Turkey shoots down Russian fighter...

[TeePeeCreeper]

How on earth did a thread I started about a Russian fighter Jet being shot down by the Turkish army degenerate into a debate about the Syrian refugee crisis and U.S. Presidential candidates?

Back on track shall we?

-Was the Russian jet actually in Turkish sovreign territory?

-If so was it accidental or on purpose?

[Rockie]

Here, Rockie. I found one on 'cultural Marxism'.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

Yeah, call me a rube but I had no idea what buddy was talking about...and then I started reading and found out.

[B208]

Hey Rockie, hate to spoil your party, but I like Ben Carson for the next POTUS. So, you can put the race card back on the bottom of the deck where you got it from. If you want true racism you should take a look at the concept of white privilege that the cultural Marxists are pedalling through academia.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Heard the Russians recovered the FDR from the SU-24 and want to have it opened and analysed in presence of international observers....

[Rockie]

B208

I wish I had a nickel for every time you said "cultural Marxist". What the hell is that anyway? Use your words...no references to white supremist websites please.

[B208]

B208

I wish I had a nickel for every time you said "cultural Marxist". What the hell is that anyway? Use your words...no references to white supremist websites please.

Well, you'd only have about a $1.00; and you asked for it....

Cultural Marxism in a nutshell is a derivative of classical Marxism. Classical Marxism views all of society's ills as being a result of conflict between economic classes. It incites it's adherents to spread their 'faith' via any means possible: i.e. "Workers of the world unite", and "The long march through the institutions." The second reference is key. Marx induced his followers to infiltrate the institutions, i.e. Academia, The Civil Service, etc and use their positions to spread their faith and supress opposition.
Cultural Marxism differs from classical Marxism in that it views all of society's ills as a result of conflict between cultures. It retains the other tenets of Marxism. If is what gave birth to Political Correctness (an Orwellian attempt to control the debate by controlling the language)

Now, Rockie; Your thoughts on my endorsement of Ben Carson and your opinion of white priveledge?

[Rockie]

Now, Rockie; Your thoughts on my endorsement of Ben Carson

Camouflage.

[B208]

Hmmm....looks like someone is a sore looser.

Rockie, both Joes, (Stalin and McCarthy) are smiling up at you from their pit of torment. You do understand that Cultural Marxism is really just McCarthyism repurposed to serve left wing ideals, right? They both attempt to silence their opposition by labelling. In practical terms, intolerant liberals use the racist label to suppress their opposition in exactly the same way McCarthyites used the communist label to silence theirs. So, congratulations Rockie, you're following in the foot steps of one of the paragons of right wing thought, well done.
As for my Presidential pick, no camouflage whatsoever. I look at Ben Carson and I see a man who has accomplished difficult things, (became a neurosurgeon), has a sound platform, and is not one of the insiders. Contrast this to Obama, who has never really accomplished anything other than distributing other people's money. I will have to admit, that given free rein, Carson would not be my first pick. I will admit that my real pick for POTUS is horribly biased. I'd like Colin Powell, (you see, I just have a lot more faith in those who have served than I have in those who haven't)

So, Rockie, what do you think of the concept of white priveledge?

Also, WRT the shoot down; The Russians had been baiting the Turks for a while, they got what was coming.

[Rockie]

Well, it looks like we have something in common. I think Colin Powell would make an excellent President as well.

[bandaid]

Keep this civil or it will be locked.

[2R]

Turkey shoots down a Russian aircraft that is not a threat to them and it fails to start WW3.
Turkey invades Iraq and refuses to leave when the Iraq Government makes several formal requests for Turkish military and tanks to to leave Iraq .
Turkey is Killing the Kurdish fighters who are fighting ISIS/Da'esh/Bad guys of the week, and still no WW3 .

Do you still believe all those diplomats in Paris this week were really discussing the weather


As for Powell being the leader of the free world ,I doubt he could do a worse job than the present Leadership has done. Since promoting the instability in the Arab spring and supporting fascists in the Ukraine . He might even do a little bit better than the failures in the present leadership. But he would have to run as an Independent .When he was a Republican he put his race above the party that welcomed him .

Anyway the "Weather talks in Paris " are over ,I wonder when the shooting starts.
Be nice if we had some new twin engine fighters before the shooting starts ,but Turkey's next transgression , aggressions and provocations may get the party started before we can get ready to defend ourselves

[B208]

Well, it looks like we have something in common. I think Colin Powell would make an excellent President as well.

