WJ vs. AC......performance

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Squid
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Squid »

Jimmy Fallon: Thank You Duke Point for being such a great Narcissist! :roll:
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Duke p
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Duke p »

Squid wrote:Jimmy Fallon: Thank You Duke Point for being such a great Narcissist! :roll:
Don't tell my wife Squid.......I'm a "closet narcissist" .....I haven't come "out" yet!! :)

Seriously though.....I'm trying to get u guys to come over. The sun is shining at AC.....I'll buy u a pint!

DP.
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Realitychex
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Realitychex »

Duke p wrote:
True North wrote:
Duke p wrote:Ya know guys......at the end of the day we're a bunch of antagonists. We provide entertainment for others, no more. We're getting nowhere.

You, nor I are privy to the state of the Economy two years down the road. We're not privy to our respective business strategies, nor are we even remotely aware of what our respective CEO's are thinking. We could go on forever, back and forth.......all for not. Nothing you or anyone says on this Forum will have one single affect on our respective Companies down-line performance.

On that note I truly wish you guys luck. There is not one person that wants to see any group on the street without a means to feed their families.

This country needs two healthy airlines to stave off rouge ( :wink: ) upstarts that do nothing but drag us all down into the mud.

Here's to a healthy duopoly! :smt008

P.S. Welcome to the "big leagues" by the way. It's getting harder to tell us apart with all the new aircraft types and bases.......Overseas ops are very interesting, and certainly challenging, as you'll find out. Has anyone considered the "gone mechanical in Gatwick" thing yet? How many 737's will you have to send to rescue 265 people......guess you could give us a call! :wink:

DP.
Well that's a gracious capitulation, I'll give you that. :lol:

For the record, I don't work for WestJet and to the best of my knowledge neither does Realitychex. I'm a WestJet fan and an Air Canada fan and I find it endlessly amusing hearing how pilots think the business should be run.

Your "welcome to the big leagues" is a little gratuitous, and late. WestJet started flying "overseas" two years ago. I'm sure they've considered the "gone mechanical in Gatwick thing" so I wouldn't be sitting by the phone waiting for a call for a rescue flight. They have Omni on standby for that.

Enjoy the ride while you can.
Not sure you could call it "capitulating"....but whatever. Mostly just tired of Realitychex.......his/her argument did nothing to explain why Air Canada still exists today......and in it's current form. What exists today at WestJet and Air Canada was not predicted by CB 14 years ago......not even close. I will let the existing organizations in 2016 speak for themselves, they need not my help.

I wouldn't go so far as to call a 737 operation from Newfoundland to Dublin the "big leagues" however....I guess its a matter of personal perspective. :wink:

Thanks for the "enjoy the ride while u can comment" .......being very well placed on a seniority list, on a carrier that proudly flys the Maple Leaf. I assure you it's impossible not to........I'll raise a pint to "team teal" in Amsterdam next week. :wink:

DP.
Is there a Canadian flag on AC's livery? There's always been one on WJ's....

Just sayin'......

:wink:
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jetsetfly
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by jetsetfly »

Supposed to get 2 More 767's,deal didn't go through so won't be getting anymore, it will just be the 4 for now for WJ.
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True North
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by True North »

Duke p wrote:Not sure you could call it "capitulating"....but whatever. Mostly just tired of Realitychex.......his/her argument did nothing to explain why Air Canada still exists today......and in it's current form. What exists today at WestJet and Air Canada was not predicted by CB 14 years ago......not even close. I will let the existing organizations in 2016 speak for themselves, they need not my help.

