Depending on its effect, a hangover could be just feeling not 100%. Perhaps a judgement call. Same with a cold. You are not 100% yet most of us have done so. Plus, you could have a hangover 24 hours later but will still pass the breath test. Did the addiction lead you to flying when still drunk?Cat Driver wrote:The subject of whether or not I flew airplanes impaired during the period my drinking was an addiction the answer is of course I did, there were times when I was impaired because I had a " hang over" which is impaired.
Fortunately I managed to get help and was able to quit drinking completely because I realized I had a very serious problem that was getting worse as time passed.
. E.
2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
- Cat Driver
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Did the addiction lead you to flying when still drunk?
No.
I managed to get cured before I got to that stage.
It is not comfortable for me answering these questions, however I feel I owe it to those who may be in the same position I was to tell it like it was.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Congratulations on overcoming this problem. Hopefully others will follow what you did.
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Hey ., good to hear from you! Take care old friend.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Hows it hanging xsbank?
Things are just fine with me.
Every once and a while I get the masochist urge and come here to get beaten on by the experts that gladly accommodate me.
They never fail to give me great beatings and I feel better having made them feel like they are special.
You still in the Vancouver area?
Want to buy a low time Husky Amphib?
Things are just fine with me.
Every once and a while I get the masochist urge and come here to get beaten on by the experts that gladly accommodate me.
They never fail to give me great beatings and I feel better having made them feel like they are special.
You still in the Vancouver area?
Want to buy a low time Husky Amphib?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
pelmet wrote:Depending on its effect, a hangover could be just feeling not 100%. Perhaps a judgement call. Same with a cold. You are not 100% yet most of us have done so. Plus, you could have a hangover 24 hours later but will still pass the breath test. Did the addiction lead you to flying when still drunk?Cat Driver wrote:The subject of whether or not I flew airplanes impaired during the period my drinking was an addiction the answer is of course I did, there were times when I was impaired because I had a " hang over" which is impaired.
Fortunately I managed to get help and was able to quit drinking completely because I realized I had a very serious problem that was getting worse as time passed.
. E.
This comment especially brings to mind something that happened a few years ago. My company had random drug and alcohol testing, which meant you'd receive an order to present yourself pretty much same-day at the clinic. I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of it but I got a notice to present myself on a day off. Days off at my company used to be pretty sporadic in the summer and you were as apt to get a drug testing call on a day off as not. Now, being that it was my day off I had indulged myself pretty heavily the night before, as "bush pilots" (sic) are wont to do on the evening before a full day off in the summertime. Anyway I wasn't feeling fully myself and was rather grateful I didn't have to fly at the time I dragged myself to the clinic for the "random" test. Well, long story short as they say, I did fine on the test even though I felt like a sack of shit. I was pretty curious about what would happen because another guy had tested pretty poorly, also on a day off, a while before this, and the company had attempted to subject him to discipline. This was a fight I was willing to fight which was why I was willing to take the test on my day off in the first place. Turns out the test might detect alcohol but it won't detect a pretty well-developed hangover in the dissipating stage.
Still pretty glad I had the day off though, I can tell you.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
I'm curious as to how many people would regularly fly breaking the 8hr bottle to throttle rule? What is the general attitude to having say a bottle of beer and flying 4 hrs later?
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
I've never seen it Niss. In my 20 years flying I only once saw a pilot decide to fly within 8 hours of drinking and that ended with him changing his mind before getting airborne.
The 8 hour rule (12 for most companies in Canada) is easy and simple to follow. As this thread shows though, showing up for work without having had too much alcohol beyond the 12 hour mark is not so simple. I've seen a couple alcoholic pilots who only stopped drinking when they hit the 12 hour mark. The only time they were sober was at work.
Drinking heavily on layovers or the night before a flight is encouraged and respected among flight crews at every level I've experienced. Military, Skydive, Bush, Schools, Corporate, Airlines, it's the same everywhere. Consequently it is not uncommon to see crews showing up for work in less than stellar shape. However, shutting off the taps 12 hours before pushback time is at least as engrained in Canadian professional pilot culture as the drinking that precedes it.
The 8 hour rule (12 for most companies in Canada) is easy and simple to follow. As this thread shows though, showing up for work without having had too much alcohol beyond the 12 hour mark is not so simple. I've seen a couple alcoholic pilots who only stopped drinking when they hit the 12 hour mark. The only time they were sober was at work.
Drinking heavily on layovers or the night before a flight is encouraged and respected among flight crews at every level I've experienced. Military, Skydive, Bush, Schools, Corporate, Airlines, it's the same everywhere. Consequently it is not uncommon to see crews showing up for work in less than stellar shape. However, shutting off the taps 12 hours before pushback time is at least as engrained in Canadian professional pilot culture as the drinking that precedes it.
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Curious as to why you'd answer your phone and comply on a 'day off' in the first place? What would have happened if you'd woken up and decided to have a drink for breakfast? I understand your company's history here, but if they're so concerned about it, you'd think that they'd have a properly safety-vested 'Manager of Pilot Sobriety', who'd show up just prior to flight time, and have you blow/pee/recite the alphabet backwards/etc...Meatservo wrote:pelmet wrote:Depending on its effect, a hangover could be just feeling not 100%. Perhaps a judgement call. Same with a cold. You are not 100% yet most of us have done so. Plus, you could have a hangover 24 hours later but will still pass the breath test. Did the addiction lead you to flying when still drunk?Cat Driver wrote:The subject of whether or not I flew airplanes impaired during the period my drinking was an addiction the answer is of course I did, there were times when I was impaired because I had a " hang over" which is impaired.
