Government to Consider Random Alcohol testing for pilots

[Rockie]

Just try getting a job in the oil patch today without a drug test. Of course you are within your rights to refuse but then be prepared to not work there. Why should our line of work put us above that?

There's a difference between voluntary drug testing and mandatory drug testing. It's as simple as that.

[trey kule]

Not going to happen folks.

Firstly, the media would be over every incident like Trudeau on a photo op. Just like airline accidents vs. car accidents in the media. It would present such a bad perspective to the public. The govt might instead, "encourage" companies to do the testing and quietly deal with employees outside of the media spotlight.
It is done in all sorts of other industries.
Anyone who thinks this is simply an issue of laws and logic does not understand how the real world works.
Lets take this a bit further. By speaking out against this it is obvious to me the you just might be an alcoholic trying to avoid being tested.
It is a very slippery slope.

Secondly, if they brought in universal alcohol testing, I am pretty sure it would create a huge pilot shortage.. In fact, this whole testing idea is probably a conspiracy put forward by those undetectable pot head millennials to move up the seniority lists.


I am a big supporter of the anti "If you are not doing anything wrong, then give up your rights, crowd."
There is no point in having rights , if you are expected to give them up, and if you refuse, are considered to be guilty of whatever offence you are being asked about.
But we have to ask how much damage did that idiot in Calgary do to our industry passing out in the cockpit.
This is a response to a few incidents the media has made to appear to be an epidemic. In this modern world where one or two isolated cases are made to appear to be the norm, this is going to happen more and more.
Difficult decision.

[Illya Kuryakin]

How about random testing for Trudeau and his cabinet ministers?
Trey nailed it.
Illya

[AuxBatOn]

Jazz taxied onto a bit of grass the other day in YVR. One of the comments on the news article was "I wonder if the sobriety test was done yet?"

You bend metal, you bet you should be screened for drugs and alchool, if only to find contributing factors and causes of an accident.

I don't understand the Privacy argument. You are carrying passengers for a living, they have the right to know you are fit to fly. Random drug/alcohol testing would dissuade most people willing to take a chance (and yes there are people doing this) This only would be worth it. Make it part of thr employment requirements which would make it voluntary. Don't want to subject? Don't fly for us.

[Rockie]

You bend metal, you bet you should be screened for drugs and alchool, if only to find contributing factors and causes of an accident.

Absolutely correct and that does in fact happen, but then you contradict yourself with this:

I don't understand the Privacy argument. You are carrying passengers for a living, they have the right to know you are fit to fly.

You don't have to understand the privacy argument or the rights argument (which you are defending when in uniform by the way), but so what? It's the law of the land based on principles that go way back. You also have to ask how far we should take your world view. Does someone entering a cab not have the right to know their driver is fit to drive? Drug tests before every cab ride perhaps? How about trains? Buses? Law makers? Politicians? That's a good one come to think of it...not just a sobriety/drug test but a sanity test for every politician before considering any law.

Do you take a sobriety test before every one of your flights?

[AuxBatOn]

No but my unit is subject from time to time to random anonymous testinng. I would be 100% okay and in favour of random, non-anonymous testing, like it is done in the US.

The consequences of flying impaired are, imo, greater than a cab or a bus driver. You can't just pull over the side of the road and the life of people in your plane and on the ground are at risk.

[Old fella]

Man, I can see a whole host of logistic and legal issues with this idea of random testing, especially since there isn't an epidemic of this type(airline pilot drinking while on duty) activity here in Canada, there simply isn't. I believe the Government realizes this and would have to come up with the resources, hence the " to consider random alcohol testing......"

I am not an airline pilot, never was but I understand there is more of an " epidemic " of pilot fatigue(while on duty)issues as our laws are a little behind in this regard.

[Rockie]

No but my unit is subject from time to time to random anonymous testinng. I would be 100% okay and in favour of random, non-anonymous testing, like it is done in the US.

How would you feel about getting pulled over at random in your car by the police for a breathalyzer and search of your car? Not the same I'm sure you're thinking but it is.

The consequences of flying impaired are, imo, greater than a cab or a bus driver. You can't just pull over the side of the road and the life of people in your plane and on the ground are at risk.

