WestJet almost puts one in the drink

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Redneck_pilot86
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Redneck_pilot86 »

Maybe they were experimenting with Hot Temperature Corrections.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Jet Jockey »

@ complexintentions...
lol Unless that pic is photoshopped they're pretty damn low. There's just no way they should be low enough to be disturbing water with either thrust or wake. Argue all you want about the exact height but that's no stable approach, even if the threshold is just outside the frame.
I think what most perceive as wake turbulence or thrust agitating the water is in fact wrong. The darker blue waters is IMO a shallow wave that's moving. It is not directly inline with the aircraft but seems to be south of the flight path. I also took a look at other pictures shot in the same area and there were darker blue waters showing up in other directions too... I think this is just a coincidence.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Cat Driver »

For sure it is an interesting event.

But something really looks a bit off, if that is really down wash and or engine thrust wake it sure looks to be quite close to the airplane...close as in not very far back...

Weird for sure, but Westjet will have a better picture of what really happened.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by complexintentions »

Jet Jockey wrote: I think what most perceive as wake turbulence or thrust agitating the water is in fact wrong. The darker blue waters is IMO a shallow wave that's moving. It is not directly inline with the aircraft but seems to be south of the flight path. I also took a look at other pictures shot in the same area and there were darker blue waters showing up in other directions too... I think this is just a coincidence.
Possible, I guess. Pretty big coincidence to have a wave roughly the width of the a/c that just happens to appear to start directly behind and extend along the flight path. Stranger things, though.

I had a look at their track. They appeared to hold on a fix on the extended centreline of the runway, but then headed north for a second approach. There's probably some procedural reason but to spare me trying to find the chart does anyone who operates there know why?
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Gannet167 »

Ancient wrote:makes me wonder if Canadian pilots struggle in warmer climates
This is a joke, right?
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by CL-Skadoo! »

If it's not a fake, their FOQA people will have plenty of work on their hands for this one.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Ancient »

Yeah Westjet is going to be in a lot of trouble when Westjet gets a hold of them.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by ckl »

IMG_0359.PNG
IMG_0359.PNG (197.17 KiB) Viewed 3614 times
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Eric Janson »

The FlightRadar 24 data shows a very low first approach - the altitude of the aircraft is showing as 'zero' with the location still well out over the water. :shock: :shock:

This is consistent with the photo.

Any more comments from Lauren Stewart?

For those of you who want to dismiss the FR24 data - in the recent 747 crash in Bishkek the FR24 data showed exactly what was later confirmed by investigators.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by kevenv »

Here is a video taken from the other side of the bay. I think this should settle the issue of whether or not the original pics were photoshopped..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNhAYKM-7LQ
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by justwork »

Jesus... I bet those guys had skid marks as long as their wake on the water. That Disney frozen paint job would have made an interesting artificial reef.

*just watched the video and it looked breezy. Will be interesting to read what happened but if I was to purely GUESS, we all love that, my money would be on wind shear.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Jet Jockey »

Never doubted the picture... Close call indeed!

LOL... People applauding the second approach.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Panama Jack »

Does Westjet do Constant Descent Angle (CDA) Non-Precision Approaches, or the "Dive & Drive" steps?
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by kevenv »

Here are two screen captures of the flight profile on Flightradar24 (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 52#caa236c). The pics show the different altitudes at the same place on both approaches.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Eric Janson »

Here's a link to the vertical profile of both approaches made from the FR24 data.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5920 ... ost9702666
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by valleyboy »

Maybe they didn't set their altimeters on the transition... and were a little late getting the picture.
There is the misconception of north american pilots, altimeters should be set as soon as you are cleared below transition no matter what FL you are at(outside north america). Low transition altitudes in the Caribbean can be as low at FL20 -- it could be the very thing they fell into.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by justwork »

Panama Jack wrote:Does Westjet do Constant Descent Angle (CDA) Non-Precision Approaches, or the "Dive & Drive" steps?
They don't "dive & drive"
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Jean-Luc Monette »

valleyboy wrote: altimeters should be set as soon as you are cleared below transition no matter what FL you are at(outside north america).

True for the UK, but not Europe as a whole...
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by Jet Jockey »

Why in this day and age we still have low Transition Levels and Transition Altitudes is beyond me but that's another subject all together...

When on an approach professional pilots should also cross check their altitudes with fixes on the approach and the DMEs from the field and always back it up with the radio altimeter.

In this case when flying over a body of water, which is the sea, you can't get any more precise of the height above MSL when using the radio altimeter as a back up.

I don't known how WestJet's EGWPS system is set up and what call they get from it using the RA but I'd be surprise if there isn't a 500 foot call and then perhaps a 100 foot call, 50 foot call and lesser ones too like 40, 30, 20, 10...
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by crazyaviator »

The runway is over 7100 feet long,, no need to drag it in, One photographer has rain on their lens, so a storm was coming in .It looks like they had flown through an area of low visibility and possibly rain, making the visual appear higher or lower than actual and finally, there was a big high truck about to cross their path just before the runway,,, STILL, a go-around was not necessary but wise due to a now unstable approach ( power added and approach profile abruptly changed) !!
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by twinpratts »

Ancient wrote:50 feet or not that deck angle is a bit alarming. That airplane looks almost out of energy.
Unless (of course) the pilots had just applied go around thrust just before the shutter was released... that would explain the body angle, as well as the disturbance on the surface of the water.
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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by FL410 »

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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by jjj »

Ancient wrote:50 feet or not that deck angle is a bit alarming. That airplane looks almost out of energy. This plus Montego Bay makes me wonder if Canadian pilots struggle in warmer climates due the substantial decrease in performance from what they are used to.
That is a dumb AF comment.

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Re: WestJet almost puts one in the drink

Post by P-40 »

Ancient wrote:The tower closed the airport apparently for 45 minutes after the near accident. Not sure why.
Because the visibility was poor, not because of the low approach/GA. Another 737 that landed just prior to the WJ approach commented to the tower on only picking up the runway 1 mile out. Another carrier (A320) chose to go to their alternate (Guadeloupe) instead of waiting it out. A KLM A330 was also asked to hold until visibility improved but chose to execute an approach due to fuel restrictions. The KLM crew commented on picking up the runway between 1.5-2miles.
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