Sunwing captain passed out drunk in cockpit

[BCnomad]

All these self righteous Canadian pilots blathering on about how high and mighty they are compared to the rest of the world. As if there has never been a Canadian that has had a few beers or caught behind the wheel of anything. Wake up and smell the coffee boys and girls - your not perfect.

BTW - the TWP has nothing to do with a guy who is an alcoholic or just plane stupid.

Moreover, for all you bitching god like wanna be pilots, there are Canadians working overseas in other countries under various work visas.. But I guess that is ok...

[Jimmy2]

I'd imagine most Canadians flying abroad are there because the positions can't be filled by local pilots. Good point about the drinking though. It's a worldwide problem it seems.

[LifeAt90Kts]

I was under the impression Sunwing had a reciprocal agreement with a euro carrier. Some of their pilots come over here during our busy winter holiday season, some Canadians go over there during their busy summer holiday season. I may be completely wrong as I got that from a buddy who flies for Sunwing, but gets sent to Poland to fly the summers there.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

From what I just learned, this guy was allegedly a Slovakian National on a work permit who was about to fly a Canadian registered aircraft on a FLVC issued by Transport Canada.

Canada is the only industrialized country that allows foreign licensed pilot to fly its commercial aircraft.

Slovakia, the country where this gentleman is allegedly from, does not allow Canadian licensed pilots to fly Slovakian commercial aircraft. No European country does. Nor does the USA, Australia or New Zealand. Canada is unique in that sense.

Yet people at Transport Canada see no problem with that. How does one explain this ?

In fact, just last summer, Transport Canada modified CASS 421.07(2)(j) to legalize issuing FLVCs to Foreign pilots for commercial flying.

Who benefits ? Sunwing.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I was under the impression Sunwing had a reciprocal agreement with a euro carrier. Some of their pilots come over here during our busy winter holiday season, some Canadians go over there during their busy summer holiday season. I may be completely wrong as I got that from a buddy who flies for Sunwing, but gets sent to Poland to fly the summers there.

Sunwing pilots go overseas on Wetleases, flying their own Canadian registered aircraft because European Aviation authorities do not allow Canadian pilots to fly European registered aircraft commercially.

This guy was allegedly in Canada on a work permit flying Canadian registered aircraft with a European license.

Foreign pilots should come here to fly their own aircraft on wet-leases, not Canadian registered aircraft.

[a380super]

-well wait a minute ...talking about "canadian registered "aircraft:registration is just a number that can be changed overnight... bunch of them have their registration changed during the winter..those "c-registered" aircraft are actually coming from Europe (TVS, Thomson..). So at the end of the day those foreign guys also fly somehow their own aircraft here in canada ....and also give canadian pilots job in winter.

-Good post Bcnomad.

[ogopogo]

I am not an airline pilot but.....isn't there a pilot briefing an hour before the flight? Routing, weather, manifest, etc? There is something fishy or missing with this story. The article states the co-pilot "found" the pilot preparing and then slumped over.

[Dh8Classic]

He was Captain too. A 37 year old drunk Slovakian can be a jet captain in Canada and I can't get an interview for a regional turboprop job because of all the competition.

I thought he might be an AT guy temporarily on leave after a little dust-up in Scotland. Oh well, back when it mattered more, I wasn't qualified to get an interview at AT because of all the "competition". So basically, the same thing, drunk pilots and a closed shop.

[confuzed]

He was Captain too. A 37 year old drunk Slovakian can be a jet captain in Canada and I can't get an interview for a regional turboprop job because of all the competition.

I thought he might be an AT guy temporarily on leave after a little dust-up in Scotland. Oh well, back when it mattered more, I wasn't qualified to get an interview at AT because of all the "competition". So basically, the same thing, drunk pilots and a closed shop.

Really? That is BEST thing you can come up with when the shoe is on the other foot? I see you are still a little bit bitter that AT never called you for a groundschool because of an "apparent" language problem. I think their HR saw past the language problem and saw a bit of an ATTITUDE problem. Wow....unreal.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

-well wait a minute ...talking about "canadian registered "aircraft:registration is just a number that can be changed overnight... bunch of them have their registration changed during the winter..those "c-registered" aircraft are actually coming from Europe (TVS, Thomson..). So at the end of the day those foreign guys also fly somehow their own aircraft here in canada ....and also give canadian pilots job in winter.

-Good post Bcnomad.

When the aircraft is put on the Canadian register, it changes operator. It is put on Sunwing's Operators Certficate, is controlled and flown under Suwing SOP under CAR 705, using Sunwing's insurance policy.
When it stays Foreign registered (there is an exception) it is a wet lease operated and controlled by the foreign airline under the foreign airlines' OC, the foreign airlines' SOP and the foreign airlines' aviation regulations and insurance.

