flight training

[Capt.amine]

hi guys ,
actually i have a bachelor degree in business administration, im good in accounting and business calculation , BUT , my dream is being pilot , but i am a little scared that i will waste my time and money BECAUSE im not good in math and physic , my question is : is that gonna affect me ? i mean will i have a problem in studying because i have a math and physic problems ?
any advice? , i will appreciate it

[cgzro]

No - advanced math and physics are low on the list of whats required to be a good safe pilot. Never hurts but not required. There are many other more important characteristics.

[PilotDAR]

Amine,

My advice is that if you are devoted to something and have good attention to the detail of whatever that is, you can do well at it. Understand that many of us here learned to fly, and earn licenses when we were teenagers, so a knowledge of math and physics is not vital. Your easy entry to understanding is to attend a local ground school class, it's not expensive. In that class, you'll be exposed to all of the math and physics you need to be a pilot. If you can manage ground school, the math and physics are not going to slow you down.

I have known really excellent pilots, and pilots of adequate skill (okay, ad a couple of really poor pilots too). One personal attribute I see in excellent pilots is their attention to detail, and care for doing things as well as they can. In the pilots I train, I look for this, so I can gauge where I need to pay attention to training (or watch my back). One measure I use is how a pilot writes. Presuming that their writing is done at ease, with their intent to communicate, I like to see care and attention to detail. That assures me that their flying will be similarly careful. So, yes, I look for things like capitalization, grammar and punctuation accuracy in what they write (hint to you), to know how where to begin with training detail.

If you're devoted to flying, and doing a good job of it, you'll do fine.....

[SuperchargedRS]

You aren't good at math and you're an accountant?

[Capt.amine]

You aren't good at math and you're an accountant?

Yeah , the accounting calculation is nothing like math
In accounting there is a simple calculation
So when i talked about math, i meant : f(x)=lnx(e) and stuff like that lol ( i hate this )

[Capt.amine]

Amine,

My advice is that if you are devoted to something and have good attention to the detail of whatever that is, you can do well at it. Understand that many of us here learned to fly, and earn licenses when we were teenagers, so a knowledge of math and physics is not vital. Your easy entry to understanding is to attend a local ground school class, it's not expensive. In that class, you'll be exposed to all of the math and physics you need to be a pilot. If you can manage ground school, the math and physics are not going to slow you down.

I have known really excellent pilots, and pilots of adequate skill (okay, ad a couple of really poor pilots too). One personal attribute I see in excellent pilots is their attention to detail, and care for doing things as well as they can. In the pilots I train, I look for this, so I can gauge where I need to pay attention to training (or watch my back). One measure I use is how a pilot writes. Presuming that their writing is done at ease, with their intent to communicate, I like to see care and attention to detail. That assures me that their flying will be similarly careful. So, yes, I look for things like capitalization, grammar and punctuation accuracy in what they write (hint to you), to know how where to begin with training detail.

If you're devoted to flying, and doing a good job of it, you'll do fine.....

I really appreciate what u said , and how u took time to write all this , you really encouraged me and u gave me a hope that my dream is not impossible, i will work hard for it , i will do what its hard ,for my life to be easy, thank you so much sir .

[PilotDAR]

It is my obligation to encourage the pastime I enjoy so much. When I train pilots, particularly in amphibians, I focus on high pilot discipline, the self driven desire to do things as well as you can, and consistently. Landing gear position selection and confirmation being of prime importance. So things like:

and how u took time to write all this , you really encouraged me and u gave me a hope

Catch me eye in a bad way. "You" is obviously correct, and is like the effort to assure that the landing gear was correctly selected and position confirmed. "U" to me is that the pilot did not really care to apply the attention to getting it right, and read "landing gear" from the checklist, but did not devote the effort to actually selecting and confirming its position, but rather just hoped or assumed it would be correct.

The right and necessary attitude to be a great pilot begins with attention to small detail, and never yielding to casual laziness, and short cuts. If I were going to sign off on a pilot's training, I would be worried if that pilot would not take the time to write full, and correctly structured sentences when there was no time pressure...

I suppose it would be about the same as the accounting client wishing assurance that the accountant took the time to write in all the zeros on the numbers!

[Hockaloogie]

I really appreciate what u said , and how u took time to write all this , you really encouraged me and u gave me a hope that my dream is not impossible, i will work hard for it , i will do what its hard ,for my life to be easy, thank you so much sir .

Smartass. You are a first class dick, unworthy of further consideration. Kids these days.

[SuperchargedRS]

You aren't good at math and you're an accountant?

