of cf18a hornet pilots

[oldncold]

heard thru a friend that you fine folks dropped live 500 pounders this week, and this is a final practical formal test in the qualifications process . you are to be commended for your efforts and perseverance! especially in light of our lame ass govt expecting miracles with no modern replacement .

[Bolter]

Maybe the "Donald" will make JT & the Sunshine band ante up some bucks!
In a related note - Australia with ~23mil population & smaller GNP has ordered 75 F-35s, has super hornets + f-18s, buying 12 growlers (super hornet EW version), has 5-6 Airbus tankers, a bunch of wedgetail AWACS, bunch of P-8 Poseidon anti-sub/ISR platforms starting to be delivered, ordered 8 P-8 elint variants, 12 new subs just ordered, etc, etc.

On a more serious note - Canada has had a fairly free ride in NORAD & NATO in the past, as have a lot of our allies. Likely time countries started contributing, or stepping aside.

[Moose47]

G'day Bolter

Are you aware that the U.S.A.F. and U. S. N. were the first line of defence on Canada's east coast until the mid-1960's?

Cheers...Chris

[Bolter]

G'day Bolter

Are you aware that the U.S.A.F. and U. S. N. were the first line of defence on Canada's east coast until the mid-1960's?

Cheers...Chris

I think that if you dig deeper you'll find that the defense of North America has officially been a joint responsibility since 1957 (year NORAD was formed) and more loosely before that. In the 50s & 60s, Canada had both a large airforce and navy so I doubt that the USAF and USN were our first line of defense - they were however part of our collective joint first line of defense as we were, and are, part of theirs (during the Cuban missile crisis Canada launched the fleet (RCN & RCAF) to track the soviet ships/boats before the USN/USAF - or so I have been told by people that worked in Maritime Command at the time). We had the only all weather, day/night interceptor in NATO (the CF-100) for a stretch during the 50s. Our military began the long process of shrinking in the latter half of the 60s. Anyway, we could trade quotes & references for days without proving any points, as there are numerous sites that will give you whatever answer you want.
On the NORAD front, the US has always provided the bulk of the funding, and manning, of the joint HQs, radar sites, etc. There is an agreed to funding formula & either party has to give 12 months notice in order to pull out. Doubt it would happen unless either side reached the conclusion that the cost outweighed the benefit. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/69727.pdf
On the NATO front, the US has always provided the bulk of the funding for NATO. In the early days/post WW2 that made sense as none of the European nations had the money to fund it & it stabilized Europe. Hard to make that argument these days.

[complexintentions]

I'm all for a well-equipped, well-trained professional military.

But to my limited knowledge, Australia is not in imminent peril of being invaded, nor interested in projecting their power elsewhere. What, exactly, is all the hardware for? Some can be rationalized for coastal patrol/defense, SAR, and the like, but all...? Or as Trump would say...China?

All the weaponry in the world won't help you if you aren't spending on intel. But that's not sexy.

[Moose47]

G'day Bolter

"I think that if you dig deeper you'll find that the defense of North America has officially been a joint responsibility since 1957 (year NORAD was formed)"

I co-wrote a history book on the air defence of Canada and it was published in conjunction with the stand down of Fighter Group here at 22 Wing back in June 1997.

I will enlighten you on the U.S.A.F. and U.S.N. aspects tomorrow.

Cheers...Chris

[Teamflyer]

The US has so many air force squadrans: USAF USN USANG USARMY. You can't really compare Canada to the likes the US plays... I have no doubt that Moose47 is probably telling the truth.

[Moose47]

G'day

Here is part of a major magazine article I did as part of the celebration of 50 years of N.O.R.A.D.

Cheers...Chris

United States in Canada

The Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming!


In the Beginning
With the outbreak of war in 1939, concerns by the United States were voiced as the Nazi juggernaut steamrolled unabated through Western Europe. By the summer of 1940 the alarm bells were ringing loudly. The Germans had successfully conquered and subsequently occupied Poland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium. The British Expeditionary force had narrowly escaped the beachhead at Dunkirk, France by the skin of their teeth. These were dark days indeed.