I think the consequences of a 52 passenger bus careening across the white line into another 52 passenger bus are just as great, as are a taxi cab plowing through a crowded sidewalk.

[Old fella]

No but my unit is subject from time to time to random anonymous testinng. I would be 100% okay and in favour of random, non-anonymous testing, like it is done in the US.

How would you feel about getting pulled over at random in your car by the police for a breathalyzer and search of your car? Not the same I'm sure you're thinking but it is.

The consequences of flying impaired are, imo, greater than a cab or a bus driver. You can't just pull over the side of the road and the life of people in your plane and on the ground are at risk.

I think the consequences of a 52 passenger bus careening across the white line into another 52 passenger bus are just as great, as are a taxi cab plowing through a crowded sidewalk.

Interesting questions for sure. I got to know a couple of Criminal Defence Attorneys quite well and I have peppered them with questions. They know the laws and understand it much better than the cops. You would be quite shocked and appalled at the lack of knowledge most people have on our Justice system and how it works in relation to their Constitutional rights in dealing with the state. These eminent Jurists as officers of the court told me their biggest issue is one of education to their clients. As one said Tis the CSI and a Law and Order TV syndrome from those garbage cops and robber TV shit...

[CpnCrunch]

How would you feel about getting pulled over at random in your car by the police for a breathalyzer and search of your car? Not the same I'm sure you're thinking but it is.

It happens all the time, and Canadians are apparently fine with it (random alcohol checks when driving). I've been stopped a few times myself, and I appreciate it. It's a big problem in Canada, which needs more work:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... tudy-finds

The reality is that people see all these stories about drunk pilots, and they wonder how many drunk pilots aren't caught. Is it not reasonable for people to be concerned?

[Rockie]

Not exactly CpnCrunch. RIDE programs stop you as you go past and the officer asks if you've been drinking, and they take a sniff to see if they can detect alcohol. If they do that is enough cause for a closer look. But they do not, and cannot, subject anyone to an alcohol test without cause.

[CpnCrunch]

Not exactly CpnCrunch. RIDE programs stop you as you go past and the officer asks if you've been drinking, and they take a sniff to see if they can detect alcohol. If they do that is enough cause for a closer look. But they do not, and cannot, subject anyone to an alcohol test without cause.

I suspect you would dislike an aviation version of Checkstops more than you would dislike random alcohol tests. I'm not saying I want to subject you to either...I just see why the politicians are pushing for it.

I'm pretty confident that any airline I'm likely to fly with has appropriate policies in place to detect drunk pilots without the government needing to do anything.

[Old fella]

Not exactly CpnCrunch. RIDE programs stop you as you go past and the officer asks if you've been drinking, and they take a sniff to see if they can detect alcohol. If they do that is enough cause for a closer look. But they do not, and cannot, subject anyone to an alcohol test without cause.

Correct Rockie, matter of fact you are not required to answer any questions or give an account of your activities at all, including if you had anything to drink nor are your passengers. When driving you are required to show your drivers licence, registration and insurance card upon demand. Thats all you are required to do..........

[CpnCrunch]

Correct Rockie, matter of fact you are not required to answer any questions or give an account of your activities at all, including if you had anything to drink nor are your passengers. When driving you are required to show your drivers licence, registration and insurance card upon demand. Thats all you are required to do..........

So what happens if the person driving refuses to utter a single word to the police officer?

[Rockie]

Not exactly CpnCrunch. RIDE programs stop you as you go past and the officer asks if you've been drinking, and they take a sniff to see if they can detect alcohol. If they do that is enough cause for a closer look. But they do not, and cannot, subject anyone to an alcohol test without cause.

I suspect you would dislike an aviation version of Checkstops more than you would dislike random alcohol tests. I'm not saying I want to subject you to either...I just see why the politicians are pushing for it.

I'm pretty confident that any airline I'm likely to fly with has appropriate policies in place to detect drunk pilots without the government needing to do anything.

We pass many, many people on our way to the plane who can, and do, detect the smell of alcohol and alert the appropriate authorities. But it is not he same thing as sobriety tests is it?