Interesting that you criticize Realitychex for not presenting a compelling argument when you are guilty of the exact same charge. You have offered plenty of provocative statements and a few thinly veiled jabs, but not one statement of fact. And Realitychex did offer you some insight, as did I. Air Canada went bankrupt, stiffing their creditors and paying them cents on the dollar which is a very big part of why they are where they are today. I'm not sure why you're so proud of that.
I wouldn't go so far as to call a 737 operation from Newfoundland to Dublin the "big leagues" however....I guess its a matter of personal perspective. :wink:
It was you welcoming WestJet to "overseas flying" and "to the big leagues" not me. I merely pointed out that you're welcome was late by a few years.
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True North
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by True North »

jetsetfly wrote:Supposed to get 2 More 767's,deal didn't go through so won't be getting anymore, it will just be the 4 for now for WJ.
I was told that's because the agreement with the pilots is only for 4 widebody aircraft and the company was not able to renegotiate the LOA in time to make an offer on the available aircraft. Please tell me that's not true.
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altiplano
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by altiplano »

Realitychex wrote:[
Is there a Canadian flag on AC's livery? There's always been one on WJ's....

Just sayin'......
What are you just saying?

You guys are pieces of work. Circle the wagon and misdirect all you like. The fact is the crippled AC of years past is turning around and the narrative you're hanging into is one from 15 years ago. Yet with recent problems, a mature workforce and the end of growth at westjet you'll be wondering what happened...

3 ex-Westjet pilots in Air Canada ground schools last month...

Realitychek/bean your analytics are flawed and you certainly don't reveal the entire picture. Clearly your horse can do no wrong and with your personal grudge with Air Canada due to a history resulting in resignations, law suits, settlements and apologies, I doubt they can ever do right in your eyes...
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Realitychex
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Realitychex »

altiplano wrote:
Realitychex wrote:[
Is there a Canadian flag on AC's livery? There's always been one on WJ's....

Just sayin'......
What are you just saying?

You guys are pieces of work. Circle the wagon and misdirect all you like. The fact is the crippled AC of years past is turning around and the narrative you're hanging into is one from 15 years ago. Yet with recent problems, a mature workforce and the end of growth at westjet you'll be wondering what happened...

3 ex-Westjet pilots in Air Canada ground schools last month...

Realitychek/bean your analytics are flawed and you certainly don't reveal the entire picture. Clearly your horse can do no wrong and with your personal grudge with Air Canada due to a history resulting in resignations, law suits, settlements and apologies, I doubt they can ever do right in your eyes...
The bottom line has always been and always will be the bottom line. Focus on verifiable data, not anecdotal stories and spin.

8)
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mbav8r
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by mbav8r »

Realitychex, your entire argument is based on the fact WJs margins are higher and if oil has a significant rebound AC is doomed. Are you saying that WJ would let oil erode those margins? Just sit by and watch their profits plummet?
I find it humorous that with all the "growing" pains WJ has been experiencing as of late, anyone would try and compare a nearly 80 year old former crown corporation to one whose starting captain pay was 55.00/hr, have I thanked you for that lately, you better get your cost creep in line.
How long before Saretsky adds E175s or Cseries to Encores operating certificate? After all it was modelled after Horizon, almost identical, only a matter of time I suppose.
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altiplano
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by altiplano »

Good point mbav8 -

and when Boeing pulls the plug on the max-7, which has only 2 customers including westjet, there is going to be a gap to fill.

I wonder where those RJs or whatever will go? Then 4 types on the card? Maybe 5 if the 787 ever shows up...

Starting to sound familiar...

westjet wants into the 'big leagues' and wants to be an international network carrier... gonna show everyone how it's done. LOL.
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YYZSaabGuy
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

Realitychex wrote:Is there a Canadian flag on AC's livery? There's always been one on WJ's....

Just sayin'......:wink:
That's a spectacularly stupid question, equivalent to "Does the word 'Canada' appear in WJ's name? Because it's always been part of AC's.... Just sayin' :wink: "
What the hell do you plan for an encore? "My old man could beat your old man........."?
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Transonic
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Transonic »

Duke p wrote:
Mostly just tired of Realitychex.......his/her argument did nothing to explain why Air Canada still exists today......and in it's current form.
I think he has explained that tirelessly. A low interest rate environment combined with cheap fuel is funding an irrational expansion. Why is it irrational? Growth is sacrificing yield for marketshare. Why do I care? Our WS stock price, which is now only rising after a year of decline. Why did that happen? The street became concerned in 2014 that our competitor is engaging in destructive completion for marketshare. (Our stock started its decline prior to the Alberta economic concerns) Does ESPP align the interests of the employee with the interests of the company? YES!!!!!!

