Perimeter?

[Cheesetoast]

I've been applying for a ramp position with perimeter but still haven't heard back yet. Anyone know what I could include in resume to increase my chances? Do I need ramp experience? Or do I need to know someone in the industry to get in?

Also I've been having problems with their online application, it won't allow me to enter more than 1 employment history, if I enter more than one the 'submit' button disappears at the bottom. Anyone else have this issue?

[digits_]

Be happy. Go somewhere else. Waiting times of over 3 years are no exceptions at the moment (info 4 months old).

[iflyroads]

Maybe its a sign!

[40echotango]

You're in luck! This is the universe subtly telling you to avoid the place! Even if your wait on the ramp would be the length they used to be (12-18 months) you would hate your life there. There's lots of quality folks working there, don't get me wrong. But morale is at what seems to be an all time low, and going up no time soon.

Litter the potential job markets with resumes, we're talking 50 or more, something will stick eventually! Best of luck.

40ET

[Cessna 180]

Their website is messed up. The form doesn't actually submit half the time. I can confirm this after talking with an HR guy there.

[lazyeight]

Yes. You need ramp experience, to work the ramp, to get a chance to fly....

[Cheesetoast]

Thanks for the reply. But isn't it like that everywhere else? I mean, who else would hire a 200 hr pilot...

[lownslow]

Thanks for the reply. But isn't it like that everywhere else? I mean, who else would hire a 200 hr pilot...

Marketing within aviation is incredible. The schools get you to buy into the idea of being a 737 FO with 200 hours, then towards the end when you see that isn't going to happen the huge 703/704 guys make you think ramping is mandatory.

What did you train on? Does anyone fly those commercially anywhere? If yes and yes, talk to them and I promise in three years you'll be at least a thousand hours ahead of anyone in your class who ramps instead.*

*whichever way you go, your family will still ask if you're a "real pilot" yet whenever you see them. This I assume happens right up until you're in a position to give them unlimited free flights to tropical islands, so, forever.

[40echotango]

Thanks for the reply. But isn't it like that everywhere else? I mean, who else would hire a 200 hr pilot...

There are a lot of places that won't, but a bunch that will. Mostly Day VFR gigs, a couple IFR gigs if you luck out. You'll probably have to go somewhere small/remote to get your first flying job. Search out as many small operators as you can, apply, and hope for the best. The flying won't be pretty, but until you have at least 500 total time, maybe even closer to 1000, you won't have much joy finding a "desirable" flying job.

Even if the ramp at PAG pans out, keep looking for flying jobs in the mean time. Take this opinion FWIW.


40ET

[PropToFeather]

When it comes to low time entry-level jobs, they are generally in the areas of pipeline patrol/survey, parachute drops, and right seat driver in something where it's optional (Navajo, PC12, some B1900s, that sort of thing). Some lucky souls manage to land float plane jobs out of school, but that's even more rare. As 40echotango said, most of those will be in remote places.

You'll hear a lot of people poo-poo the ramp route, and, it's true, you're not flying while you work ramp, but it can be a decent avenue into flying. Just try to steer clear from places that have excessive (IMO, anything over 8 months) ramp wait times. Part of the reason is, 1) if a company keeps so many pilots on ramp, they're not hiring enough non-flying work, and 2) long wait times will absolutely destroy any flying skills you had before you started and flying on a rampie paycheck is near impossible. Things to keep in mind!

PS: Have you read up the Employment, Bush, and Flight Training forums? There's lots of useful advice in all three when it comes to finding a decent flying gig when you're starting out.

[lazyeight]

Thanks for the reply. But isn't it like that everywhere else? I mean, who else would hire a 200 hr pilot...

Myself and a good dozen of pilots I've worked with?

[Cheesetoast]

Thanks guys! I'll be checking out the employment forums and printing off a bunch of resumes this weekend

[lazyeight]

If you are able, go in person. Emails and faxes don't work anymore especially if you are low time. If you can do a road trip, great. If not.. pick an area of the country with a lot of operators and do a week or a few days driving around the area. If you can't do that and have to resort to emails and faxes make sure to follow up every email and fax with a personal phone call to the CP or Ops Manager, whoever is in charge of hiring. You might count yourself surprised with how it goes.

[Cheesetoast]

If you are able, go in person. Emails and faxes don't work anymore especially if you are low time. If you can do a road trip, great. If not.. pick an area of the country with a lot of operators and do a week or a few days driving around the area. If you can't do that and have to resort to emails and faxes make sure to follow up every email and fax with a personal phone call to the CP or Ops Manager, whoever is in charge of hiring. You might count yourself surprised with how it goes.

[Cheesetoast]

If you are able, go in person. Emails and faxes don't work anymore especially if you are low time. If you can do a road trip, great. If not.. pick an area of the country with a lot of operators and do a week or a few days driving around the area. If you can't do that and have to resort to emails and faxes make sure to follow up every email and fax with a personal phone call to the CP or Ops Manager, whoever is in charge of hiring. You might count yourself surprised with how it goes.

For sure I will go in person. I live in Manitoba so I was planning on a northern Manitoba/Saskatchewan road trip. Some of the bigger operators are only accepting online applications though, would it be a big deal if I went in person either way? Or is that not recommended?

[AWOS]

For sure I will go in person. I live in Manitoba so I was planning on a northern Manitoba/Saskatchewan road trip. Some of the bigger operators are only accepting online applications though, would it be a big deal if I went in person either way? Or is that not recommended?

Your best bet in this neighbourhood is to show up at some smaller operators in person such as SkyCare, Northway, Wings Over Kississing, etc. and be available to start ASAP. Your wait for a seat in the plane will be a lot shorter than at a ramp farm such as Perimeter. Get your hours there and then move on to something a bit more comfortable. There's plenty of movement right now so if you do a good job, you probably won't be on the ground for too long.

[lazyeight]

Find places with single engine Cessnas and Navajos. That's your best bet. I'd stay away from the big operators, you'll learn more too flying a Cessna or Navajo in your early career VS. right seat on a Metro. Personal opinion.

[Cheesetoast]

Thanks again, this has definitely helped! I was given the impression that 2+ years ramp is the norm nowadays, good thing I asked on here before committing to ramp! I'd much rather be flying than throwing luggage around for a couple years minimum

[Cheesetoast]

How do I find the small operators? Is there a list somewhere online that I can refer to?

[IWANTTOFLYYIN]

How do I find the small operators? Is there a list somewhere online that I can refer to?

Pilot career centre is a good one for starters.

[PropToFeather]

How do I find the small operators? Is there a list somewhere online that I can refer to?

There's a register look-up on the Transport Canada website (that I unfortunately don't remember the link to - search something like "Air Operator Look-up" or something along those lines on Google) that is pretty detailed and allows you to see all registered operators in any given province.

Also, again, read the other forums! This exact question has been asked at least three times there in the last month! (Employment forum is probably the best, but the Flight Training one also had a few topics on the subject of starting out)

[Cheesetoast]

Thanks! I have checked the other forums but haven't seen anything. I'll check harder. I'm new to this site so still trying to familiarize myself with it.