Perimeter

[flyinhigh]

Wow, hiring Metro and Dash Captains.

I am very surprised that they cannot upgrade from within. Must be hurting to get folks like many operators are.

[Saxub]

I'm having beers with two perimeter guys right now. They said the majority of first officers are not near the times needed for upgrades. It's apparently a shitshow right now and they are hiring first officers too, pissing off a lot of ramp workers and flight attendants who have been there 2+ years waiting for the upgrade.

[Sky_Conqueror]

Loosing people fast. I know a few guys that have valid type ratings on SW3/4 that might get in direct entry. Yeah of course the ground guys are going to be pissed...but guys with TR are gold to compAnies

[goingnowherefast]

Why is everybody quitting? I assume it's captains and FOs alike?

[YQkC]

Jazz, Encore, Sky Regional, in about that order.

[Red-Bullet]

I'm having beers with two perimeter guys right now. They said the majority of first officers are not near the times needed for upgrades. It's apparently a shitshow right now and they are hiring first officers too, pissing off a lot of ramp workers and flight attendants who have been there 2+ years waiting for the upgrade.

While i'm just going to find a pillow to go cry in then

[goingnowherefast]

With the regional airlines scooping up everybody they can, it's starting to show who the weaker employers are. The good ones can stay fully staffed albeit, with high turnover. The lousy employers simply can't.

[Saxub]

I fully agree. I've known many people who have put in time at places like Tindi, Trans West and Perimeter only to leave after the things they were promised never came to fruition.

[Kosiw]

Sad truth is a business will always look after its own interests ahead of yours.

Thought Perimeter paid left seat drivers ok $$, or has that changed in the past few yrs ?

[Saxub]

If their eyes look to the red and white, no amount of money will keep someone flying a Metro for that long. What is "good" money these days anyways for a left seat Metro driver? Over $50k I hope...

[up on one]

Everyone could bitch about their employer but I'm going to start with a few pros. For example, I am home every night sleeping in my bed. I am only scheduled to work 16 days a month unless I agree to overtime. The pay is not bad in the left seat, better than many other employers. Many complaints are from the several changes that eic has forced upon us to cut cost and we all know everybody hates change

I will not speak ill of Perimeter but as you guys have seen with every other EIC owned company, they cut cost at any cost. It does what the master tells it.

[goingnowherefast]

Everyone could bitch about their employer but I'm going to start with a few pros. For example, I am home every night sleeping in my bed. I am only scheduled to work 16 days a month unless I agree to overtime. The pay is not bad in the left seat, better than many other employers. Many complaints are from the several changes that eic has forced upon us to cut cost and we all know everybody hates change

I will not speak ill of Perimeter but as you guys have seen with every other EIC owned company, they cut cost at any cost. It does what the master tells it.

Last I heard, Bearskin 1st year captain was mid 50s a year, Metros operated 704. I used to think highly of EIC and have since formed a new opinion. EIC owned companies seem to be losing pilots to the Jazzes and Encores. That's a bit of an insult to EIC's 705 companies.

[40echotango]

Well, I know they're becoming relatively junior as far as Metro Left seat goes. IIRC not too long ago they weren't upgrading good captain candidates ( or anyone really ) at any rate. They lost a lot of those senior guys and now barely have a pool to pull from. Hence the Metro posting. They certainly shot themselves in the foot to some extent by not upgrading people when they had them. However I wouldn't say that the 703/704 side is a good indicator. Sure they lost guys who were waiting for a captain opening who just got frustrated and left. But the turn over on metro crews was and always will be high.

Now IMHO what really tells you how bad the ship is sinking is the fact they're losing some perceived "Lifers" from the 705 side. I don't know exactly how good the pay is, but I've always been under the impression pay was not a problem for the 705 folks. Makes one wonder what is chasing people away from decent money, reasonable schedule, and in a lot of cases, seniority?

Obviously the usual poor management reasoning comes to mind, but that usually only makes pilots unhappy, not chase them away in droves. So what is it? Really though?

Who else has a hard time picturing these job posts being filled?

40ET

[Maynard]

I'm not sure all the problem is Perimeter. Last I saw they were payed well and good raises over a 5 year term. I think it has to do more with the Industry. 5 years ago you would stay to get the Captain time and then hope to get on at Jazz/AC/Westjet main. Now, you can get to Jazz/Encore with all FO time and have an all but gaurenteed job at either Mainline. So if mainline is what you want, realistically, who is going to stick around and get metro captain time? (Which is basically useless in 2016) It's just like Bonds. If your goal in life are the Mainlines, it doesn't matter what the pay or how good the schedule is, people are going to leave.

[Saxub]

1500 hours with right seat turbine, or left seat piston twin will get you to Jazz/Encore these days. Why work another 2 years left seat or past your ATPL if airlines are your goal? Seniority matters, so go when you can.

[CZBBYYZPilot]

So if mainline is what you want, realistically, who is going to stick around and get metro captain time? (Which is basically useless in 2016)

Hey all, I'm a new poster, but have been following the forums for a long time.

