Okotoks Airport Closing

[blue thunder]

They won't make more money, but they'll get money faster. That's the whole point. Land developers don't give a shit about a community's long term feasability, remember that the business model is to buy low, sell high, and do that as quick as possible with the least amount of investment. Forgetting about airside, the residential area has shown plenty of evidence of this sort of planning. Between the lack of storm sewers and sidewalks, to the limited roadway access, and just plain bad layout. Hall marks of turn and burn development. I'm curious to see what sorts of short cuts will be taken when the ashpalt comes up, but I have no doubts that some will weasel out of responsibility and home owners or the town will be left holding the bag.

I've heard estimates that should the runway be turned into residential, it has a value of 18 to 22 million. If someone can put that in their pocket as quick as they can, they will.

I say they will make more money, not faster money. The Airport (from my info) never made a dime. It was a lure to bring in pilots and such as mentioned earlier. I can honestly say, that before my legal proceedings, Medd and Winters have said numerous times, "we should have ploughed over the runway from the beginning". I was even told by Medd that the benefits of 'closing' the runway were huge with the development potential it would produce. This isn't an accident folks. You might ask what I have to gain in saying this....the answer is 'nothing', I only stand to loose. You see, I am suing the project for profits that are being mismanaged. Theoretically, I should be on the band wagon to close the runway.......

[blue thunder]

Just throwing this out there without any real knowledge of the situation but instead of trying to save what appears to be a doomed airport, does anyone know the status of the abandoned De Winton airport these days. I would think it would be cheaper and easier to buy that and re surface one of the runways. I flew over it a couple weeks ago and it doesn't seem to be in that bad of condition, although you'd have to get in on the ground and take a close look. Excellent location, less build up in the area, already a registered aerodrome. Could be a win win?

I've often thought of this. A bit of grass growing through the cracks in the concrete. I'm sure the military built it like a brick sh*thouse. I need to check in to this. Last I saw, it was set up for driver's training and such

[Shiny Side Up]

The Airport (from my info) never made a dime.

But that wasn't because it didn't have the potential to. Since Mr. Winters had his thumb in that pie there have been lots of efforts that steadily worked against it. For example, one of Winter's first moves when taking over the airport was to toss out the existing pilot base. Maybe its just me, but if you want to sell to a certain market, the your first move shouldn't be to alienate a chunk of that market. Untapped potential right from the start. Food for thought: the Okotoks Flight Center at one time was one of the largest flight schools in North America. Off a gravel runway. Given the scope of operations at YBW now, don't tell me there wouldn't have been money in that direction if the intent was to develop CFX2, as originally intended, with substantial commercial and light industrial applications. Incidentally one of Winters first moves was to shorten the runway length from the original 4500', reducing the potential of the place if he really was intending to market it to the clients he originally boasted about trying to attract. It also squashed the possibility of business that would have depended on the potential for the airport to grow, rather than be fenced in. No instrument approaches, no additional areas for parking, the list is large. That Winters sold the chunk of land to the fellow who put up the white elephant on the field, was contrary to his promises to the existing residents (homeowners who had already had the misfortune of dealing with him) was more sign if the turn and burn business plan. That chunk of land could have been a gold mine developed properly. Instead a structure went up that was too big for a then fenced in airport. One almost would think this kind of bungling to be deliberate.

[blue thunder]

Looks like there is going to be some sort of consultation process on the future.

cf. http://cfx2.ca/
cf. http://cfx2.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/ ... irport.pdf

"Stakeholders" are encouraged to register before May 6 at: stakeholders@CFX2.ca

If anyone hears of a public meeting regarding the runway closure, can you post it here? I've sent in my request as a "partner" in the development and received a sarcastic reply from Medd. I'm not convinced they will keep me in the loop.

[Shiny Side Up]

abandoned De Winton airport

There's often confusion here as the De Winton strip is still there, and is currently in use by some helicopter operators. The old grass runways there are almost unrecognizable. Bit of trivia, there used to be a flight school that operated out of there until the seventies. Calgary South (still in the CFS last I looked) is the old triangle, and the east west runway surface is still in useable shape, when its not covered in pylons for driver training. It would be an excellent thing if that place could become a working airport again. I'm unsure of the reason but it has been under a pertpetual NOTAM closing it, and is listed as operated by some oil company. I'd suspect unless someone with deep pockets and aviation bent were to aquire it, it will eventually get "developed" as well given the growth rate of Calgary.

[blue thunder]

The Airport (from my info) never made a dime.

But that wasn't because it didn't have the potential to. Since Mr. Winters had his thumb in that pie there have been lots of efforts that steadily worked against it. For example, one of Winter's first moves when taking over the airport was to toss out the existing pilot base. Maybe its just me, but if you want to sell to a certain market, the your first move shouldn't be to alienate a chunk of that market. Untapped potential right from the start. Food for thought: the Okotoks Flight Center at one time was one of the largest flight schools in North America. Off a gravel runway. Given the scope of operations at YBW now, don't tell me there wouldn't have been money in that direction if the intent was to develop CFX2, as originally intended, with substantial commercial and light industrial applications. Incidentally one of Winters first moves was to shorten the runway length from the original 4500', reducing the potential of the place if he really was intending to market it to the clients he originally boasted about trying to attract. It also squashed the possibility of business that would have depended on the potential for the airport to grow, rather than be fenced in. No instrument approaches, no additional areas for parking, the list is large. That Winters sold the chunk of land to the fellow who put up the white elephant on the field, was contrary to his promises to the existing residents (homeowners who had already had the misfortune of dealing with him) was more sign if the turn and burn business plan. That chunk of land could have been a gold mine developed properly. Instead a structure went up that was too big for a then fenced in airport. One almost would think this kind of bungling to be deliberate.

