Katrina and the mess she left.

[North Shore]

Man, what a mess - it seems to be getting worse every time that I look at the TV. Sad for all of those people who are flooded out. And what's up with all of those looters? You'd hope that a "we're all in this together" type of mentality would take root, rather than "Damn you, I'm ok."

[TTail]

Have you been to MSY?

[Magnanimous]

The front page of the post this morning had the headline "America's Sunami". Think maybe they are overstating things just a little? Sure maybe the cost of repairs will be more, but human lives? Just a thought, of course, I'd expect nothing less from a group that when the sunami forst hit just after Christmas, they were comparing it to 9/11...

[CID]

America's Tsunami. Talk about overstating things. This whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen. Building a city below sea level with a single wall to protect it.

Too bad the US has plenty of money to spend on killing foreigners and not so much to spend on the security of it's own people at home where its needed.

I don't imagine a secondary wall would have cost much. I read in the papers that many are going without food and shelter. Where the hell is the aid?

With respect to the looting, I agree with a previous post. Don't be surprised. New Orleans is pretty scary place where you'd have a good chance of being robbed, regardless of the presence of "Katrina and the Waves".

All that aside, of course this is a human tragedy with victims that deserve our acknowledgment and hopes that they get relief soon.

[hz2p]

I can see it coming now ... the lefties will claim that the flooding of New Orleans "never happened", and/or that Hurricane Katrina was a conspiracy between GWB and the Mossad.

Look for it at a web site near you!

[North Shore]

Actually, Hz, it was a conspiracy between GWB, the oil companies, and the Saudis:
GWB and family, as we all know, are deeple involved in the oil bidness - as profits rise, so do their personal accounts. The Saudis sell a product, that, when burned, contributes to warming of the atmosphere, contributing to bigger, and more powerful, storms. Knowing this, the Oil companies built many of their major refineries and production facilities below sea level in an area prone to hurricanes. Now that a big storm has hit, they can shut down production, jack up the price across the continent, and reap windfall profits...and GWB gets richer. I have't quite figured it out how The Tragically Hip knew all of this was going to happen when they did their album several years ago - but being musicians, and from Toronto to boot, I'm sure that they are well connected with the liberal-left-wing conspiracy.

[goates]

Too bad the US has plenty of money to spend on killing foreigners and not so much to spend on the security of it's own people at home where its needed.

I don't imagine a secondary wall would have cost much. I read in the papers that many are going without food and shelter. Where the hell is the aid?

With respect to the looting, I agree with a previous post. Don't be surprised. New Orleans is pretty scary place where you'd have a good chance of being robbed, regardless of the presence of "Katrina and the Waves".

All that aside, of course this is a human tragedy with victims that deserve our acknowledgment and hopes that they get relief soon.

Actually the US has mobilized something like 165,000 National Guard troops, is sending at least 3 large Navy ships (with plenty of water, supplies and helicopters), several Air Force transports and helicopters and plenty of other support. The Army Core of Engineers is already trying to fix the breaks in the levees, but being that the area is flooded, it won't happen quickly. The area affected is huge, and there are far worse problems in other places than New Orleans too.

I wish Canada had the same abilities if something like this ever happened here.

New Orleans is built in a rather bad location, but it wasn't this low 100 or 200 years ago. It has also sunk since then (New Orleans is sinking man...). And adding a second wall is far easier said than done, and they have looked at it. Swampy ground does not make for a solid base to build something of that magnitude on.

[Siddley Hawker]

This would be an excellent opportunity for Martin and Co. to show just what kind of stuff they're made of. The military DART team was designed with just this type of disaster in mind. Wonder if they'll be offered?

[w squared]

Very true, Siddley. A comparatively short deployment distance, a secure region to deploy to, no language barrier...an easy deployment when compared to elsewhere in the world. Add to that the fact that all of our military equipment was designed to funtion within a interconnected NATO supply system, and it's a chance for the DART to shine.

Yes, compared to the USA Corps of engineers, the DART is just a drop in the bucket - but one that I'm sure would be appreciated by the people living in the area that they deploy to. What do you thinks the odds of it happening are?

[Expat]

I have shares in lumber companies, and friends out of work in saw mills, and I just wish that our lumber industry would go on strike right now! Cut the supply of wood completely until the conditions are right...
Sweet revenge... And screw NAFTA!

