A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

A. I. Root, the liar number four after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Those who have time can read a book like no other that has ever been written about the alleged Wright brothers' flights performed between December 17, 1903, and October 5, 1905.

I know that few people have heard about Amos I. Root of Medina, Ohio, USA, but this owner of a factory for beekeeping supplies is the main witness of the two aeroplanists, his account being the principal story on which the myth of the Wright brothers, as inventors of the airplane, is based.

In a January 1, 1905, article, published in his periodical "Gleanings in Bee Culture", Root claimed he had seen Wilbur Wright flying in a circuit somewhere near Dayton, on September 20, 1904.

However, if you read the letters of Amos I. Root to the Wrights plus the numerous articles in which he mentions them (all these texts are attached to the present book), you remark that this man from Medina did not see any powered flight on September 20, 1904. He was just a victim of the lies spread by the two Daytonians and, at the same time, of his own obsession with heavier than air flying machines. Root was also a person who wished to get a (fraudulent) place in the history of aviation believing that the effort of reminding repeatedly his readers, he had witnessed the first circular flight ever performed by a man carrying plane, would make his account more credible and finally his story would become an accepted truth.

Fortunately, Root's lies have been uncovered.

The addresses from where you can download the book:

Link 1

Link 2

Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by ozon on Sat May 13, 2017 11:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
av8ts
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:31 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by av8ts »

Wow. I'm glad that got cleared up
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6610
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by Beefitarian »

Holy macaroni. Heavier than air flight is a myth?
---------- ADS -----------
 
North Shore
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5622
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Straight outta Dundarave...

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by North Shore »

...Ahhh, OK?
So Root's a liar, and he sold more copies of his beekeeping journal a hundred and twelve bloody years ago
Please tell me you go wing suit flying, free solo climbing, or race the TT as a profession, and just write about obscure corners of history for a hobby....
---------- ADS -----------
 
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Zaibatsu
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:37 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by Zaibatsu »

Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

Image
Detail of the well known picture allegedly taken on December 17, 1903. It was first published in September 1908.
The slope going down in front of the plane is visible and inconsistent with the January 6, 1904 declaration of the Wrights which says:

===========================
“Wright Flyer”, Dayton Press, Ohio, US, January 6, 1904, Scrapbook - Library of Congress, US.

Wright Flyer
———
A Report of Late Tests
———
Is Given by Messrs’ Wright, Inventors of the Machine.
———
Interesting Description of the Trials Made at Kitty Hawk.
———
"...
On the morning of December 17, between the hours of 10:30 o’clock and noon, four flights were made, two by Orville Wright and two by Wilbur Wright. The starts were all made from a point on the level sand about 200 feet west of our champ, which is located a quarter of a mile north of the Kill Devil sand hill, in Dare county ... "
Source: https://www.loc.gov/resource/mwright.05001/?sp=20
===========================

Besides this, there is the declaration of A. W. Drinkwater who clearly said the Wrights' first true powered flight occured on May 6, 1908 (well within the aviation age).

"the brothers only “glided” off Kill Devil Hill that day. Their first real flight came on May 6, 1908", Alpheus W. Drinkwater, telegraph operator

"Wilbur and Orville Wright are credited with making their first powered flight in a heavier-than-air machine on Dec. 17, 1903. But Alpheus W. Drinkwater, 76 years old, who sent the telegraph message ushering in the air age, said the brothers only “glided” off Kill Devil Hill that day. Their first real flight came on May 6, 1908, he said." Source: New York Times, Dec. 17, 1951.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by confusedalot »

Beefitarian wrote:Holy macaroni. Heavier than air flight is a myth?
Somebody better tell the FAA. I have this piece of plastic that sez ATPL with a mustachioed guy on it.

:cry:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
kevind
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:09 pm

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by kevind »

So over 110 years ago some one used a word that now means non powered flight (gliding) to describe something that had never happened before. What words should he have used? "after accelerating past V1, the craft reached Vr and started a climb at Vy"?

So, if I "glided" thru rush hour traffic, does that mean I did not use my engine?

Sometimes people read too much into things.
---------- ADS -----------
 
goldeneagle
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:28 pm

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by goldeneagle »

ozon wrote: Detail of the well known picture allegedly taken on December 17, 1903.
You are aware that the photo in question was taken by an army photographer who validated it?
---------- ADS -----------
 
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

That picture was taken by John. T. Daniels a lifeguard from the Life Saving Station at Kill Devil Hills. At least, this is what he wrote in a 1933 letter addressed to a friend.