First off, I see your point about getting straight into the 705 Air Canada Express/Encore world as soon as possible. That being said, Multi PIC on a turbine aircraft is not useless in 2016. It makes you a better pilot, and sets you up for going Captain on a 705 machine at your next gig. You've had the responsibility, you've proven to yourself you can handle the training and the role. If you're getting that experience up North on an airplane like a Metro, then you're definitely honing your hands and feet skills, something that will be evident to everyone when you start right seat on a Q400 or Jet at the regionals.

If you haven't gotten your ATPL yet, and will be relying on PICUS, then you might be held back from the upgrade at your regional of choice until it's all signed off.

Plus, all the regional airlines definitely look at all your experience, and you'll have an easier time getting in with MPIC turbine experience. I know this is definitely the case at Sky Regional.

Encore still wants 250 hrs PIC (multi-turbine preferred), and ATPL. Jazz might very well take you with right seat Turbine time, but your first upgrade will probably be a big test. Going left seat is worthwhile, that's all I'm saying.

[Maynard]

So if mainline is what you want, realistically, who is going to stick around and get metro captain time? (Which is basically useless in 2016)

Hey all, I'm a new poster, but have been following the forums for a long time.

First off, I see your point about getting straight into the 705 Air Canada Express/Encore world as soon as possible. That being said, Multi PIC on a turbine aircraft is not useless in 2016. It makes you a better pilot, and sets you up for going Captain on a 705 machine at your next gig. You've had the responsibility, you've proven to yourself you can handle the training and the role. If you're getting that experience up North on an airplane like a Metro, then you're definitely honing your hands and feet skills, something that will be evident to everyone when you start right seat on a Q400 or Jet at the regionals.

I disagree. Yes you will get good hands and feet doing this type of work. As for th experience and decision making, it can be learned. The people in life with common sense, or who just "get it" will have no problem making decisions without having metro captain time. They will learn just as easily in the right seat of a dash from their Captains. 705 is all procedures. They have dispatchers already telling me this is where your going this is your fuel and this is where you'll go if you miss.
If you want the airlines go and get a number. The rest you'll learn along the way.

[trey kule]

They will learn just as easily in the right seat of a dash from their Captains.

That is a bit of an issue, flying a plane to its legal limits with pax in the back and considering it a learning situation..And I dont mean that tired old saying that we should never stop learning.
We are talking here of decision making, situational awareness, and the things that come with experience.
If the fO is not really a qualified crew member in every sense, do they really need to even be pilots? Oh wait...TC has addressed the issue with the multi-crew license. Seems they dont really have to be. With the advances in automation, I expect that in the next decade or so it will be one pilot and an assistant

In any event, it will be a few years until these pilots get into the left seat in numbers to determine if it was a good idea or a very bad one. Lets hope for the former, and that seniority numbers do not trump ability.

[sstaurus]

I'm still just an FO in the 705 world, but all the captains I fly with dislike flying with guys who went basically right to the right seat hardly doing anything in the 703/704 world. It really makes you a better pilot in every way and I believe you're missing out if you go right to the airlines. That dispatcher shouldn't be your crutch, because there's a lot of inexperience on their side as well, especially at the regionals..

[goingnowherefast]

What's the news on their new Sioux Lookout base? Anybody actually going to fly those planes?

[Saxub]

What's the news on their new Sioux Lookout base? Anybody actually going to fly those planes?

I've been told they'll be operational within a month. The hanger they are leasing from Bearskin has been buzzing the last few days. Doors open/closed/open/closed, lights on late into the evening. More activity in the last few days than I've seen in the last two years. Bearskin base workers at the terminal who Perimeter have been contracting to take care of their flights said it sounds like it will be a fully operational base. Maintenance on site, deicing trucks, counter, ground workers etc. As for who will fly them, who knows? I'm sure there's enough rampies willing to move to YXL to fly but I don't know what they will do for captains. Maybe they will try to steal away some of the higher time SkyCare Metro guys.

[flyinhigh]

As for who will fly them, who knows? I'm sure there's enough rampies willing to move to YXL to fly but I don't know what they will do for captains. Maybe they will try to steal away some of the higher time SkyCare Metro guys.

Thats easy, the few folks left at Wasaya maybe interested in jumping over.

[co-joe]

Everyone could bitch about their employer but I'm going to start with a few pros. For example, I am home every night sleeping in my bed. I am only scheduled to work 16 days a month unless I agree to overtime. The pay is not bad in the left seat, better than many other employers. Many complaints are from the several changes that eic has forced upon us to cut cost and we all know everybody hates change

I will not speak ill of Perimeter but as you guys have seen with every other EIC owned company, they cut cost at any cost. It does what the master tells it.

It puts the lotion in the basket or it gets the hose again...

[bobcaygeon]

Cut costs at any price?
Who else puts $300K glass cockpits in 30-35 year old Metro 3's and now Metro 2's after putting +$400K G1000 cockpits into Keewatin's B200's that are +25 years old?

[fish4life]

The extra payload and less maintenance cost of the glass was the reason why, I believe it was only about 2 years to pay off the system.