It was not long before the United States government came to the conclusion that Herr Hitler may not have be satisfied with his conquests and might seek to expand the Fatherland’s holdings by striking against European colonial possessions. Likely targets would have been Iceland, Greenland and the British Dominion of Newfoundland. Brazil in the South-Atlantic was also deemed a likely point of approach to North America. If left unchecked, it was probable the Germans would secure bases at the doorsteps of the North American continent. That would position them close enough to launch an air assault against the United States and Canada.

Canada Steps Up
The United States took diplomatic measures with other countries in the Americas to thwart the threat, including the Act of Havana in July 1940. The purpose of the act was to allow the ‘American’ republics to assume administration of the threatened territory of non-American countries. In August of 1940, Canada and the United States signed the Ogdensburg Agreement which saw both countries share joint responsibility for the defense of North America. A United States Permanent Joint Board of Defense was named to co-ordinate the programme.

The 99 Year Lease
Not entirely satisfied with the level of security, the U.S. military and its civilian counterparts sought additional and more stringent safeguards. By the summer of 1940, U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt commenced negotiations with the British Ambassador to the United States, the portly-six foot Lord Lothian (Philip Henry Kerr, 11th Marquess of Lothian) for the possible American lease of British naval bases. On the 2nd of September 1940, the negotiations were finally completed although the actual lease agreement would not be officially signed until March of 1941. The 99 year lease saw the United States get access to bases in Newfoundland, Antigua, Trinidad, St. Lucia, Jamaica, the Bahamas and British Guiana. In return, the U.S. government transferred fifty aging First World War Wickes and Clemson class destroyers (Four Stackers) to the Royal Navy. Incidentally, all of the ships were subsequently renamed after towns in England which shared a common name with towns in the United States. The ships in Royal Navy service were re-designated as ‘Town Class’ destroyers. On the 9th of April 1941, in Washington, D.C., a pact was signed with the Danish Ambassador to the U.S. Henrik de Kaufmann. This defence agreement would lead to the U.S. providing protection to the Danish colony of Greenland.

The three American bases built in Newfoundland as part of the 99 year lease would be: Fort Pepperrell (St. John’s), Fort McAndrew (Argentia) and Ernest Harmon (Stephenville). Construction commenced in April and May 1941. Despite work taking two years before completion, all three bases were occupied within a couple of months of the start of construction.

Newfoundland Base Command was activated under the command of Colonel Maurice D. Welty. It assumed command and control of the facilities and forces that manned them. The H.Q. and H.Q. Detachment of N.B.C. was activated on the 15th of January aboard the ship that carried the first American troops to Newfoundland.

The U.S. built a large facility on the opposite side of R.C.A.F. Station Goose Bay, Labrador. The sprawling unit was assigned to the North Atlantic Wing Ferrying Command. This unit was re-designated the North Atlantic Wing of Air Transport Command on the 1st of July 1942. The U.S. also built weather and communications bases at Fort Chimo, Quebec, Frobisher Bay (Baffin Island), Northwest Territories and Padloping Island, Northwest Territories.

The Newfoundland Base Command was initially assigned to the U.S. Army’s Northeastern Defense Command (later re-designated Eastern Defense Command. The Newfoundland Base Command’s mission was to provide ground, anti-aircraft and harbour defences in Newfoundland and to work in conjunction with the Canadians also defending Newfoundland.