"June 30 -- 1933

Dear friend,

I Don’t know very much to write about the flight. I was there, and it was on Dec the 17, — 1903 about 10 o’clock. They carried the machine up on the Hill and Put her on the track, and started the engine, and they through a coin to see who should take the first go, so it fell on Mr. Orval, and he went about 100 feet or more, and then Mr. Wilbur taken the machine up on the Hill and Put her on the track and he went off across the Beach about a half a mile or more before he came Down. He flew so close to the top of a little hill the he Pulled the Rudder off so we had to Bring her back to the camp, and it was there I got tangled up in the machine and she Blew off across the Beach with me hanging in it, and she went all to Pieces. It Didn’t Hurt me much I got bruised me some. They Packed up every thing and went home at Dayton. That ended the Day. I snapped the first Picture of a Plain that ever flew. They were very nice men and we all enjoyed Being out at the Camp with them mostly every Day.

That accident made me the first airoplane causiality in the world and I have Piece of the upright that I was holding on to when It fell.

Would be glad to Render any informattion at any time you need it.

Sincerely,

John T. Daniels
Manteo NC
Box 1W"

Unfortunately, what Daniels wrote in the letter is inconsistent with the January 1904 statement of the Wright brothers: "The starts were all made from a point on the level sand about 200 feet west of our champ" (see my previous post). Daniels twice stressed the machine had been carried up on a hill, so the plane did not take off from a flat terrain.
---------- ADS -----------
 
lownslow
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1790
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:56 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by lownslow »

I'm just going to take a wild stab at this, but Ozon can you prove that Whitehead was the first to fly using better evidence than what you're using to disprove the Wrights?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Chris M
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 367
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:41 am
Location: Toronto

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by Chris M »

Sorry, what are we on about here? I made it just over one sentence into that book before a gramatical error tripped me up.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

Chris M wrote:I made it just over one sentence into that book before a gramatical error tripped me up.
Just post here that grammatical error you have found. Is it "relive" instead of "relieve" or you are talking about something else? The grammar could be bad in many places, simply because native English speakers do not write books like this about the Wright brothers. They prefer good grammar and countless factual errors.

Anyway, neither the letters nor the articles of Amos Ives Root, quoted in full, contain grammatical errors and reading them all is like reading the book which is based on what this beekeeper and businessman said.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by ozon on Sat May 13, 2017 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

lownslow wrote:can you prove that Whitehead was the first to fly using better evidence than what you're using to disprove the Wrights?
I can prove that Whitehead never flew a plane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Meatservo
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2581
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Negative sequencial vortex

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by Meatservo »

..so it turns out that everyone lied, and NO ONE invented the aeroplane? Great! Everyone stay home today!
---------- ADS -----------
 
If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

Definitely on November 18, 1907, the flying machine you can see in the attached picture was nearly a practical plane. Orville Wright witnessed it flying. Pictures and technical drawings of the Wright planes became available starting with August 8, 1908.

The November 19, 1907, Paris edition of the New York Herald dedicated an extensive article to the attempts of H. Farman to perform a 1-kilometre flight in a circuit. The trials were witnessed by many known personalities of the aeronautic world like Santos Dumont and Louis Bleriot. Orville Wright was also there and even gave an interview to a Herald reporter. Here are some relevant extracts from this text illustrated with a few pictures, one of them showing the Farman plane flying and another Orville Wright standing:

"Mr. Orville Wright Sees Mr. Henry Farman Compete for Deutsch-Archdeacon Prize.

Image
THE AEROPLANE TAKING THE VIRAGE

… Mr. Henry Farman came within an ace of winning the Deutsch-Archdeacon prize of 50,000fr. with his aeroplane at Issy-les-Moulineaux yesterday afternoon. Had his motor worked with a trifle more regularity the money was his. He made at least ten excellent flights, but each time at the critical moment, when the apparatus with perfect balance was describing the curve the motor appeared to lack the necessary force, and the apparatus touched the ground.
The first flight, which took place about half past two, was one of some 600 mètres, finishing with a semi-circular movement, during which the wheels touched the ground. This was followed by half a dozen similar flights, all with the same result. …