I'm not convinced the airport would have ever been self sufficient, but one could hope. To be honest, I brought this project to Winters back in '98. He had done a couple projects in Canmore and was looking for something new. I would have done the Air Ranch project myself had I the funds at the time. Instead, I became a minority partner. Blue Thunder rule # 1.......never be the minority. I've learned so much in the 'school of hard knocks'.

As SSU says, maybe more success with a longer runway, but the thought of squashing the runway from the beginning was not the case-at least as far as I was to believe. The fact that he paved the runway was a sign that the true intention was to sell the lots as an airport community. I think a lot of Marketing screw ups sealed the Air Ranch's fate, but that's hind sight. I had no involvement with the construction of the huge hangar by BK. He tried buying a piece of property off of me a couple years ago, and a quick Google search of his name raised a lot of red flags. (I've never met a man wanting to do such a large deal that didn't have a business card). Once again, I don't believe that there was anything built there that was meant to be a 'gold mine' (other than the land development aspect itself). This is aviation.......but the proper marketing of the land could have went well with the airport amenity.

[blue thunder]

Haha, the large hangar guy. For giggles, I Googled his name again and found this. Someone was jilted!

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/bryce-karl-3aa90b102

[Posthumane]

I seem to remember that the South Calgary (near DeWinton) airport being brought up a number of times in the past. People from the sports car club inquired a number of times about the possibility of resurfacing part of it but it seems the owner(s) were not interested in doing anything with it.

[Shiny Side Up]

I'm not convinced the airport would have ever been self sufficient,

The way it was run? No, not in a million years. But that's hard to say since Medd has never been forthright with where money has went in the operating budget. Even when the airport had revenue streams, its operating costs could have been relatively low, but sky rocketed with a lot of unnecessary expense. Insurance seemed a strange issue. I'm sure every other airport wasn't (nor is required having spoken with other airport management groups) paying what was often quoted for CFX2's budget. There is of course the big question of how much of that budget was paying the management group itself. Direct revenue for the aerodrome was around $60K a year, addition to whatever phase one's contributions were. That there were no other phases contributing was a substantial problem, but as before, the interest in selling lots fast was a far higher priority than making a sustainable aerodrome community. Add to the fact that the Big Hangar was sold with no agreement on it contributing revenue to the airport - a sale BW organized, and chapped BM's ass. Further shows the intent.

You're right that the initial idea with BW included an airport, but that quickly changed, almost as soon as he put the ashpalt down he regretted it.

[yycflyguy]

Haha, the large hangar guy. For giggles, I Googled his name again and found this. Someone was jilted!

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/bryce-karl-3aa90b102

Yikes

[cpknight]

Received an email today about the "stakeholder engagement". Meeting on May 25th at the hangar at 6.30pm. More updated information is on the airport website:

http://cfx2.ca/airport-stakeholders/

http://cfx2.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/ ... y-2016.pdf

[blue thunder]

Did you get an email to notify you of this meeting after you registered? Conveniently, I did not. If you did receive an email, could you share it with me? matt@blueconcalgary.ca. Thx

[anofly]

What a shame to see this close. In the end if you build a few hundred houses, in close prox to an airport, the odds of them all wanting to live in the same space as an airport, or pay to help support one are low. i do recall all the free press in the globe etc they got in 90's and folks putting the articles on my desk to read.
That new street right off the end of the runway would seem to be poor planning on about 4 levels , if there was any real intention of keeping the place open.

[cpknight]

What a shame to see this close.

I'm still not exactly sure what my thoughts on this whole thing are.

In general I think retaining the facility is feasible if there's strong grassroots support from the GA community, local residents and the Town itself. The neighbours' and Town's expectations were that this aerodrome would be there and part of the community, and if that is voiced, then redeveloping the land to build houses could be blocked - the Town won't issue the necessary permits for a change in land use, etc., etc. if the opposition is there. Even with the lever of the TC-aided "closure", getting this facility managed and operated to certified standards wouldn't be insurmountable in my view. Many smaller communities do more with less, even where certified aerodromes are required.

But I get the impression that all these groups (GA community, local residents, the Town) are largely indifferent. So in that case, I tend to think the profit motive in building houses and closing the aerodrome is pretty attractive, and who am I to argue with someone who wants to make some good $$? I'd probably do the same. Especially after losing my shirt trying to make the whole "air ranch" concept work in Canada. It is a pretty strange concept for us Canucks, after all. It was a really good try, but didn't work out. So why not develop the land into something that will guaranteed raise more revenue for the developer and the Town writ large?

Overall it does pain me to see such a nice facility closed. If there was grassroots support from the GA community, local residents and the Town, I'd be more than happy to pitch in and help do my part to make a go of CFX2. But if there isn't really that support, maybe it's best if C172s aren't doing circuits over a populated corner of suburbia. Perhaps instead the best thing to come out of a closure of CFX2 could be some support for opening a similar facility in the area - perhaps some $$ to acquire/build out CEH4 (which I think is a perfect site and location, but I believe is held by a development land bank at present) as an alternative? I'd be in for pitching in to help with such an effort as well.

So I have to say I'm overall of mixed minds on this one. For me, who lives in the centre of Calgary, and who wants to be able to drive a reasonable amount of time to a reasonably-priced hangar to support my pretty basic GA activities, Springbank and Okotoks were my best bets. (Airdrie, maybe, too - but I'm not sure about any recent momentum behind it?). Springbank is pretty expensive for hangar space at present (lots of potentially available land, but maybe an incentive at present to keep demand high and supply low, with prices staying up the curve?). High River is an otherwise perfect facility, but in the result a BIT too far for me, as are some of the others scattered about. So while I liked the idea of Okotoks as an option open to me (and I've said so before, too, I think), I'm really just unsure what to think about this one.