When Canadian pilots go fly in Europe, they fly Canadian Registred aircraft on wet leases. The Europeans do not allow Canadian licensed pilots to fly European operated aircraft.

[Rockie]

slovakia,,,, hmmm, All the politically correct leftists ( rockie) out there will be waiting for the first racist, phobic comment to come from those who actually have a brain and care about Canada !!!!!

?

[tsgas]

lots of back stabbers out there. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

[BCnomad]

Gilles H. Please educate yourself on Canadian pilots working overseas. I know for a fact that that CDN pilots have worked ( and continue) overseas using their CDN lic and flying under the "other" countries registration. It is a simple process. Similar to Canada: The country in question applies to the local CAA and then the CAA approves a validation or a full ATPL license for that holder based on their home license. Be it ICAO,or FAA, or what have you. What you have said is completely false.

[Dh8Classic]

He was Captain too. A 37 year old drunk Slovakian can be a jet captain in Canada and I can't get an interview for a regional turboprop job because of all the competition.

I thought he might be an AT guy temporarily on leave after a little dust-up in Scotland. Oh well, back when it mattered more, I wasn't qualified to get an interview at AT because of all the "competition". So basically, the same thing, drunk pilots and a closed shop.

Really? That is BEST thing you can come up with when the shoe is on the other foot? I see you are still a little bit bitter that AT never called you for a groundschool because of an "apparent" language problem. I think their HR saw past the language problem and saw a bit of an ATTITUDE problem. Wow....unreal.

I was lucky, things worked out bigger and better for me than they would have in AT. But, I bet it has not worked out for others so well. Some care, obviously some don't and think you have an "attitude problem" when not qualified due to your cultural background.

[Old fella]

slovakia,,,, hmmm, All the politically correct leftists ( rockie) out there will be waiting for the first racist, phobic comment to come from those who actually have a brain and care about Canada !!!!!

Good Christ, an individual get removed from the cockpit of a Canadian carrier due suspicion of intoxication as reported by other crew members and it was determined said captain was indeed under the influence. This person put Canadian passengers in a very unsafe situation by his actions and then we see comments as posted above.....

[Rookie50]

viewtopic.php?f=118&t=112475

This is how it's should be.

accountable.

[monkey]

Alright, honest question. Is it not better to have the foreign pilot flying under our regulations and controlled by a Canadian operator? Is it not better to have the foreign pilot pass Canadian ground schools, ppc, line checks, etc by Canadian pilots ? They are coming one way or another, with wet lease there is much less control, no? I'm assuming reciprocity for Canadian pilots to work in the foreign pilots country.

[Dh8Classic]

I'm sure the EU regs are safe.

[GyvAir]

viewtopic.php?f=118&t=112475

This is how it's should be.

accountable.

I asked this question in pelmet's "Spot the drunk contest" thread, but nobody bit, so I'll ask/rephrase it here:

How does the resignation of two top level executives “as a gesture of responsibility” improve anything?
Did they have policies in place that somehow condoned showing up for work under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Did they know when they hired this pilot that he was likely to make a very bad series of choices such as he apparently did? Did they personally screen the pilot on his way into work that day?

Is it not the job of the executives to address problems and come up with solutions to make their companies better, going forward? Stepping down at the first sign of trouble like this doesn’t fix anything, nor does it add up.


If there is need for more people than one drunken (or ill) pilot to be held accountable, I think it’s the job of these very executives, or their delegates, to look at the ground level attitude and protocols that allowed this guy make it all the way to the cockpit in the shape he was in and take appropriate measures to correct them. There had to have been a dozen or more people that should have taken action to stop him, long before he was sitting in the cockpit that morning. I doubt the President Director or Operational Director were among those people present that morning.

Thoughts welcome.

[Rookie50]

viewtopic.php?f=118&t=112475

This is how it's should be.

accountable.

I asked this question in pelmet's "Spot the drunk contest" thread, but nobody bit, so I'll ask/rephrase it here:

How does the resignation of two top level executives “as a gesture of responsibility” improve anything?
Did they have policies in place that somehow condoned showing up for work under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Did they know when they hired this pilot that he was likely to make a very bad series of choices such as he apparently did? Did they personally screen the pilot on his way into work that day?

Is it not the job of the executives to address problems and come up with solutions to make their companies better, going forward? Stepping down at the first sign of trouble like this doesn’t fix anything, nor does it add up.


If there is need for more people than one drunken (or ill) pilot to be held accountable, I think it’s the job of these very executives, or their delegates, to look at the ground level attitude and protocols that allowed this guy make it all the way to the cockpit in the shape he was in and take appropriate measures to correct them. There had to have been a dozen or more people that should have taken action to stop him, long before he was sitting in the cockpit that morning. I doubt the President Director or Operational Director were among those people present that morning.

Thoughts welcome.