The Prize Nearly Won.
Just before dusk a final effort was decided upon. This time the machine left the ground easily and traveled down the field to the turning point at a good rate of speed. In the turning the wheels touched for an instant and again a few seconds later, but after this the rest of the circle was completed with ease. For a moment the spectators appeared to think that the prize had been won, but this was not so. To win this Grand Prix de l’Aviation it is essential to complete the kilomètre in a closed circle without touching the ground in any way. …

Among those present were: … Mr. Orville Wright, of Dayton, Ohio; M. Santos-Dumont, M. Esnault-Pelterie, M. Deutsch (de La Meurthe), M. Archdeacon, M. Decugis, M. Delagrange, Mr. Maurice Farman, Captain Ferber, …, Mr. O. Berg, …, M. Blériot, …

Image
MR. HART BERG, MR ORVILLE WRIGHT, MR SAVAGE LANDOR

Mr. Orville Wright’s Opinion.
Asked by a HERALD correspondent to give his impression upon Mr. Farman’s flights, Mr. Orville Wright said he did not care under the circumstances to say much on the subject. In his opinion the flights accomplished by Mr. Farman were excellent, though he was surprised that the Deutsch-Archdeacon prize had not been won some months ago.

He thought that so far as flying in France was concerned, Mr. Farman easily took the lead over everyone else. He considered Mr. Farman an ideal aeronaut, and one who would probably help to develop the art of flying in a very great degree. …
"

(Source: “Mr. Orville Wright Sees Mr. Henry Farman Compete for Deutsch-Archdeacon
Prize”, New York Herald, Paris, November 19, 1907
)

The Wright brothers contributed nothing to the development of powered flight before August 8, 1908. The aviation appeared in 1906 without their help. They are just relatively late aviation pioneers.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Last edited by ozon on Sun May 14, 2017 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mmm..bacon
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:19 pm

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by mmm..bacon »

ozon wrote: The Wright brothers contributed nothing to the development of powered flight before August 8, 1908. The aviation appeared in 1906 without their help. They are just relatively late aviation pioneers.

...See: Canute, King.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two!
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

The big problem is that O. Chanute did not believe the two inventors who wrote him a few letters, in the summer and autumn of 1904, reporting their progress. This lack of confidence can be clearly seen from his ironic answers:

- “I am glad to see that the newspapers have not yet found you out.” (1904-05-26, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I hope that your immunity from premature publicity may continue.” (1904-06-08, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I hope that you will use great caution in your experiments, and will not run into a cow.” (1904-06-25, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I hope you will have good luck, and keep out of the newspapers.” (1904-07-04, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I expect … to receive a letter from you advising me of your final success.” (1904-07-31, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I feel confident that once you get a good start you will make a phenomenal flight.” (1904-08-14, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I … congratulate you on the good progress you have made.” (1904-09-05, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I also enclose a French clipping which lays down the rules for the $10.000 prize for a power flying machine. This prize you can win if you choose to go to France to do so.” (1904-11-19, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago);
- “I have been thinking it not unlikely that you should be called upon to go to Japan. It could well afford to give you and your brother $100.000 for a few months work in reconnoitring. Santos-Dumont would preferably be called upon by Russia, as that country follows the French lead.” (1904-12-26, O. Chanute, “Letter to W. Wright”, Chicago).

It is evident that O. Chanute highly doubted the two brothers could fly their plane so often without being remarked by the entire press in the United States. The letters are too long to be quoted in full here but, excepting those excerpts which have been already listed a few lines above, O. Chanute appears to simply ignore the impressive progress reports coming from Wilbur, preferring to talk about other things in his replies and looking like somebody who politely answers the letters of a storyteller.

Possibly, the most visible piece of evidence, regarding the lack of faith that Chanute had concerning the, out of the 1904 world, accomplishments claimed by W. Wright, is the fragment of his December 26, 1904, reply where he expressed his thoughts that Wilbur and Orville might be paid $100,000 to do aerial reconnaissance work for Japan, that time in war with Russia which could also beneficiate of a similar help coming from Santos-Dumont. Honestly, such an ironic answer was absolutely normal after the December 20, 1904, letter of the two brothers which stated they had circled their field 2 1/4 and almost 4 times on November 16 and December 1, 1904, respectively.