[. .]

From what I've heard on the news Canada has offered up everything Canada has to offer. It's even gone to the provincial levels offering up assets that aren't under fedral control. It's a sorry state of affairs when you have to pull 1500 police off of search and rescue mission to protect the city from looting. I wonder if Hamilton (a simialr sized city in Canada) would have the same problems if something like this happened there? I'd like to think we wouldn't.

[desksgo]

America's Tsunami. Talk about overstating things. This whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen. Building a city below sea level with a single wall to protect it.

Too bad the US has plenty of money to spend on killing foreigners...

Yes the National Guard is overstretched because they are off fighting elsewhere, which I certainly don't agree with...but...
As much as I am ready to leave this country, my heart goes out to the US right now.

For those that have been through New Orleans and have driven through the backwoods of Louisiana and Alabama, you might have an idea of how a Category 5 Hurricane may be a bit of trouble for those places. I also wouldn't bad mouth people for settling in the area, as many of the people that live there go back a long time into their ancestry of inhabiting that area. Some not by choice, but because they were enslaved there. So try to show just a wee bit of compassion, there is little chance for many of these people to start over again.

Maybe calling it America's Tsumani is a bit of a stretch, but for someone that lost family members, all of their posessions, and a home that has been in their family for generations, there isn't much of a difference.

The only part that makes me angry in all of this: The tsunami occurred without warning, this hurricane was a well forecasted storm. It's a shame that people didn't fully understant the gravity of the situation.

[goates]

I wonder if Hamilton (a simialr sized city in Canada) would have the same problems if something like this happened there? I'd like to think we wouldn't.

While I would think people here wouldn't drop to the same levels, I'm not sure it wouldn't happen either (we have had riots after hockey games and rock concerts). The biggest problem we have is that we would need outside help to recover, while the US could deal with this on its own.

[Wilbur]

Vancouver's Urban Search and Rescue Team left for the area last night at request of the the Govenor of Louisianna. It's a City/Provincial Emergency Program unit containing 45 fire/resuce personnel, paramedics, and a couple ER doctors.

On the other hand, federally, Dithers is dithering while the Liberal spin doctors are busy cooking up lies and excuses about why this isn't the right time to deploy the DART, they haven't called yet, etc, etc, when in fact, the truth is they can't deploy the DART or any other military assets because the people, equipment, and transportation first have to be found and pulled together.

While the left wing self proclaimed socially enlightened Liberals ponder the situation from their Toronto and Ottawa coffee house armchairs, the western rednecks are actually helping people.

[North Shore]

While the left wing self proclaimed socially enlightened Liberals ponder the situation from their Toronto and Ottawa coffee house armchairs, the western rednecks are actually helping people

How did this suddenly turn into a Liberal-bashing thread? When I look at the Electoral map from the last Federal election http://atlas.gc.ca/site/english/maps/re ... ection2004 I see an awful lot of Liberal Red in the Vancouver area...where's the Calgary Urban SAR team? and why are gas prices suddenly going through the roof - speaking of western rednecks.

Perhaps the delay in deploying the DART was a little long in the case of the Tsunami (due, in part, to the poor media coverage in SE Asia) but it seems to make sense to me to wait and see, in this case, where the authorities in the southern States want us to go, rather than just rushing madly off..

[CID]

How did this suddenly turn into a Liberal-bashing thread?

Labelling people "lefties" or using terms like "socialist" is the only way that some people can defend their opinion. When logic fails, you can use derogatory labels and hope to deflect attention.

The incredibly funny thing is that the labels tend to fly rather randomly. You don't have to declare allegience to the Liberals or anything. As soon as you oppose hz2p (or similar) you are automatically labeled.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You must always consider the source. I wouldn't trust CNN to provide balanced coverage of the Iraqi war any more than I would trust hz2p to accurately identify a real "lefty".

And adding a second wall is far easier said than done, and they have looked at it. Swampy ground does not make for a solid base to build something of that magnitude on.

The US is spending $177 million of tax dollars a day in Iraq. How much do you think a second wall or other secondary defence would cost? How much money would it have saved? Private insurance losses alone have tallied up over $9 billion so far.

Of course the best answer is to abandon the site altogether. What are the chances of that happening? With the revised post-Katrina insurance rates for the area, it might not be all that improbable.

