Pilot Career Options with no RAIC

[123123]

Hello everyone. In another thread someone said there are many good flying jobs in Canada that do not require a RAIC, I am looking for some examples where there is good pay, good location, good schedule and no RAIC required. By good location I mean close to larger centres. Thanks.

[cncpc]

Hello everyone. In another thread someone said there are many good flying jobs in Canada that do not require a RAIC, I am looking for some examples where there is good pay, good location, good schedule and no RAIC required. By good location I mean close to larger centres. Thanks.

Technically, there is no job you can't have without a RAIC. The options are RAIC or be escorted by someone who has a RAIC. If you're flying where RAICs are the norm, your employer may not want the inconvenience of you having to be escorted.

I think its easier to list the jobs where a RAIC is needed. If I remember correctly it is at certain designated airports and where you require access to restricted areas. It doesn't apply at probably 98% of Canadian airports, and likely not in places like FBOs even at designated airports.

I doubt that too many corporate jobs require a RAIC, for instance, or any bush work, instructing, ag work, the firebombing guys. A rule of thumb might be that if you have to go through security screening to get to your aircraft, it probably requires a RAIC.

[Ki-ll]

Hello everyone. In another thread someone said there are many good flying jobs in Canada that do not require a RAIC, I am looking for some examples where there is good pay, good location, good schedule and no RAIC required. By good location I mean close to larger centres. Thanks.

Technically, there is no job you can't have without a RAIC. The options are RAIC or be escorted by someone who has a RAIC. If you're flying where RAICs are the norm, your employer may not want the inconvenience of you having to be escorted.

I think its easier to list the jobs where a RAIC is needed. If I remember correctly it is at certain designated airports and where you require access to restricted areas. It doesn't apply at probably 98% of Canadian airports, and likely not in places like FBOs even at designated airports.

I doubt that too many corporate jobs require a RAIC, for instance, or any bush work, instructing, ag work, the firebombing guys. A rule of thumb might be that if you have to go through security screening to get to your aircraft, it probably requires a RAIC.

I am not sure about other airports but from what I heard corporate jobs at YYZ require a RAIC, I am not sure why since there is no screening but that's the case.

[telex]

Position Title: Cabin Service and Cleaning Attendant

Conditions of Employment:

Candidates must also pass security clearance and obtain the Transport Canada security card (MOT). (To obtain this security clearance candidates must undergo a thorough criminal background search, please see Transport Canada website for additional details).

Objective

The objective of this Program is to prevent the uncontrolled entry into a restricted area of a listed airport by any individual who;

is known or suspected to be involved in activities directed toward or in support of the threat or use of acts of serious violence against persons or property;
is known or suspected to be a member of an organization which is known or suspected to be involved in activities directed towards or in support of the threat or use of acts of serious violence against people or property;
is suspected of being closely associated with an individual who is known or suspected of;
being involved in activities referred to in paragraph (a);
being a member of an organization referred to in paragraph (b); or
bring a member of an organization referred to in subsection (e) hereunder.
the Minister reasonably believes, on a balance of probabilities, may be prone or induced to;
commit an act that may be unlawfully interfere with civil aviation; or
assist or abet any person to commit an act that may unlawfully interfere with civil aviation.
is know or suspected to be or to have been a member of or a participant in activities of criminal organizations as defined in Subsection 467.1 and 467.11 (1) of the Criminal Code of Canada;
is a member of a terrorist group as defined in Section 83.01 (1)(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada.
The Program is in place to determine whether a person poses a risk to transportation security.

I doubt that too many corporate jobs require a RAIC

Or... the guy that owns the $40 million airplane might not be too keen on hiring a guy or girl with a criminal record he or she doesn't seem willing to acknowledge?

Your options as a pilot without a RAIC are extremely limited, at best, given the conditions you require.

[cncpc]

Hello everyone. In another thread someone said there are many good flying jobs in Canada that do not require a RAIC, I am looking for some examples where there is good pay, good location, good schedule and no RAIC required. By good location I mean close to larger centres. Thanks.

Technically, there is no job you can't have without a RAIC. The options are RAIC or be escorted by someone who has a RAIC. If you're flying where RAICs are the norm, your employer may not want the inconvenience of you having to be escorted.

I think its easier to list the jobs where a RAIC is needed. If I remember correctly it is at certain designated airports and where you require access to restricted areas. It doesn't apply at probably 98% of Canadian airports, and likely not in places like FBOs even at designated airports.

I doubt that too many corporate jobs require a RAIC, for instance, or any bush work, instructing, ag work, the firebombing guys. A rule of thumb might be that if you have to go through security screening to get to your aircraft, it probably requires a RAIC.

I am not sure about other airports but from what I heard corporate jobs at YYZ require a RAIC, I am not sure why since there is no screening but that's the case.