It looks like we have an accord.

Keep this civil or it will be locked.

Yeah Rockie, stop shouting; You're upsetting gramdma..../Joke

[B208]

Turkey shoots down a Russian aircraft that is not a threat to them and it fails to start WW3.
Turkey invades Iraq and refuses to leave when the Iraq Government makes several formal requests for Turkish military and tanks to to leave Iraq .
Turkey is Killing the Kurdish fighters who are fighting ISIS/Da'esh/Bad guys of the week, and still no WW3 .

Do you still believe all those diplomats in Paris this week were really discussing the weather


As for Powell being the leader of the free world ,I doubt he could do a worse job than the present Leadership has done. Since promoting the instability in the Arab spring and supporting fascists in the Ukraine . He might even do a little bit better than the failures in the present leadership. But he would have to run as an Independent .When he was a Republican he put his race above the party that welcomed him .

Anyway the "Weather talks in Paris " are over ,I wonder when the shooting starts.
Be nice if we had some new twin engine fighters before the shooting starts ,but Turkey's next transgression , aggressions and provocations may get the party started before we can get ready to defend ourselves

That weaves back and forth over the line between paraody and prescience.....

[2R]

The Diplomats are talking about the Turkish fishing boats aggression against a Russian ship near a Greek island.
If Turkey attacks Russia , They cannot invoke the NATO treaty against Russia in a War they are attempting to start. The Russians showed restraint and discipline by not sinking the Turkish fishing vessel . I doubt the Turks will be so lucky the next time. Now that they have shown how easy it is to get so close to a Destroyer armed with Nukes. Let us hope that the boats filled with Isis fighters crossing the med do not hijack a boat like that, or the balloons will be going up.

[crazyaviator]

I think Colin Powell would make an excellent President as well

Perhaps you folks have forgotten about Iran-contra, Panama WMD ( Iraq ) His stint in Veitnam burning down villages of innocent Vietnamese
Powells speech at the UN prior to USA s illegal invasion was full of bull. This would would indeed make a good puppet for the NWO folks though

[crazyaviator]

BTW, Saddam was promised that the USA would not interfere in the regional conflict that was to become the take-over of Kuwait. It was a set-up
Thereafter, the American power brokers did every conceivable thing in their power to launch a war which killed MANY innocent men, women and CHILDREN !
Powell IS a war criminal, just like Bush, his daddy and Prescott too. Obama is another war criminal- puppet
Just to keep this on track, Was Bush Jr even intelligent enough to fly a plane ?

[Moose47]

"Was Bush Jr even intelligent enough to fly a plane ?"

You are joking, right???

[Rockie]

Bush Sr. got Jr. enrolled into the Texas ANG to avoid active service in Vietnam which was the practice in those days for the children of the powerful and connected. He flew F-102's but his attendance record was spotty at best, and in 1972 he was suspended from flying duties because he missed his medical. He never flew again and sometime later he received an honourable discharge.

[Moose47]

G'day

"Bush Sr. got Jr. enrolled into the Texas ANG to avoid active service in Vietnam which was the practice in those days for the children of the powerful and connected"

Yes, the Guard and Reserve were havens for the kids of the rich and politically connected who did not want to serve in Viet Nam. These squadrons was known as 'Champagane Units'. I am sure there were rich kids in the four Air National Guard fighter squadrons that were mobilized and served in Viet Nam too. Not to mention the numerous Air Force Reserve units that supported operations in Viet Nam. You can say what you want about Bush. At least he donned the uniform of his country, albeit for a short undistinguishable period of time. That says a lot more than the bunch from the entertainment industry and all those athletes that never served a day in their lives. They kept of getting deferments for the lamest of reasons. I know by the early 70's the chances of his unit being sent to Vietnam were virtually non-existent but there was still a cold war going on. They could quite easily have been called on to relieve an active duty unit for whatever reason. Other Guard units did that. Chances are that it would have been with Air Defence Command as he was flying a Deuce. By the way, the U. S. rectified this situation with the total force policy. There are no more 'Champagne' units anywhere in the U. S. military.