North East Air Command
On the 1st of October 1950, Newfoundland Base Command was re-designated Northeast Air Command and subsequently elevated to a major command status. This was followed by the activation of the 64th Air Division (Defense) on the 1st of November 1952. N.E.A.C. comprised the land masses of Newfoundland, Labrador and Greenland. The headquarters was situated at Pepperrell A.F.B. in St. John’s, Newfoundland. U.S. bases within N.E.A.C. included the following:

Pepperrell A.F.B. – St. John’s, Newfoundland
*Closed on the 11th of August 1961

Ernest Harmon A.F.B. – Stephenville, Newfoundland
*Closed in December 1966

McAndrew A.F.B. – Argentia, Newfoundland
*Transferred to the U.S. Navy in 1955

Goose Air Base - Goose Bay, Labrador
*With the inactivation of the 59th F.I.S., Goose Bay ceased to have an air defense role

Narsarssuack A.B., ‘Bluie West-One’ (BW-1), Greenland

Sondestrom A.B., Greenland

Thule A.B., Greenland

Pine Cones Grow Up to be Radar Stations
In the early part of 1950, Continental Air Command (ConAC) responsible for air defense drew up the initial plan. It met with approval by the U.S.A.F. top brass, but soon the question of cost sharing became a burning issue in the Permanent Joint Board of Defense. After lengthy discussions, it was agreed to go proceed with the plan on the 6th of February 1951. It became official with the exchange of diplomatic notes on the 1st of August 1951. The ‘Pinetree Line’ was a go. The plan would see a total of 33 radar stations built, of which 10 were situated within N.E.A.C.’s area of responsibility. Of the 33, the U.S. financed 22 stations and Canada the remaining `11. The U.S. manned 17 of the 22 they financed of which nine were within N.E.A.C... The other station was located at R.C.A.F. Station Gander (No. 226 AC&WS or the 226th as the Americans called it).

Guardsmen On Scope
N.E.A.C. built five temporary radars sites and manned them with Air National Guard personnel whose units had been called to active duty August 1951. The temporary stations were operational by the summer of 1952.
L-22A - Pepperrell Air Force Base
L-22 - Red Cliff / Pepperrell Air Force Base
L-23 - Harmon Air Force Base
L-24 - Goose Air Base
L-32 - Thule Air Base
B-2 – McAndrew Air Force Base (Adjacent to Naval Station Argentia)

The U.S.A.F.‘s permanent radar stations began to come on line by the spring of 1953. They were all operational by June of 1953 but for one exception, N-30 at Cape Warwick on Resolution Island in the Northwest Territories. It commenced operation in November 1954.

Newfoundland and Labrador sites:
N-22A – 64th Air Division
White Hills / Pepperrell A.F.B. St John’s, Newfoundland
Role – Air Defense Control Center
Phase out commenced in 1960 with Base closure on the 11 of August 1961

N-22 – 642nd AC&WS,
Red Cliff / Pepperrell A.F.B. St. John’s Newfoundland
Role – Air Defense Control Center
Phased out on the 1st of October 1961

N-23 – 649th AC&WS
Harmon A.F.B. Stephenville, Newfoundland
Role – Air Defense Control Center
Phased out after the Base became an asset of Strategic Air Command on the 1957.
The Base was closed in December 1966

N-24 – 641st AC&WS
Melville Air Force Station, Goose Bay, Labrador
Air Defense Control Center
Turned over to the Canadian Armed Forces

N25 – No. 226 AC&WS
R.C.A.F. Station Gander, Newfoundland
Role – Early Warning / Ground Control Intercept
Currently 9 Wing Gander

N-26 – 921st AC&WS
St. Anthony, Newfoundland
Role - Early Warning / Ground Control Intercept
Phased out on the 18th of June 1968

N-27 – 922nd AC&WS,
Cartwright, Labrador
Role - Early Warning / Ground Control Intercept
Phased out on the 18th of June 1968

N-28 – 923rd AC&WS
Hopedale, Labrador
Role - Early Warning / Ground Control Intercept
Phased out on the 18th of June 1968


N-29 - 924th AC&WS
Saglek Bay, Labrador
Role - Early Warning
Phased out on the 1st of November 1961

N-30 – 920th AC&WS
Resolution Island
Role - Role - Early Warning
Phased out on the 31st of July 1971

N-31 – 926th AC&WS
Frobisher Bay, Baffin Island, Northwest Territories
Role - Role - Early Warning
Phased out on the 1st of November 1961 and handed over to the R.C.A.F.