[hz2p]

That works both ways, CID. You previously attempted to insult me by calling me a "redneck" because my views were different from yours.

[goates]

.

And adding a second wall is far easier said than done, and they have looked at it. Swampy ground does not make for a solid base to build something of that magnitude on.

The US is spending $177 million of tax dollars a day in Iraq. How much do you think a second wall or other secondary defence would cost? How much money would it have saved? Private insurance losses alone have tallied up over $9 billion so far.

Of course the best answer is to abandon the site altogether. What are the chances of that happening? With the revised post-Katrina insurance rates for the area, it might not be all that improbable.

It would cost a few billion dolars and even that may not have helped. There is simply too much water, both the ocean and the lake, to keep out of New Orleans. All of the land around there is sinking or being washed away. With the river being contained in canals and levees, it doesn't have a chance to replenish the areas with the silt it is carrying. The best way to solve the problem would be to free the Misssissippi river so that it can start building up the swamps and low lying areas again.

Or maybe they should take the opportunity to rebuild elsewhere. Human emotion however is far stronger than reason and there are half a million people with sentimental ties to the city. I don't see tem outright abandoning it.

[Wilbur]

NS, on paper, the DART is supposed to be deployable on 24 hours notice. Why is it again, as was the Liberal excuse with the tsunami, so difficult for the feds to figure out where to send people? The Vancouver fire department had their team assembled, ready to go, and the offer of assistance made the day after the hurricane. They got the call back from the Govenor yesterday and were on their way within a few hours.

Why has this turned into a Liberal bashing? Because again, their callous indifference is a national disgrace. The simple reality is that the Liberals aren't going to do anything to help anyone unless their polling shows it will buy them some votes.

As for the comment about Calgary's team, do they have one? Vancouver's team was created because of the earthquake risk in the region. Do any other Canadian cities have or need such a team? The Vancouver lower mainland planners are also well aware that in the event of a natural disaster we are on our own. The Liberals withdrew all regular army units from BC and shut down CFB Chilliwack, the only army base. Any military assistance beyond a couple small, under manned, militia units will be a long time coming.

[. .]

Dalton offered ontario's team, so those stupid callous liberals must just be using that as a ploy to get votes I'm sure? Give it up kids.

[goates]

Here's some more information about the Louisiana coast line, the levees and what they are planning on doing.

http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonl ... 3feat.html

[Chantal]

Actually, Hz, it was a conspiracy between GWB, the oil companies, and the Saudis:
GWB and family, as we all know, are deeple involved in the oil bidness - as profits rise, so do their personal accounts. The Saudis sell a product, that, when burned, contributes to warming of the atmosphere, contributing to bigger, and more powerful, storms. Knowing this, the Oil companies built many of their major refineries and production facilities below sea level in an area prone to hurricanes. Now that a big storm has hit, they can shut down production, jack up the price across the continent, and reap windfall profits...and GWB gets richer. I have't quite figured it out how The Tragically Hip knew all of this was going to happen when they did their album several years ago - but being musicians, and from Toronto to boot, I'm sure that they are well connected with the liberal-left-wing conspiracy.

I feel major stress, feels like were dealing with TWO disasters, the second being this sudden, Oil crisis. What's going to happen if this is true? I hate all the oil companies, and GWB.

[CLguy]

What I can't get over is all of a sudden from our Prime Minister down, everyone is falling all over themselves to jump in and help the poor Americans. Remember they are the ones who owe us more than $5 billion in soft wood lumber tariffs and it is because of them that northern towns are living with massive layoffs and the farmers are starving because of the border closed to beef.

I say to, Paul Martin instead of sucking up to George Bush, you should call him and tell him we have some 2X4's for sale and if his people are hungry we also have some beef we could send them, but we just have a small problem with the billions still owing in lumber tariffs and the border being closed to our beef before we could allow that to happen. In fact now would be a good time to shut the electrical switches off in northern Quebec and to close the oil and gas valve from the west just to show them we mean business.

Of course the Canadian do-gooders will continue to take whatever Bush and his cronies decide to dish out to us for fear of alienating the mighty Americans!!!

[. .]

I don't think now is the time to poke the monster in the eye.

[Chantal]

I feel similar, it seems like they don't respect our values very much. For one thing, I'd like them to understand we love our free healthcare idea so quit trying to ruin it.

But George Bush is a KILLER, what would he do?