NewLeaf cancels service and blames the other airlines for undercutting

[Rookie50]

Reviewing the links I posted, I simply think its hard to debate AC hasn't been given enormous favour over the years. I'm sure WestJet would agree, for one.

[photofly]

You could certainly make it more difficult to find the inconsistencies in your posts. the takeaway seems to be that government assistance should be both prohibited and mandatory at the same time.

[cncpc]

I believe as a member of the travelling public, dependability is a very key issue at least that's how I see it. NewLeaf the upstart with its minimal number of aircraft trying to cover from Maritimes to Hamilton then points westbound, cancelling destinations, making announcements on new points in USA, then nope not gonna do it, you can understand lack of dependable service gets noticed quickly. AC , WJ and its affiliates plus their various code shares with other major carriers....... that's dependability. Sure all airlines here in Canada are going to have occasion eff ups with WX, ops issues and the like. Tis a huge country to cover from coast to coast........

[Rookie50]

You could certainly make it more difficult to find the inconsistencies in your posts. the takeaway seems to be that government assistance should be both prohibited and mandatory at the same time.

Overly simplistic.

Cash drops to bail out bondholders and unions, absolutely not. Never.

One chooses to lend, invest, or work for a company, take the risk. Don't agree with privatizing all the reward, and socializing risk.

Its the same in every industry. Our banks are unbelievably protected when it comes to any housing downturn, because the risk is socialized through CMHC. Gov't is trying to shift some of the risk, the banks make it sound like the very world will end. Absolute stupidity on par with the US circa early 2000's. Banks making the loans -- assume ALL the risk. Canada shouldn't be in the airline business, housing business, or most any other.

But as for Newleaf, who I know little about, the point is to encourage and allow startups to come in, make mistakes, even fail if warranted, and not allow giant competitors to immediately try to kill them off through unethical practices, like predatory pricing on the same routes. This isn't earth shattering policy.

If you don't do this -- private capital watches and won't invest a dime here, in airlines or anything else. Why should they?

Lets talk about Bombardier. They should be bankrupt. Right now. Keeping them alive is really bad policy. Might as well flush money down the toilet. Its all the same thing to me.

[anofly]

.What has happened (until Porter hit a critical mass size) in the past was someone would start an airline at YTZ, flying YOW and YUL or similar, and AC would bomb in there, put on a loss leader type sale, the upstart would fold, and AC would leave. It has happened about 3 or 4 times in my 36 years flying in and out. I was a cheerleader for Porter (at least at first) , the bridge fiasco put plenty of cash in their pockets, and helped them get a solid start. They are a real airline , and do great work. I am somewhat worried , YTZ has become less of a welcoming place for GA. With the impending closure of YKZ, it will leave Toronto as a not very accessible or friendly place for GA.
As a side note, non aviator types in Toronto call Toronto island airport, TCCA, (or Toronto Billy Bishop or whatever they call it now) simply "Porter" . Sounds like they won....

[Galaxy]

Sounds like the a-holes didn't even have permission to start flying into the USA. I smell a class action lawsuit brewing.

Shame on you Newleaf.

[vrefplus5]

Permission from whom, Galaxy? The Mesa/Melbourne airports authorities? Honest question.

[Galaxy]

Permission from whom, Galaxy? The Mesa/Melbourne airports authorities? Honest question.

I believe the news report I saw said it was the CTA.

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/newleaf-canc ... -1.3227889

[Rookie50]

This is a good summary of the Billy Bishop airport story. Note written by pro biz FP.

http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... lly-bishop

I respect Deluce because he stood in there and took a risk, and made something out of nothing.

Maybe I just root for the little guy...

[photofly]

What's missing from the article is the point that the Federal court accepted: that flights from Billy Bishop are part of a common market with flights from Pearson. While some people may prefer one over the other, it's generally true that anyone who wants to fly out of YTZ can equally fly out of YYZ. So the fact that one airline has the majority of slots at YTZ doesn't make a monopoly within a market.

In general anyone who wants to cry "monopoly!" to stop a rival has an interest in defining the "market" as narrowly as possible. The defence is to fight to define the "market" as widely as possible. In this case YTZ doesn't form a market all by itself any more than does "flights from Pearson Terminal 1" all of which are operated by AC.

[Rookie50]

What's missing from the article is the point that the Federal court accepted: that flights from Billy Bishop are part of a common market with flights from Pearson. While some people may prefer one over the other, it's generally true that anyone who wants to fly out of YTZ can equally fly out of YYZ. So the fact that one airline has the majority of slots at YTZ doesn't make a monopoly within a market.

In general anyone who wants to cry "monopoly!" to stop a rival has an interest in defining the "market" as narrowly as possible. The defence is to fight to define the "market" as widely as possible. In this case YTZ doesn't form a market all by itself any more than does "flights from Pearson Terminal 1" all of which are operated by AC.

Makes sense --