Some provinces forbid or frown on employers who deny employment as a result of criminal record/history checks. In those places, some employers will create a requirement for a RAIC where the airport doesn't actually have one, as a workaround to directly seeking a record check. It is contrary to the spirit of human rights legislation, but...

I would also think that a lot of, or all, corporate jobs at YYZ require the ability to enter the US. A RAIC, in that it incorporates any potential exclusions to US entry, works to ensure that. And maybe corporate stuff does go into a restricted area at that airport.

[cncpc]

Objective

The objective of this Program is to prevent the uncontrolled entry into a restricted area of a listed airport by any individual who;

is known or suspected to be involved in activities directed toward or in support of the threat or use of acts of serious violence against persons or property;
is known or suspected to be a member of an organization which is known or suspected to be involved in activities directed towards or in support of the threat or use of acts of serious violence against people or property;
is suspected of being closely associated with an individual who is known or suspected of;
being involved in activities referred to in paragraph (a);
being a member of an organization referred to in paragraph (b); or
bring a member of an organization referred to in subsection (e) hereunder.
the Minister reasonably believes, on a balance of probabilities, may be prone or induced to;
commit an act that may be unlawfully interfere with civil aviation; or
assist or abet any person to commit an act that may unlawfully interfere with civil aviation.
is know or suspected to be or to have been a member of or a participant in activities of criminal organizations as defined in Subsection 467.1 and 467.11 (1) of the Criminal Code of Canada;
is a member of a terrorist group as defined in Section 83.01 (1)(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada.
The Program is in place to determine whether a person poses a risk to transportation security.

I doubt that too many corporate jobs require a RAIC

Or... the guy that owns the $40 million airplane might not be too keen on hiring a guy or girl with a criminal record he or she doesn't seem willing to acknowledge?

Your options as a pilot without a RAIC are extremely limited, at best, given the conditions you require.

As anyone should be able to see, the RAIC approval process has gone far beyond the objectives stated above, and utilizes tactics not considered appropriate in what people think the Canadian justice system stands for. We haven't previously accepted, and never should, that we or a fellow citizen should be denied the opportunity to work because of "suspicion". What the police "suspect" never has negative long term consequences for the suspect except in a police state. It is courts of law, not police, who visit negative consequences based on proven suspicions, i.e. convictions.

Very very few convictions under the Criminal Code would have anything to do with the objectives of the legislation.

You are not being helpful in you wild statement that options without a RAIC are extremely limited. Other than sked airlines operating into designated airports, nobody needs a RAIC.

I find it odd that being a member of a terrorist organization is listed last, instead of first, as a reason for exclusion.

Someone has already pointed out that being denied for a RAIC doesn't stop you from being a pilot, or put you on a no fly list.

As far as unwilling to acknowledge, I think you miss the point that a criminal record is not a public record, other than in the court files where it was incurred, and in many case now, not even there. Criminal records are protected by privacy legislation. If they weren't, employers could directly ask the RCMP for a record check. The workaround is that employers force people, in some provinces, to reveal a criminal record by authorizing an invasion of their own privacy.

All of that takes place against a background of very low conviction rates compared to all offences recorded, and even lower against all offences committed. Probably 95% of offenders are never convicted. Likely an only marginally smaller percentage are ever suspected. Unless they loaned their car to a guy who once dated the sister of a Mac Donalds employee who played pee wee hockey with a prospect for the Hell's Angels, every one of those people can get a RAIC.

[Ki-ll]

Technically, there is no job you can't have without a RAIC. The options are RAIC or be escorted by someone who has a RAIC. If you're flying where RAICs are the norm, your employer may not want the inconvenience of you having to be escorted.

I think its easier to list the jobs where a RAIC is needed. If I remember correctly it is at certain designated airports and where you require access to restricted areas. It doesn't apply at probably 98% of Canadian airports, and likely not in places like FBOs even at designated airports.

I doubt that too many corporate jobs require a RAIC, for instance, or any bush work, instructing, ag work, the firebombing guys. A rule of thumb might be that if you have to go through security screening to get to your aircraft, it probably requires a RAIC.

I am not sure about other airports but from what I heard corporate jobs at YYZ require a RAIC, I am not sure why since there is no screening but that's the case.

Some provinces forbid or frown on employers who deny employment as a result of criminal record/history checks. In those places, some employers will create a requirement for a RAIC where the airport doesn't actually have one, as a workaround to directly seeking a record check. It is contrary to the spirit of human rights legislation, but...

I would also think that a lot of, or all, corporate jobs at YYZ require the ability to enter the US. A RAIC, in that it incorporates any potential exclusions to US entry, works to ensure that. And maybe corporate stuff does go into a restricted area at that airport.

