Fear of reprisal from TC

Sulako · Post by **Sulako** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:41 am

legaleagle, I liked you better when you were TorontoGuy, and I wasn't very fond of TG. I sense further bannination coming up...

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:32 am

This thread has turned into a mud flinging contest. It no longer has anything to do with TC? If we could bring it back on topic?

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:38 am

Mitch Cronin wrote:
Doc wrote:You want me to moderate there CID? Nothing would be more fun for me, than popping open a couple of cold beers, and deleting everything you've ever posted! But that ain't the name of the game. Just wondering what you gain from trolling? You are a troll, you know?
Why Doc? Because he disagrees with you? Because he disagrees with CAT?

I'm disgusted by what I've seen here. Doc you seem to to leave a LOT to be desired as a moderator. CID is no Troll. Time and time again, because CID happens to disagree with the much beloved CAT, it get's into a pissing match with the whole gang... (.'s groupies?)

Doc, That "fear of reprisal from CAT" thread and your evident deletion of it's content, coupled with your lack of proper moderation here does indeed appearto confirm you are heavily biased.... for what it's worth, from what I've seen here, I think I might understand that fear of reprisal... it may have been a valid point. Disagree with him, and soon, even the moderators will be trashing you?
What a shame...

Most of us don't peruse this forum to get pissed off. Life's too short for that kind of silliness to get under our skin....
Joe, thanks for this site, it still has a very worthwhile upside, but you might want to have a word with Doc about what he should and should not do as a mod... ?
(Please notice Doc... Nowhere here have I attacked your character, it's only your actions and comments in this matter that I question... you may be a terrific guy? How would I know?)

legaleagle, I liked you better when you were TorontoGuy, and I wasn't very fond of TG. I sense further bannination coming up...

Mitch..............I was going to stay out of this one but you hit the nail square on the head. It smacks of a hockey game with bought and paid for refs. Everyone has an opinion and as a reader, I think CID had some valid points. Agree or disagree with him, it doesn't matter, but censorship of someones opinion is just wrong.

Springbok 2 · Post by **Springbok 2** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:41 am

Wow, lets sum this one up:

Cat posts inviting discussion from others that have similar issues with TC.

CID immedialtely jumps on the anti-Cat bandwagon and demands more detail

Driving Rain locks onto CID`s ELT

Treykule did not get it

Doc predicts CID ranting and raving

Beentheredonethat tells Cat to @#$! off and stay in Europe

Cats confirms he is there

CID squeals for moderation from Doc

Doc and CID go one on one while Northshore gets a cockstand beacuse he thinks the CID ID has been exposed and he demands action

CID settles Northshore`s hard on and they bond

leagleagle604 bombs in from out of the sun posting as a virgin and blows some heavy shit and mumbo jumbo at CAT

Mitch Cronin fearlessly wades in and slams Doc for the lack of unbiased moderation

leagleagle604 realises that he has the floor and makes the most of it

Wildcat takes a drag of his wackbacky and calls for "peace brother"

leagleagle604 misinterprets the above

gr8gazu pisses into the fire by identifying leageagle604 as CID in cunning disguise and Dust Devil pleads innocence on a previous CID accusation.

Wildcat takes another drag on his smoke and chews down some more meat and potatoe while pleading for peace!

Sulako drops the ultimate bomb with inside info that leagleagle604 is none other than Torontoguy..........place goes very quiet while this info is digested and reality sinks in.......!

.......except for Jacques Strappe who sides with Mitch and calls Doc out to face the draw

And that is what makes life on Avcan so damn interesting and such fucking good reading. Lets hope this thread does not get pulled.

zzjayca · Post by **zzjayca** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:47 am

Sulako wrote:legaleagle, I liked you better when you were TorontoGuy, and I wasn't very fond of TG. I sense further bannination coming up...

Just curious, does Cat Driver have all mods in his back pocket or just you and Doc?

I see nothing in legaleagle's post that supports banning him/her from the site other than he tore apart the bs with logic and now none of you are able to come up with counter points.

Doc wrote:This thread has turned into a mud flinging contest. It no longer has anything to do with TC? If we could bring it back on topic?

I guess only you can start a mud flinging contest eh Doc? Ever check out some of the threads/postings by Doc in the ATS forum?