Yeah , the accounting calculation is nothing like math
In accounting there is a simple calculation
So when i talked about math, i meant : f(x)=lnx(e) and stuff like that lol ( i hate this )

Yeah, even as a ATPL I'd have to dig back through my school books to even attempt that.

[Capt.amine]

I really appreciate what u said , and how u took time to write all this , you really encouraged me and u gave me a hope that my dream is not impossible, i will work hard for it , i will do what its hard ,for my life to be easy, thank you so much sir .

Smartass. You are a first class dick, unworthy of further consideration. Kids these days.

thank u sir
but i wasn't a 'smart ass' im talking seriously , u have no idea what aviation means to me , but its ok u saw me as asmart ass , it's ur problem
have a good day

[Capt.amine]

You aren't good at math and you're an accountant?

Yeah , the accounting calculation is nothing like math
In accounting there is a simple calculation
So when i talked about math, i meant : f(x)=lnx(e) and stuff like that lol ( i hate this )

Yeah, even as a ATPL I'd have to dig back through my school books to even attempt that.

omg, i dont think i still have any of thise math books lol haha , but thankfuly , everything is easy with internet now , i hope i can do it , wish me luck

[Cat Driver]

Responding to these trolls is why so many professional pilots no longer even try to give good advice here.

[PilotDAR]

Yeah Cat Driver, I realize you're right. Happily, I'm a way better pilot than I am a troll spotter. Oh well....

[Cat Driver]

Well PilotDAR we can only hope that poster is a troll and not a pilot.

Can you imagine having your life in the hands of a moron who can not even communicate in writing well enough to spell simple words?

[PilotDAR]

Can you imagine having your life in the hands of a moron who can not even communicate in writing well enough to spell simple words?

Yeah Cat, I see your point. I have faith that the Chief Pilots of the world will throw away really poorly written job applications, so such people never get into command of an aircraft.

So Amine, I have no idea of your genuine intent, I'm a pilot, and like to encourage aviation, I'm not a detector of people who have other motives. BUT, I'm also the type of person who selects people for work, and who may fly a plane for which I'm responsible. So, like most mature adults, I find easy harmony with people who present themselves as responsible adults too. Responsible adults might communicate "ur l8 im not w8ting" once - then not again when they are told how silly it makes them look. If you wanted to fly one of my planes, and asked me with that lazy abuse of English, the answer would be "no", simply because I'd doubt your care of my plane, based upon your careless use of my language.

If you're a genuine aviation enthusiast, you're in the right place, but with a poor approach. If you're a troll, what do I know, I'm not in the troll business....

[DanWEC]

omg, i dont think i still have any of thise math books lol haha , but thankfuly , everything is easy with internet now , i hope i can do it , wish me luck

[Capt.amine]

Can you imagine having your life in the hands of a moron who can not even communicate in writing well enough to spell simple words?

Yeah Cat, I see your point. I have faith that the Chief Pilots of the world will throw away really poorly written job applications, so such people never get into command of an aircraft.

So Amine, I have no idea of your genuine intent, I'm a pilot, and like to encourage aviation, I'm not a detector of people who have other motives. BUT, I'm also the type of person who selects people for work, and who may fly a plane for which I'm responsible. So, like most mature adults, I find easy harmony with people who present themselves as responsible adults too. Responsible adults might communicate "ur l8 im not w8ting" once - then not again when they are told how silly it makes them look. If you wanted to fly one of my planes, and asked me with that lazy abuse of English, the answer would be "no", simply because I'd doubt your care of my plane, based upon your careless use of my language.

If you're a genuine aviation enthusiast, you're in the right place, but with a poor approach. If you're a troll, what do I know, I'm not in the troll business....

pilotDAR , im not a troll , and im sorry if i wrote 'U' instead of 'you' ,i learned this from canadian , i have a lot of canandian friends in my facebook , sorry , but writing 'u' instead of 'you' doesent make me a bad pilot ,obviously, when im a pilot i won't write words like this , im not a pilot yet ,im waiting for my interview to get my permanent resident visa .. so im not even i canada yet , thats why my english still poor , but when i come, i wont start my training right away , i still need to learn more english ,
have a good day
,

[PilotDAR]

Fair enough Amine, I'll take on good faith what you write. It is not the purpose of the old timers here to turn true aviators away from aviation!

I believe that there are careless Canadians who would allow you to learn "i", "u" and "ur", as a Canadian, I apologize for that on behalf of Canadians who are able to speak and write in English properly. If English is a second language for you, good job learning a second language, but some of your mentors have not done you any favours!