Like A. I. Root, who fails to convince, with what he wrote in his letters, that he witnessed the elder brother flying on September 20, 1904, Octave Chanute’s letters, sent to Wilbur, also do not provide evidence this old engineer saw a flight on October 15, 1904, as he claimed later in “Chanute on the Wright Brothers’ Achievement in Aerial Navigation” (Scientific American, April 14, 1906, col. 1, p. 307). More his letters demonstrate he did not take the two inventors into serious regarding their powered flights.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Moose47
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:45 pm
Location: Home of Canada's Air Defence

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by Moose47 »

Prevyet Comrades

Please let me put away capitalist lie Wright brothers fly first. Everyone know it was great uncle Maxim I. Dumbsonofabitch who make first airplane flight in all world. He do this in Red Square. Not once, not twice but three times in one day Many people come see amazing event including Brian Williams from MSNBC (Made-up Soviet News and Bolshevik Crapski). Hey, how come no one listen to him anway, huh? Wright Brothers pretty good bike fixers but fly airplaneski? Phewt!

Svetlana Yappalotski
---------- ADS -----------
 
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

Mozhaysky's airplane was under-powered. It weighted 950 kg and the engines delivered just 30 hp. This is 31.6 kg/hp. No early plane that was witnessed taking off from a flat surface under its own power, starting with September 13, 1906, was able to fly 31.6 kg for each horsepower.
Only the Wright brothers came close to such a performance flying, on December 17, 1903, a 338 kg plane powered by a 12 hp motor (28.1 kg/hp). Ridiculous!
---------- ADS -----------
 
ozon
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 9:54 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by ozon »

Two physical impossibilities reported by Wilbur Wright to Octave Chanute:

1) "While the new machine lifts at a speed of about 23 miles, it is only after the speed reaches 27 or 28 miles that the resistance falls below the thrust. ", Wilbur Wright, August 8, 1904

The plane lifted at 23 mph having the Thrust smaller than the Drag all the time (no catapult was used)!

2) "We find that the greatest speed over the ground is attained in the flights against the stronger breezes.", Wilbur Wright, August 28, 1904

The reality is that a headwind slows down a plane and this is exactly the opposite of what W. Wright claimed he had measured.

Only one conclusion can be drawn, the two letters describe imaginary flights and Wilbur Wright was simply bluffing (unfortunately for him using misconceptions, wrong beliefs, not good physics and math) with the intention to convince Octave Chanute and others that he had really flown.

--------------------
Letter 1: Fragment from a letter addressed by Wilbur Wright to Octave Chanute, on August 8, 1904: "One of the Saturday flights reached 600 ft. ... We have found great difficulty in getting sufficient initial velocity to get real starts. While the new machine lifts at a speed of about 23 miles, it is only after the speed reaches 27 or 28 miles that the resistance falls below the thrust. We have found it practically impossible to reach a higher speed than about 24 miles on a track of available length, and as the winds are mostly very light, and full of lulls in which the speed falls to almost nothing, we often find the relative velocity below the limit and are unable to proceed. ... It is evident that we will have to build a starting device that will render us independent of wind." Source: Page 52 of Octave Chanute Papers: Special Correspondence--Wright Brothers, 1904 | Library of Congress

Letter 2: Fragment from the letter written by Wilbur Wright to Octave Chanute on August 28, 1904: "Dayton, Ohio, August 28, 1904. Dear Mr Chanute ... ... Since the first of August we have made twenty five starts with the #2 Flyer. The longest flights were 1432 ft., 1304 ft, 1296, ft. and 1260 ft. These are about as long as we can readily make on over present grounds without circling. We find that the greatest speed over the ground is attained in the flights against the stronger breezes. We find that our speed at startup is about 29 or 30 ft per second, the last 60 ft of track being covered in from 2 to 2 1/4 seconds. The acceleration toward the end being very little. When the wind averages much below 10 ft per second it is very difficult to maintain flight, because the variations of the wind are such as to reduce the relative speed so low at times that the resistance becomes greater than the thrust of the screws. Under such circumstances the best of management will not insure a long flight, and at the best the speed accelerates very slowly. In one flight of 39 1/4 seconds the average speed over the ground was only 33 ft per second, a velocity only about 3 ft per second greater than that at startup. The wind averaged 12 ft per second. In a flight against a wind averaging 17 ft per second, the average speed over the ground was 42 ft per second, an average relative velocity of 59 ft per second and an indicated maximum velocity of 70 ft per second. We think the machine when in full flight will maintain an average relative speed of at least 45 miles an hour. This is rather more than we care for at present. Our starting apparatus is approaching completion and then we will be ready to start in calms and practice circling. Yours truly Wilbur Wright." Source: Page 55 of Octave Chanute Papers: Special Correspondence--Wright Brothers, 1904 | Library of Congress

Attention: The flights Wilbur Wright talked about in his August 8 and 28 letters to Octave Chanute (see were done close to Dayton Ohio, at a few meters above a flat pasture. No catapult was used.