Canucks Have Control
On the 30th of June, 1952, the Commander in Chief Northeast Command proposed that the commander of the R.C.A.F.’s Air Defence Command (Air Vice Marshall Arthur Lorne James CBE CD1) be given direct operational control of all United States Northeast Command air defense assets in Canada. The plan was approved in August of 1952. The formal agreement was signed by all concerned parties on the 21st of April, 1953. One of the stipulations was that the Air Officer Commanding of Air Defence Command’s control be exercised through CINCNE. The rules of engagement were left up to the discretion of the Canadian commander.


Fill in the Gaps
Approval in March 1955 was given for the establishment of six Gap Filler radar sites between the seven heavy radar stations located between Hopedale, Labrador and St. John’s, Newfoundland. The small and lightweight AN/FPS-14 system provided low-level radar coverage.

N-28A - Cape Makkovik, Labrador
Detachment 1, 923rd AC&WS

N-27A – Cut Throat Island, Labrador
Detachment 1, 922nd AC&WS

N-27B – Spotted Isle, Labrador
Detachment 2, 922nd AC&WS

N-26 – Fox Harbour, Newfoundland
Detachment 1, 921st AC&WS

N-26B – La Scie, Newfoundland
Detachment 2, 921st AC&WS

N-22B – Elliston Ridge, Newfoundland
Detachment 1, 642nd AC&WS

North East Air Command was deactivated on the 1st of April, 1957. Its subordinate bases and units were divided up between Strategic Air Command and Air Defense Command. Air Defense Command also took control of the 64th Air Division (Defense). McAndrew A.F.B. was handed over to the U.S. Navy.

U.S.A.F. Fighter Interceptor Units in Newfoundland and Labrador
On the 11th of September 1952, a detachment of Lockheed F-94B Starfires of the 59th Fighter Interceptor Squadron based at Otis A.F.B. (Cape Cod Massachusetts) commenced operations at Thule Air Base, Greenland on a limited basis. The squadron was transferred to N.E.A.C. thus becoming the commands first fighter squadron. Their new duty station was Goose Bay, Labrador effective the 28th of October 1952. As an early Christmas present, the 59th F.I.S. re-equipped with the 104 2.75 inch Folding Fin Aircraft Rocket–equipped Northrop F-89D Scorpion on the 17th of December 1954. During 1957, the squadron converted to the ultimate version, the F-89J. This aircraft was equipped to carry nuclear-armed air-to-air Douglas MB-1 Genie nuclear rockets. During the same year, the squadron also became part of the 4732nd Air Defense Group. The F-89J was taken off squadron strength in early 1960 as conversion training on the supersonic delta-winged Convair F-102A Delta Dagger was about to commence at Harmon A.F.B. The squadron received their first F-102A on the 24th of May 1960. As an interim measure, a detachment of CF-100 Canuck Mk. 5’s from No. 433 ‘Porcupine’ AW (F) Squadron based at R.C.A.F. Station North Bay, Ontario took over the 59th’s alert commitment. This duty was carried out from the 31st of May 1960 until the 5th of September 1960. The 59th F.I.S now patrolled the skies of Labrador as part of the Goose Air Defense Sector. The squadron was inactivated by the U.S.A.F. on the 2nd of January 1967.

On the 10th of July 1953, the 61st Fighter Interceptor Squadron departed Selfridge A.F.B. (Mount Clemens, Michigan) with its two-seat Lockheed F-94B Starfires. They were enroute to their new duty station at Ernest Harmon A.F.B. The squadron was assigned to N.E.A.C. on the 6th of August 1953. In December 1953, the squadron received the six-20mm cannon and eight 5 inch rocket firing Northrop F-89C Scorpion. This two-seat twin-engine jet fighter carried out air defense duties until superseded by the more capable ‘D’ model in February 1955. The squadron became part of the 4731st Air Defense Group on the 1st of April 1957. It was short-lived though. The 61st F.I.S. was transferred to Truax Field at Madison, Wisconsin and took up its new duty station on the 17th of October 1957.