Honestly don't know. Every situation is different. Simply is refreshing to me to see executives ashamed of an outcome enough to resign. Unheard of here. Instead of accountability, companies place a spin on any bad behaviour. And it's far worse in Canada in this regard. I'm in the investment business, I analyse companies.

And it's no surprise Canada has had both no world class companies, and so many frauds and failures too. Because it's tolerated by cozy boards and protected from competition from mindless governments.
So you end up with arrogant poor service companies like Air Canada and Bell.

Air Canada knows they will get bailed out -- again -- if they ever fail -- again. Why change at the top?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Gilles H. Please educate yourself on Canadian pilots working overseas. I know for a fact that that CDN pilots have worked ( and continue) overseas using their CDN lic and flying under the "other" countries registration. It is a simple process. Similar to Canada: The country in question applies to the local CAA and then the CAA approves a validation or a full ATPL license for that holder based on their home license. Be it ICAO,or FAA, or what have you. What you have said is completely false.

I have done extensive research on the matter and can even produce the relevant and specific regulations of many countries. And you ask that I educate myself ?
The European Union, Australia, and New Zealand allow a once in lifetime non renewable FLVC for 12 months. This to accomodate a foreign licenced pilot who permanetly moved into the country to make a living with his foreign licence while preparing his local licence. It is not used to allow the same foreign pilot to come and work six months out of the year, year after year with a foreign licence, as Transport Canada has been foreign licensed pilots to do in Canada.

The USA never allows foreign licences to fly US commercial aircraft, period.

[GyvAir]

I agree that it’s the North American business way, to throw someone at the bottom under the bus and protect one’s position and annual bonus at all costs, even if it was policies from the top down that caused the problem of the day.

In the case of an individual employee’s incredibly poor decision making leading to embarrassing the companies, as in the current Citilink and Sunwing incidents, that’s when it’s time for the executives to stand up and prove their leadership by proving they’ve corrected any deficiencies in the company structure, policies and culture that allowed those incidents to progress as far as they did. Maybe the corporate culture for appeasement over there in a case like this is such that many heads must roll, regardless, and stepping down was the easiest way out for them.

I’ve been around a number of times when people have shown up for work impaired, including a couple cases involving pilots. Nobody present in those two cases gave them any opportunity to get anywhere near the airplane. Things were nipped at briefing time, long before any planned departure. In both cases, the appropriate actions taken were limited to the individuals accountable: the ones who showed up for work impaired.

[Rookie50]

I agree that it’s the North American business way, to throw someone at the bottom under the bus and protect one’s position and annual bonus at all costs, even if it was policies from the top down that caused the problem of the day..

Can't improve on this.

[Mr. North]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/d ... -1.3919750

Random drug, alcohol testing suggested

One way to ease public concern would be to implement random drug testing for pilots, suggests Leon Cygman, chair of Mount Royal University's aviation program.

"It is a very important job, it's a very stressful job," says Cygman.

"There's a lot of responsibility so I think it's appropriate, in order to ease the public's mind, that pilots with that responsibility do have some random drug and alcohol screening."

Individual airlines or Transport Canada could implement a testing program for pilots says Cygman.

And so it begins... lets legislate out of fear!! To hell with the remaining 99.9999% of pilots who dutifully take to the skies each day, lets make everyone pee in a cup and blow before they release the park brake! Why bother investigating the terms that this foreign licensed pilot was working under? Who really cares about all the checks and balances in place to keep an unfit pilot from taking to the air. It's nothing but a bunch of boozy Denzel Washington's out there!!

Thanks CBC! Excellent, balanced coverage, as always!!

And yet we have pilots flying coast to coast DEAD TIRED. Still YEARS away from any action on that front but no one cares about that!!

[BCnomad]

Gilles H. Please educate yourself on Canadian pilots working overseas. I know for a fact that that CDN pilots have worked ( and continue) overseas using their CDN lic and flying under the "other" countries registration. It is a simple process. Similar to Canada: The country in question applies to the local CAA and then the CAA approves a validation or a full ATPL license for that holder based on their home license. Be it ICAO,or FAA, or what have you. What you have said is completely false.

I have done extensive research on the matter and can even produce the relevant and specific regulations of many countries. And you ask that I educate myself ?
The European Union, Australia, and New Zealand allow a once in lifetime non renewable FLVC for 12 months. This to accomodate a foreign licenced pilot who permanetly moved into the country to make a living with his foreign licence while preparing his local licence. It is not used to allow the same foreign pilot to come and work six months out of the year, year after year with a foreign licence, as Transport Canada has been foreign licensed pilots to do in Canada.

The USA never allows foreign licences to fly US commercial aircraft, period.

Excellent research. Explain then how I and other CDN pilots have been able to hold validations and full ATPLs in Europe x2 countries, India, Asia, Africa x 3 countries, Aruba, Eastern Europe... Oh and I have flown US registered aircraft as well - commercially.... for periods up to 3 years..... all under a CDN lic.