Fortunately I managed to get help and was able to quit drinking completely because I realized I had a very serious problem that was getting worse as time passed.
. E.
This comment especially brings to mind something that happened a few years ago. My company had random drug and alcohol testing, which meant you'd receive an order to present yourself pretty much same-day at the clinic. I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of it but I got a notice to present myself on a day off. Days off at my company used to be pretty sporadic in the summer and you were as apt to get a drug testing call on a day off as not. Now, being that it was my day off I had indulged myself pretty heavily the night before, as "bush pilots" (sic) are wont to do on the evening before a full day off in the summertime. Anyway I wasn't feeling fully myself and was rather grateful I didn't have to fly at the time I dragged myself to the clinic for the "random" test. Well, long story short as they say, I did fine on the test even though I felt like a sack of shit. I was pretty curious about what would happen because another guy had tested pretty poorly, also on a day off, a while before this, and the company had attempted to subject him to discipline. This was a fight I was willing to fight which was why I was willing to take the test on my day off in the first place. Turns out the test might detect alcohol but it won't detect a pretty well-developed hangover in the dissipating stage.
Still pretty glad I had the day off though, I can tell you.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
It was an experiment. I was pretty sure I could use my "off duty" status to protect me if I'd showed up being actually impaired. Tell me North Shore if you were curious about this, do you have the wherewithal to conduct such an experiment? I did; so I did. You're welcome.
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Thanks for your honest sharing of your journey .. Respect your transparency and even greater your motives for commenting, to help others.Cat Driver wrote:The subject of whether or not I flew airplanes impaired during the period my drinking was an addiction the answer is of course I did, there were times when I was impaired because I had a " hang over" which is impaired.
Fortunately I managed to get help and was able to quit drinking completely because I realized I had a very serious problem that was getting worse as time passed.
. E.
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Not subject to testing (yet?); nor do I get days off during the season, so not much opportunity...Meatservo wrote:It was an experiment. I was pretty sure I could use my "off duty" status to protect me if I'd showed up being actually impaired. Tell me North Shore if you were curious about this, do you have the wherewithal to conduct such an experiment? I did; so I did. You're welcome.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
I'd say making a choice to drink at breakfast probably would be a good indicator that you might need help... If they detected it in a random test on a day off, how would they know this isn't your "daily" breakfast?North Shore wrote:What would have happened if you'd woken up and decided to have a drink for breakfast?
I've had one occasion to be at the controls when I was impaired... A friend arrived at a fly-in and offered me a ride in his plane, and I had already had a couple of beers having arrived a couple of hours earlier. He was completely sober and PIC. He let me fly for a bit, and I could definitely tell I was impaired... Kept chasing airspeed and vertical speed around trying to hold an altitude and fly smoothly, it was a lot more work than normal as my brain clearly couldn't devote all of it's resources to the task. I found it very enlightening.
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
The simple way to start the process of defining if you have an addiction.
Is there persistent use despite negative consequences. If you (or anyone else) can say yes to this, there may require some more investigation.
Is there persistent use despite negative consequences. If you (or anyone else) can say yes to this, there may require some more investigation.
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Someone on PPrune is claiming that they were fired....
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5817 ... ost9485103
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5817 ... ost9485103
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Guys got drunk at the hotel bar the night before... got into an argument with an American Carrier crew. Police got involved. And they proceeded to operate the next morning... at least that was their plan until they were stopped by airport police after going through security.
All hearsay. I wasn't there so flame away.
All hearsay. I wasn't there so flame away.
--In his wrapup remarks, the FAA chief said, "If you think the safety bar is set too high, then your
standards are set too low."
standards are set too low."
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Benwa wrote:Guys got drunk at the hotel bar the night before... got into an argument with an American Carrier crew. Police got involved. And they proceeded to operate the next morning... at least that was their plan until they were stopped by airport police after going through security.
All hearsay. I wasn't there so flame away.
I heard they were doing back flips in the lobby, right after they were attacked by some clowns and elephants so superman and batman had to interveen, this is all very serious information. As a matter of fact, my dog was there and he explained it all to my grandma.
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
2 more pilots charged with impaired out of Glasgow....http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/united-pil ... 2?cmp=fbtl
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
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Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
Not accurate, it's not nearly as bad as the media made it out to be. Once it goes to court, if it does, the facts will come out. Until then Scottish law forbids anyone from releasing details of the case.Guys got drunk at the hotel bar the night before... got into an argument with an American Carrier crew. Police got involved. And they proceeded to operate the next morning... at least that was their plan until they were stopped by airport police after going through security.
All hearsay. I wasn't there so flame away.
Some of you guys deserve a serious kick in the a**, I am disgusted at some of the comments and attitudes on display.
Re: 2 Air Transat pilots charged with being impaired
I am disgusted by some of the breathalyzer results.TFTMB heavy wrote:
Some of you guys deserve a serious kick in the a**, I am disgusted at some of the comments and attitudes on display.