[Old fella]

Correct Rockie, matter of fact you are not required to answer any questions or give an account of your activities at all, including if you had anything to drink nor are your passengers. When driving you are required to show your drivers licence, registration and insurance card upon demand. Thats all you are required to do..........

So what happens if the person driving refuses to utter a single word to the police officer?

Nothing from a legal prospective. It's called a Constitutional Right to Silence, I complied with the lawful demand to produce my licence, registration and insurance card

[Elessar_44]

Just a way for the Minister to avoid having to tackle the real problem of scheduling and fatigue, but make it look in the public eye that the government is doing something to make the public safer while travelling.

[CpnCrunch]

So what happens if the person driving refuses to utter a single word to the police officer?

Nothing.

https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/ ... ide-tests/

"Although you are not required to respond to questions by the police, failing to do so may lead the police to suspect you have consumed alcohol, and they will likely require you to provide a roadside breath-screening sample. You do not have the right to consult a lawyer before performing the roadside test. However, you do have the legal right to consult a lawyer before performing the breathalyzer test at the police station."

[CpnCrunch]

We pass many, many people on our way to the plane who can, and do, detect the smell of alcohol and alert the appropriate authorities. But it is not he same thing as sobriety tests is it?

Agreed, it's not the same thing, and it is sufficient for me. Is it sufficient for the politicians?

[Rockie]

We pass many, many people on our way to the plane who can, and do, detect the smell of alcohol and alert the appropriate authorities. But it is not he same thing as sobriety tests is it?

Is it sufficient for the politicians?

Who cares? The real question is if it's sufficient for the courts. As illustrated in the links earlier the bar for violating privacy laws and individual rights is thankfully set very high in this country.

[Old fella]

So what happens if the person driving refuses to utter a single word to the police officer?

Nothing.

Nothing from a legal prospective. It's called a Constitutional Right to Silence, I complied with the lawful demand to produce my licence, registration and insurance card

https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/ ... ide-tests/

"Although you are not required to respond to questions by the police, failing to do so may lead the police to suspect you have consumed alcohol, and they will likely require you to provide a roadside breath-screening sample. You do not have the right to consult a lawyer before performing the roadside test. However, you do have the legal right to consult a lawyer before performing the breathalyzer test at the police station."

“It really depends on the reason you’ve been pulled over,” Anber says. “If somebody is pulled over during a RIDE program, the best thing is to hand over your licence and remain silent - anything you say can be used against you.”

Taken from:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-dr ... e29583815/

[CpnCrunch]

“It really depends on the reason you’ve been pulled over,” Anber says. “If somebody is pulled over during a RIDE program, the best thing is to hand over your licence and remain silent - anything you say can be used against you.”

Taken from:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-dr ... e29583815/

The article also says that police are allowed to do random sobriety tests. The "remain silent" is presumably referring to volunteering information, not to keeping your mouth shut to avoid a sobriety test.

[justwork]

I say every pilot, not just random should be breathalyzed. Same as doctors, nurses, taxi drivers, bus drivers, train engineers, judges, lawyers, accountants, anyone that is employed by the federal or provincial government, all unemployed receiving government assistance, students, teachers, dentists, secretaries, anyone receiving their Canada pension, veterans, the person who walks my dog, AND OF COURSE all Tim Hortons employees. Hell, lets go full throttle 1984 George Orwell here, I'm talking camera's in televisions, government regulated relationships, only serve Gin, double think, Big Brother is watching you. Who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present controls the past. It'll be a cold day in April, when the clock strikes 13 before the Canadian Federal government wins this in court.

[timel]

I spoke recently with one of my doctor friend about this surgeon who was a drug addict. Got treated, now is practicing and a motivation speaker. Where´s the workshop?

Pilots getting screwed again!

I think we can take care of our own problems.

This whole debate is a tempest in a bottle of water. I have flown with an incredible amount of professionals who care and are serious about flying. Do we need more pilot support programs? Sure! Less polical crap, hell yes.

Where are the updated duty and rest regulations?

[MrWings]

If this actually happened, it wouldn't faze me one bit.