Here is a photo for crazyaviator. No Bush did not pay five bucks to get dressed up and have his picture taken in the F-102. The from what I was told by a senior officer that was with the unit at the time, Bush was a decent pilot. Too bad he threw it all away. You can say what you want about Bush, but at least acknowledge the fact that he was a fellow aviator.


Cheers...Chris

[Moose47]

G'day crazyaviator

"the American power brokers did every conceivable thing in their power to launch a war which killed MANY innocent men, women and CHILDREN !
Powell IS a war criminal, just like Bush, his daddy and Prescott too. Obama is another war criminal- puppet"

You conveniently missed a few names. Joseph Stalin, Che Guvera, Fidel Castro, Nelson Mandela. Pol Pot and the list goes on.

Cheers...Chris

[2R]

Raul Castro should also be on that list as he did his part in the killing of 72,000 people in Cuba.

The Turks have claimed to have removed some of their illegal forces in Iraq, no talk if they will remove their tanks from the North of Iraq. Why did the Turkish tanks not move when they were needed in Sinjar ?
Or does illegally crossing borders only happen when they are "training " Kurds. "Training" must be a new code word .

The Russians have effectively closed down the Turkish fighters as no Turkish military aircraft have come out to play against the Russian fighters since the Turkish air farce used an American weapon to stab the Russians in the back.

[dhc#]

Speaking of getting stabbed in the back.

http://www.interpretermag.com/an-invasi ... n-ukraine/

[crazyaviator]

You conveniently missed a few names. Joseph Stalin, Che Guvera, Fidel Castro, Nelson Mandela. Pol Pot and the list goes on.

And Saddam Hussein , not conveniently missed, just thought they were too obvious

[Illya Kuryakin]

What was the question again?
Illya

[Gilles Hudicourt]

There were a few exchanges on this thread recently about biased media and how some were claiming western media was free and not government propaganda. I disagreed. I just found a jewel to illustrate my case. A BBC article from today:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35197480

"Iran tests US patience with rocket fire"
Iran conducts 'provocative' live rocket tests near US ships
The USS Harry S Truman was among three warships in the vicinity of the Iranian tests
Iran's navy conducted rocket tests last week near US warships and other commercial vessels in the Strait of Hormuz, the American military has said.
The tests threaten to cause new tensions between the two nations following their landmark nuclear deal.
Iran fired "several unguided rockets" about 1,370m (1,500 yards) from two US vessels and a French frigate, US military spokesman Kyle Raines said.
The tests were "highly provocative", said Cmdr Raines.

The BBC fails to mention that those rockets were fired in the course of joint Iran-Oman navy exercises that had been announced by the Iranians and the Omanis, which are the two countries on either side of the Straight of Hormuz.

http://english.irib.ir/news/iran1/item/ ... al-sayyari

The Japan times reports that the Iranian ships that fired the rockets were themselves inside of Omani waters, the country with which which they were doing the pre-announced joint exercises.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/1 ... oPw7xUrJph

Why was the USN Harry S. Truman close to an Iranian navy ship, itself inside Omani waters, while it was firing rockets within military exercises that had been announced days earlier, one might ask ? Does anyone think that the Harry Truman's presence at that particular moment and location was an accident or a coincidence ? The BBC would never call that "provocative".

If an Iranian navy ship was 1500 yards outside of US waters off the coast of Norfolk, Virginia, after the US Navy had announced that it would be doing live firing exercises in the area and on that very day, would the Iranians claim that the US was being "provocative", and if they did, would the BBC echo those ridiculous remarks ?

The US thinks that when Iranians do military exercises inside of Iran or in Iranian territorial waters, that they are being "provocative". And the free western BBC echoes always echoes such nonsense. Yet the constant presence of US warships off the coast of Iran, and thousands of miles from the closest US territory is never reported as "provocative" by the likes of the BBC. Because the BBC is biased.

No one should forget that the US entered the Vietnam war after it had falsely claimed that North Vietnamese gunboats had attacked a US destroyer that was itself right off the coast of North Vietnam, in the Gulf of Tonkin, just outside Vietnamese territorial waters and thousands of miles from the US, where it had no business other than stirring trouble. Everyone fell for the ploy, and no one learns from the past. Lets stop falling into the same traps year after year. It is never the sons and daughters of Lockheed-Martin executives and shareholders who are sent to these wars as gun fodder.

The role of a free press is not to echo propaganda and disinformation but to report the truth and call the lies when such lies are discovered.