However, like winning the job you want, receiving the flight training and mentoring you want goes more easily if you appeal to those who have what you want, because you conduct (communicate) as they do. Sure, any flight training organization will take you money, but beyond that, you would like to appear professional.

For whatever reason, English has become the language of aviation internationally. Communicating well in English is a good start to being well received in aviation, particularly in Canada. No disrespect to the French of Canada, who's society in Canada is every bit as well founded as English, but English is the common aviation language. I recommend you learn to use it as well as you would like to be perceived as the pilot you would like to be.

So, just to mentor a little (we'll come back to piloting shortly, I'm sure), The first letter in a sentence or a name is always capitalized ("I" is a person, so is always capitalized out of respect as a person). Other than "I" and "a", all other words in English are composed of two or more letters, please figure out what the whole spelling is, and use it as you write.

During you flight training, you will sit at the airport, and watch other pilots learn, and hopefully learn by observation of others. Do that here too, by watching how other posters write. If I see a pilot abusing a plane at an airport, and I have the opportunity, I may go and have a discussion with them as to how the airplane and aviation safety would appreciate a more caring approach to piloting. 'Same thing for communication, if I see it going wrong, I may say something...

So as Amine, who has unfortunately has been accused of trollizm (not a real word - yet) extricates themselves, how can we help with the original question? Briefly, the math and physics is not going o slow you down learning to be a pilot. I've known people (who were born English in Canada) who could not read and write worth a darn, who became pilots!

[Capt.amine]

Fair enough Amine, I'll take on good faith what you write. It is not the purpose of the old timers here to turn true aviators away from aviation!

I believe that there are careless Canadians who would allow you to learn "i", "u" and "ur", as a Canadian, I apologize for that on behalf of Canadians who are able to speak and write in English properly. If English is a second language for you, good job learning a second language, but some of your mentors have not done you any favours!

However, like winning the job you want, receiving the flight training and mentoring you want goes more easily if you appeal to those who have what you want, because you conduct (communicate) as they do. Sure, any flight training organization will take you money, but beyond that, you would like to appear professional.

For whatever reason, English has become the language of aviation internationally. Communicating well in English is a good start to being well received in aviation, particularly in Canada. No disrespect to the French of Canada, who's society in Canada is every bit as well founded as English, but English is the common aviation language. I recommend you learn to use it as well as you would like to be perceived as the pilot you would like to be.

So, just to mentor a little (we'll come back to piloting shortly, I'm sure), The first letter in a sentence or a name is always capitalized ("I" is a person, so is always capitalized out of respect as a person). Other than "I" and "a", all other words in English are composed of two or more letters, please figure out what the whole spelling is, and use it as you write.

During you flight training, you will sit at the airport, and watch other pilots learn, and hopefully learn by observation of others. Do that here too, by watching how other posters write. If I see a pilot abusing a plane at an airport, and I have the opportunity, I may go and have a discussion with them as to how the airplane and aviation safety would appreciate a more caring approach to piloting. 'Same thing for communication, if I see it going wrong, I may say something...

So as Amine, who has unfortunately has been accused of trollizm (not a real word - yet) extricates themselves, how can we help with the original question? Briefly, the math and physics is not going o slow you down learning to be a pilot. I've known people (who were born English in Canada) who could not read and write worth a darn, who became pilots!

Yes sir now I understand, and also I learned a few words in this conversation (extricates-sentence... Etc) , Thank You so much , Im just new in avcanada , That's why I didnt write well . But im gonna better myself on this , thank you , because if you didn't mention this to me and bring it up , I would still do the same mistake.

[PilotDAR]

But im gonna better myself on this , thank you , because if you didn't mention this to me and bring it up , I would still do the same mistake.

That's the spirit!

Use your new skills, and ask more questions.....

[Capt.amine]

But im gonna better myself on this , thank you , because if you didn't mention this to me and bring it up , I would still do the same mistake.

That's the spirit!

Use your new skills, and ask more questions.....

Hey pilotDar , I wanna ask you a question out of the subject please .
My dream company in the future is : air Canada express , because I love the CRJ aircraft
But , when I looked in the website of Air Canada express, I found that the pilot's bases are : Calgary and Toronto And Montreal, but Im gonna be living in Winnipeg, my wife told me that I can still living in Winnipeg if Im working for Air Canada ( my wife loves her city so she won't leave Winnipeg), but I'd rather to ask you , because I know thar you may have the answer . So can I still live in Winnipeg as a base if Im working for AC express one day ?