U.S. Naval Air Ops in Newfoundland
Although most people associate the DEW Line with the frozen wastelands of northern Canada and Alsaka, it actually extended out into the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. The Atlantic extension of the DEW Line was designated as the Atlantic Barrier. The U.S. Navy formed the Commander Barrier Force Atlantic (COMBARRATLANT) in July 1955. The new force was responsible for the controlling of radar picket ships and airborne early warning patrol aircraft. Headquarters for the new COMBARRATLANT was established at U.S. Naval Station Argentia, Newfoundland. The Atlantic Barrier (BarLant) air side of the operations was conducted by a pair of rotating squadrons. One was based at Naval Air Station Argentia, while the other at N.A.S. Patuxtent River, Maryland. The aircraft used, was the four-engine Lockheed WV-2 (re-designated EC-121K in 1962). The ‘Willie Victor’ as it was affectionately referred to as, was a military derivative of the highly popular Lockheed Constellation airliner. COMAEWINGLANT (Commander Airborne Early Warning Wing Atlantic) along with seven of nine aircraft from WV-11 moved from N.A.S. Patuxtent River, Maryland to N.A.S. Argentia, Newfoundland on the 1st of May 1956. Operations commenced on the 1st of July the same year. On the 1st of July 1957, the barrier was extended to a point close the Azores. Four aircraft were kept airborne at all times until budget considerations reduced the commitment to two aircraft. The WV-2’s flew a two hundred mile wide racetrack pattern between Newfoundland and the Azores. An aircraft was sent out every four hours and kept on patrol for 12 hours. Altitudes varied from five to twenty thousand feet depending on the weather conditions. Unidentified airborne contacts were passed on to NORAD H.Q. who then evaluated the situation and would make the decision as to whether or not to scramble interceptors. Continuous early airborne warning coverage was kept up until 1965. Technological improvements with U.S.A.F. shore-based surveillance radars as well as more accurate intelligence on the true strength of the Russian long-range bomber force lead to the cessation of the U.S. Navy’s continental air defense role. The Atlantic Barrier was relocated to cover the approaches to Greenland, Iceland and the United Kingdom and became known as the GIUK Barrier. The Atlantic and Pacific Contiguous Barriers were officially shutdown on the 30th of June 1965.

Northern Ontario Connection
After the United States entered the war, concerns were raised about the vulnerability of the Soo Locks in Sault. Ste. Marie, Michigan against a possible air attack by the Germans. The Canadian government granted the U.S. permission to set up a series of radar sites that would permit adequate warning if an attack was imminent. The United States Army’s 671st Signals Air Warning Reporting Company was established and moved to Kapuskasing, Ontario. The H.Q. was located in the Kapuskasing Inn. Detachments were set up at Cochrane, Nakina, Hearst and Armstrong. After some time, it was felt that the chances of any attack by the Germans was getting more remote with the tide turning in favour of the allies overseas. As a result, the Americans pulled out of Northern Ontario in early 1944. Sadly, the 80-year old Kapuskasing Inn, a Northern Ontario landmark, was gutted by fire last year.

[AuxBatOn]

heard thru a friend that you fine folks dropped live 500 pounders this week, and this is a final practical formal test in the qualifications process . you are to be commended for your efforts and perseverance! especially in light of our lame ass govt expecting miracles with no modern replacement .

Dropping a live weapon is not a practical formal test by any mean or standard. It is just an event that needs to be completed. It may have happened on their last flight, which would have been their final flight at 410.

Congrats boys, the real work and learning will begin soon. Lots of work ahead but at least you won't have someone yapping at you in a backseat! Make sure you listen to the experienced folks, most of them have been there, done that, got the T-Shirt, some of us multiple times.

[DSoup]

Australia is not in imminent peril of being invaded, nor interested in projecting their power elsewhere.

Australia is far away from it's allies and in a much tenser security climate than we are. With China flexing it's muscles in the SCS and the surrounding countries reacting it's prudent for Australia to have the capacity to defend itself, as well as able to maintain it's image as a regional power to stop encroachment of it's territory.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comme ... y-we-arent