Wilbur Wright did not know that the airspeed of a plane is independent of the wind-speed

The elder of the two brothers had a logbook for keeping track of the lies transmitted with the help of his letters to Octave Chanute and others. In this notebook, at page 8, with flight data about alleged flights performed on August 13, 1904, Wilbur wrote the same figures as in the August 28, 1904, text addressed to O. Chanute but in a more organised manner.

This is what he recorded and calculated (see the attached picture):

Flight 28 (second flight of August 13, 1904)
Av wind = 12.2 fps
Speed = 33.2 fps
Rel. Speed = 45.4 fps

Flight 29 (third flight of August 13, 1904)
Av wind = 17 fps
Speed = 42 fps
Rel. Speed = 59 fps

Flight 30 (fourth flight of August 13, 1904)
Av wind = 14 fps
Speed = 35 fps
Rel. Speed = 49 fps

Remark: The wind-speed was measured with a ground anemometer and the ground-speed of the plane was calculated from the flight time and the distance traveled across the pasture.

As you can see, for each of the three flights, W. Wright correctly applied the formula:

Ground Speed = Relative Speed - Wind Speed

However, he missed the fact that the relative speed (the airspeed) must be the same for all flights because a plane moving in a block of air traveling in a certain direction has no means to know that the air is moving. The plane always sees itself as traveling in calm air (no wind).

Relative Speed= ct (This is what W. Wright did not know when he did the math for his imaginary flights of August 13, 1908)

If you look at the three trials mentioned above you will see that instead of going down, with an increase of the headwind-speed, the ground-speed was also growing!!

Image
Source: https://www.loc.gov/resource/mwright.01011/?sp=6
(The 1904-1905 Notebook of Wilbur Wright)

Definitely what Wilbur wrote in his logbook and in the August 28, 1904, letter to O. Chanute is a proven fraud. He simply could not have obtained three different air-speeds for three distinct headwind-speeds had he and his brother really flown a powered plane.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Cliff Jumper
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:22 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by Cliff Jumper »

Ok, so let's pretend that is all true. Why are you wasting your time trying to convince a few anonymous people on avcanada?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
5x5
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:30 pm

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by 5x5 »

Cliff Jumper wrote:Ok, so let's pretend that is all true. Why are you wasting your time trying to convince a few anonymous people on avcanada?
I'm sure it's because that's just what he does. (ozon pictured here at the latest Flat Earth Society meeting)
Image
---------- ADS -----------
 
Being stupid around airplanes is a capital offence and nature is a hanging judge!

“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Mark Twain
rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 691
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by rxl »

Beefitarian wrote:Holy macaroni. Heavier than air flight is a myth?
Does this mean that we all get the day off work tomorrow?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Zaibatsu
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:37 am

Re: A. I. Root, liar no. 4 after the Wright Brothers and their mentor, Octave Chanute

Post by Zaibatsu »

The biggest case for the Wrights being first was the massive amount of litigation between Glenn Curtiss and the Smithsonian regarding the Wright Brother's patents. They took Samuel Langley's Aerodrome out of storage, and secretly modified it so it was capable of flight so it would negate their first flight claim and end the patent dispute.

Had they not made their flight or had their machine been incapable of flight, there would have been no need to do this. Likewise had Gustav Whitehead or others flown before the Wrights, that exercise with the Aerodrome would have been unnecessary.

Nearly half a century later, the Smithsonian admitted with great embarrassment that they had tried to discredit the Wrights, and offered a permanent home for the Flyer. Why do this if it was all a fraud?

Maybe the Flyer flew in 1903, maybe it didn't. But what is not up for dispute is the system of control they used was the most advanced, was not invented prior to them using it, and is present in some form on nearly every aircraft today (exceptions being aircraft like the B-2 and trikes).

The Farman pictured didn't have it. Sure it can fly higher and faster and further thanks to a triumph of thrust over aerodynamics, but it is nowhere near as advanced as the Flyer. It had massive fixed tail surfaces which endeavoured to reduce the lazy side slipping through the air ever time it turned.

This was the key to the Flyer, and why Curtiss went through such great lengths to circumvent the Wright's patents: first through using separate airfoils for ailerons vs integral or wing warping, then through discrediting the Wrights' claim.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”