I didn't think of it in that light but now it makes total sense. Grab the little man by the balls and hold it like that.

[AuxBatOn]

If the little man kept his balls in his pants, the "institution" would not be able to grab them. Live a clean, honest life and you won't have troubles with mundane things like this.

[DanWEC]

If the little man kept his balls in his pants, the "institution" would not be able to grab them. Live a clean, honest life and you won't have troubles with mundane things like this.

True, but how sanctimonious.

[AuxBatOn]

We all mess up, we just need to accept the consequences of our actions. For things like criminal records, it's not difficult to figure our what and what not to do...

[Ki-ll]

The point above was about abuse of RAIC system by employers. I can hardly see how keeping balls in pants will solve that issue.

[Longtimer]

The point above was about abuse of RAIC system by employers. I can hardly see how keeping balls in pants will solve that issue.

How do the employers abuse the RAIC? If you can not qualify for a RAIC that is hardly their fault and just perhaps they want to weed out those who have crossed the line in the past and do want to employ them? If you don't qualify and for some reason take their aircraft into an airport that has this requirement, why would they not want you to have one? That is of course their prerogative.

[ahramin]

Instructing, 703, Northern 704, lots of corporate operators, floats ... There are many pilot jobs and careers that do not require a RAIC. Only 2 places I worked at required a RAIC, and I was at the first place 2 years without actually getting a RAIC.

[telex]

You are not being helpful in you wild statement that options without a RAIC are extremely limited.

I wasn't trying to be helpful. I was trying to be realistic. There is nothing wild about that.

Instructing, 703, Northern 704, lots of corporate operators, floats ...

OP also requires good pay, schedule, and location (near larger centres).

[cncpc]

The point above was about abuse of RAIC system by employers. I can hardly see how keeping balls in pants will solve that issue.

How do the employers abuse the RAIC? If you can not qualify for a RAIC that is hardly their fault and just perhaps they want to weed out those who have crossed the line in the past and do want to employ them? If you don't qualify and for some reason take their aircraft into an airport that has this requirement, why would they not want you to have one? That is of course their prerogative.

It is an abuse of the pass system to use it as a means of determining whether or not an employee has a criminal record in a jurisdiction which forbids denial of employment based on a conviction as an unlawful form of discrimination. Some airports which are not designated airports have carriers nonetheless sending their employees for RAIC approval. That is not considered acceptable and it is known that it is an attempt to circumvent privacy laws. It has been an issue at at least one Northern airport.

You don't get a RAIC for occasional visits to a designated airport. You just go through whatever supervision they have for non pass pilots. I used to stop overnight in Sudbury and park on the Air Canada ramp beside the terminal for that FBO right there. You could get out of your aircraft along with pax and wander about, but once you were inside, you had to be officially let back outside, but I don't recall ever being screened, in fact there was no screening there. But there was a process.

South Terminal Vancouver you used to have to show your pilot's license, then it seemed to be that a commissionaire had to walk you onto the ramp. Don't know what its like now. May be a restricted area so that unsecured don't disembark into secured at places like Victoria. I see Pacific Coastal now requires ability to obtain a RAIC. Do they use the main terminal or is south side RAIC now as well.

You may notice when you're downstream of security at places like Calgary and Edmonton that workers coming from the bowels of the terminal are always being searched by CATSA people inside the screened area. These are people who haven't yet received their passes.

[ahramin]

You are not being helpful in you wild statement that options without a RAIC are extremely limited.

I wasn't trying to be helpful. I was trying to be realistic. There is nothing wild about that.

Instructing, 703, Northern 704, lots of corporate operators, floats ...

OP also requires good pay, schedule, and location (near larger centres).

I guess if the only thing that qualifies is making $250k a year flying 4 days a month living in Vancouver then no, you'll need a RAIC. If $70k a year working 3-4 days a week living in any city in Canada with more than 300 000 people then all those options above are available and you don't need a RAIC (except for the northern one, but Whitehorse is quite nice).

[valleyboy]

I am looking for some examples where there is good pay, good location, good schedule and no RAIC required. By good location I mean close to larger centres. Thanks.

Now that is a complete oxymoron.

[HHI]

South Terminal Vancouver you used to have to show your pilot's license, then it seemed to be that a commissionaire had to walk you onto the ramp. Don't know what its like now. May be a restricted area so that unsecured don't disembark into secured at places like Victoria. I see Pacific Coastal now requires ability to obtain a RAIC. Do they use the main terminal or is south side RAIC now as well.

South Terminal requires RAIC, airline OPS only. 2 exceptions are Charitable org GA aircraft - (Angel Flight and Hope Air) which require showing pilot licencse and YVR OPS escort.

GA and corporate use FBO's and are given ramp access by FBO staff.

HHI