[PilotDAR]

Sorry Amine, I don't know enough about Air Canada operations to know about staffing their bases.

That said, Harv Air, at St Andrews, is a super place to learn to fly, and build experience, so Winnipeg is a fine base to begin your flying career. It will take a number of years to build your experience to be eligible to be hired by Air Canada, so don't limit your thinking in the mean time....

[Capt.amine]

Sorry Amine, I don't know enough about Air Canada operations to know about staffing their bases.

That said, Harv Air, at St Andrews, is a super place to learn to fly, and build experience, so Winnipeg is a fine base to begin your flying career. It will take a number of years to build your experience to be eligible to be hired by Air Canada, so don't limit your thinking in the mean time....

Ok thank you sir , no problem if you don't know enough about AC , And yeah , Im planning to study at harv's air , I did so many research about both schools , harv's and Winnipeg aviation , and I heard so many good things about harv's , it has a good reputation,
The whole program will cost me about $53000 , and Im planning to get a student loan, what do you think about it ? Is it a good idea?.
So about starting my career , I did some research about perimeter aviation, so I guess once I get my Cpl/ multi IFR , I will apply for a ramp position at perimeter and wait for the right seat , or I will try to get a job at harv's air as a flight instructor, so I will appreciate your advice, which is better? Flight instructor or handling the wait in the ramp?

[PilotDAR]

Amine, My personal progress through a flying career has been very uncommon, so I am a lesser good person to provide "what's the best path to the cockpit" advice. It's not that I am unwilling, but rather that my experience is very difficult to align with the real opportunities for many new pilots.

I do have a few thoughts which are related:

You cannot go wrong building your piloting experience in a modest, though safe, plane you own. I bought a decent C 150 29 years ago, and flew it within my means, amassing lots of great piloting experience in it. I never really had a succession plan for it, so I still own and fly it regularly. I don't care what people think of C 150's or other modest planes, it has served me excellently well.

Personally, I m un nerved by eager new instructors being the only source of training for eager new students. Yes, new instructors have a valuable role, but student pilots also need some really experienced guidance, so I like the idea of an instructor who has a few hundred hours of actually more adventurous flying, then just the circuit, and to and from the practice area. I like more, grey haired instructors, with 40 year flying under their belt - we need to value these pilots.

I am not impressed as to what type of plane a job candidate a pilot flies. I am impressed by a job candidate pilot who demonstrates the initiative to gather great flying experience in a modest plane they bought, and assist in maintaining - that's the kind of pilot I want when a situation changes, and extra thinking is needed. I don't care what the paint job looks like, I care that you made it happen for yourself, rather than just following the pack. I don't care if you turned up in a rented SR22 as much as I care that you helped the AME install the engine in your modest 150 - and you actually know something about it.

If you can afford the modest plane, even as just a partner, don't be ashamed of taking a ramp job. It is not glamorous, but it is your opportunity to rise to the position, give it your best effort - and to be seen by decision makers as a person who will do a good job at any task they are assigned, not just the jobs they like for themselves. But, a little bit of flying during such emplyment is a great idea to keep your skills up. That IS how my career started, on the ramp at YYZ, and getting promoted up, because I worked hard at it. No one wants a ramp job really, so the people who will do it, and do it with pride, will please a good employer, and make themselves memorable when promotions are considered - but you can't let you piloting skills suffer.

On the other hand, the new instructor must compete with many other pilots for that job, and doing it well is a little more difficult to impress the boss with, though still possible. The experience you gain in the role of instructor, though flying, won't make you a well rounded pilot as fast as getting out on your own, on your own initiative, making and correcting your own mistakes, in different flying environments.

[5x5]

PilotDAR, I realize it's your own opinion but my opinion certainly differs. I certainly do feel the last two comments in your summary are simply incorrect.

On the other hand, the new instructor must compete with many other pilots for that job, and doing it well is a little more difficult to impress the boss with, though still possible.

Any CFI worth the position will be extremely impressed by any new Class 4 that displays a good attitude and willingness to learn.

The experience you gain in the role of instructor, though flying, won't make you a well rounded pilot as fast as getting out on your own, on your own initiative, making and correcting your own mistakes, in different flying environments.

Depending how you define fast, a new instructor will accumulate hours much more rapidly than almost any new pilot flying their own airplane. And if you take the average instructor with 300 hours instructing and the average new pilot with 300 hours of their own recreational flying, in almost all cases the instructor will be the better pilot.

*edited to correct the Forum's incorrect quote attribution