It's interesting, it not a little shocking that some continue to try to compare airlines to "basic" airplanes. If you can use your rudder to determine your dead engine on an Aztec, why not an ATR 72? An ATR 72, (and I can't state the significance enough) is NOT an Aztec.
Advanced aircraft, be it automation, high performance or simply large, may incorporate systems where the yaw induced by an engine failure may be reduced significantly. Yaw damper, rudder boost (like in some Kingairs), APR (or equivalent), and any number of subsystems may make it difficult. That's why these airplanes, also unlike an Aztec has a central warning system that TELLS you what engine failed and in general, how it failed. Keep in mind that a runaway or an APR fault is possible as well so using the rudder method on a turboprop may lead to shutting down the wrong engine as well.
Aircraft with fuselage mounted engines have less differential thrust effects especially at cruise and descent power settings.
The point here is that regardless of the type, follow the published procedures and before you shut down an engine, "V"erify which one should be shut down and/or secured.
Too much automation? No such thing. Automation is generally used to enable certification of aircraft that would otherwise be very "high workload". In this case, the flight crew seemed to be improperly trained and fought the automation instead of working with it.
TransAsia Airways plane carrying more than 50 people crashes
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Re: TransAsia Airways plane carrying more than 50 people cra
I cannot even fathom intentionally continuing a takeoff in a machine of that size with the autofeather system not functioning. It's like going flying without fire/smoke protection. They intended to fly without it, however it apparently armed just prior to getting airborne. Now we know that their decision making and leadership/followership skills are near zero.
Then the engine flames out (that's what they say in the transcript and that's what their engine warning system indicated). So one would expect that in the year 2014 that an air carrier would have some "standard calls" for such an event? Apparently not. What I'm reading in the transcript (rough translation, and also not complete, I understand) is nothing but jibberish. They might as well have been speaking Slobovian to each other. Communication skills near zero. Of course their situational awareness was also near nothing; they had no idea what their airplane was into, or what it was telling them. Icing on the cake: the PF tries twice to engage the autopilot afterwards as both engines are producing zero power, the airplane is flirting with the stick shaker and they are sinking fast through about 600'. Workload management? Well there was some increased workload with no management.
This was a perfectly flyable airplane with a simple engine flameout. It should've been a non-event. But these guys were an accident waiting to happen: they had no business in that airplane. I wouldn't have trusted the 2 of them to organize a carpooled drive to work together. With their pilots lacking CRM skills, system & procedural knowledge and plain old flying skills, the poor folks in the back were doomed from the start.
Then the engine flames out (that's what they say in the transcript and that's what their engine warning system indicated). So one would expect that in the year 2014 that an air carrier would have some "standard calls" for such an event? Apparently not. What I'm reading in the transcript (rough translation, and also not complete, I understand) is nothing but jibberish. They might as well have been speaking Slobovian to each other. Communication skills near zero. Of course their situational awareness was also near nothing; they had no idea what their airplane was into, or what it was telling them. Icing on the cake: the PF tries twice to engage the autopilot afterwards as both engines are producing zero power, the airplane is flirting with the stick shaker and they are sinking fast through about 600'. Workload management? Well there was some increased workload with no management.
This was a perfectly flyable airplane with a simple engine flameout. It should've been a non-event. But these guys were an accident waiting to happen: they had no business in that airplane. I wouldn't have trusted the 2 of them to organize a carpooled drive to work together. With their pilots lacking CRM skills, system & procedural knowledge and plain old flying skills, the poor folks in the back were doomed from the start.