Realitychex, I suppose AMS would be also be grouped with CDG as an over serve market?
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Transonic
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by Transonic »

altiplano wrote:Good point mbav8 -

and when Boeing pulls the plug on the max-7, which has only 2 customers including westjet, there is going to be a gap to fill.

.
If they do, then the "MAX 7.5." It would be a shrink of a MAX 8 sharing the same wing structure, fuel capacity and uprated engines resulting in a 4000nm 150 seat aircraft. Boeing is looking to make a pivot due to the loss of sales to the NEO.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-cons ... 1461259670
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fish4life
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by fish4life »

One of the Max 7 orders is from southwest so I'd imagine it's safe. SouthWest can get anything they want from Boeing
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groundpilot
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by groundpilot »

Transonic wrote:
Duke p wrote:
Mostly just tired of Realitychex.......his/her argument did nothing to explain why Air Canada still exists today......and in it's current form.
I think he has explained that tirelessly. A low interest rate environment combined with cheap fuel is funding an irrational expansion. Why is it irrational? Growth is sacrificing yield for marketshare. Why do I care? Our WS stock price, which is now only rising after a year of decline. Why did that happen? The street became concerned in 2014 that our competitor is engaging in destructive completion for marketshare. (Our stock started its decline prior to the Alberta economic concerns) Does ESPP align the interests of the employee with the interests of the company? YES!!!!!!

Realitychex, I suppose AMS would be also be grouped with CDG as an over serve market?
I guess all the new hires that got on the B777 recently should just quit and apply to Encore to get on those Dash 8s...to then maybe hope for a prayer to fly a B737 :shock:
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fruitloops
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by fruitloops »

Thought I would look at a longer term chart of both WJA and AC and it reveals that both companies are pretty much trading identically. So market sentiment and reactions to both companies have been similar over the past 3 years. I'm talking trends not specific stock prices of course.

WJ was in an uptrend through the end of 2014 and so was AC that lasted just a few months longer. Thereafter, both began downtrends which both ended in Feb/Mar 2016.

Are the airlines really performing that differently? Not really when you look at the directions and timing of these trends.

One thing to note is that the price of oil traded somewhat proportionally to these stocks, not inversely as one would think. I think that demonstrates that the overall economy is a much greater factor on airline trends than the price of oil itself for both WJ and AC.
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True North
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by True North »

fruitloops wrote:Thought I would look at a longer term chart of both WJA and AC and it reveals that both companies are pretty much trading identically. So market sentiment and reactions to both companies have been similar over the past 3 years. I'm talking trends not specific stock prices of course.

WJ was in an uptrend through the end of 2014 and so was AC that lasted just a few months longer. Thereafter, both began downtrends which both ended in Feb/Mar 2016.

Are the airlines really performing that differently? Not really when you look at the directions and timing of these trends.

One thing to note is that the price of oil traded somewhat proportionally to these stocks, not inversely as one would think. I think that demonstrates that the overall economy is a much greater factor on airline trends than the price of oil itself for both WJ and AC.
Oh come on fruitloops, you're applying metrics and common sense. Way to hijack the thread.

Diatribes only!
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watermeth
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by watermeth »

that's interesting to see they both follow the same path.
do you have events for March & october 2014 besides quaterly reports ?
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altiplano
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by altiplano »

You've got to look closer at the chart though to see really what the market is saying.

west jet peaked up ~50%, and now is back down to where it was 3 years ago.

Air Canada peaked up ~1300% and back down to being up overall about 900% in that same period.
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Re: WJ vs. AC......performance

Post by aerobod »

A view of share prices over the past 10 years:
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WestJet share price over the last 10 years
WestJet share price over the last 10 years
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Air Canada share price over the last 10 years
Air Canada share price over the last 10 years
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