Post by **avcanada** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:32 am

If you have recently received a threat via PM or email from legaleagle please forward it on to me.

Joe

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:07 am

I'm sorry, I've been away flying, did I miss anything interesting?

Sulako · Post by **Sulako** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:09 am

zzjayca wrote:
Sulako wrote:legaleagle, I liked you better when you were TorontoGuy, and I wasn't very fond of TG. I sense further bannination coming up...
Just curious, does Cat Driver have all mods in his back pocket or just you and Doc?

Sorry zzjayca, this has nothing to do with the actual content of this post. I have met Cat Driver and immensely respect his experience flying - however Cat Driver and I differ on a fair amount of things, and I generally stay away from his TC-related stuff.

The person posting as legaleagle was banned previously, and I am reminding a banned member that he is no longer welcome here. I can't comment any further, but please trust me when I say his bannination was very well-deserved the first time. I'm sure the whole story will eventually come out, and we will be able to discuss it at length then. When we do, remind me to remind you about this post, you'll have a chuckle

Anyway, sorry to threadjack this post. I'll start the ball rolling again...

So, how about that TC agency...

laticsdave · Post by **laticsdave** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:10 am

This thread is better than Judge Judy & Jerry Springer ... combined.

carholme · Post by **carholme** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:36 am

If we are going to get back on topic, I for one accept that Cat Driver has a problem with TC and is endeavouring to do something about it.
Does anybody else have a particular problem with TC in which they fear speaking about it will bring down the wrath of the minister upon them?

AND:

1. Do we all feel that 703 is in serious trouble with a majority of bad
operators?

2. What do we mean by "bad operators"? Is it that these operators are
knowingly performing illegal operations by circumventing CARS or is
it mainly the way they treat people as has been previously discussed
in the posts with reference to Sonic Blue?

3. Has anybody read the latest SATOPS report and do you think this is
really a document which is going to address aviation safety in Canada?
Personally, I think it has hardly touched the real issues and if that is
what we can produce after so many years, why are we paying taxes?

4. Why cannot every aircraft owner in this country be required to submit
an anuual report of hours flown and whether they were accident free or
not? We always filed something similar with the old CCI report.
SATOPS seems to provide an excuse that we do not have a good
method of gathering the data.

5. If the problem is with the regulator, why can't we talk about it openly.
We for one do not feel that reprisal is a word we should even consider.
We set out to form our own company which is going to be controlled by
ourselves within the confines of the regulations. If we stay and operate
within those confines, no regulator is going to threaten us without
concrete evidence to support their claim. We weren't born yesterday
and making a study of CARs is a good way to protect your company or
individual position from regulator abuse.

6. Is there a specific problem with 703, flight, ops, maintenance or any
other avenue which gives us this bad reputation?

Who are we bitching at? Is it the operators because they don't pay us enough, provide enough parts for maintenance, and force us to do things we know full well are improper? Is it the regulator and do we feel we are being abused by them, being overloaded with regulation or in the end is it ourselves because we choose to accept given conditions without doing anything about it?

I had a discussion with Tc the other day and stated that I felt 703 was in a poor condition to start having to think about SMS. I am not slamming the safety issue but if we are going to get serious about it, we have to have an industry for the most part that is operating within the regulations. We know from personal experience with several operators, that an understanding of CARs is the most distant thing from their operational thinking and is only referenced when a question arises. We will never be able to implement SMS if we don't already have the fundamentals in place.

The real question is whether or not 703 has the capacity or desire to do something about the problem if indeed we feel that there is one.
There is absolutely no way that any operator in this country should feel threatened from the regulator. We agree that Cat Driver feels he has a case to be resolved. we are not questioning the specifics of his case nor do we want to be judge and jury of any part of it. It may typify that there are problems like this out there and if there are, we should damn well be aware of them. This is our industry, nobody else's.

carholme

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:10 am

Does anybody else have a particular problem with TC in which they fear speaking about it will bring down the wrath of the minister upon them?

You're new to the industry, right?

Everyone knows (except . and I) that you don't piss into the wind.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:29 am

carholme;

You say..

" There is absolutely no way that any operator in this country should feel threatened from the regulator. We agree that Cat Driver feels he has a case to be resolved. we are not questioning the specifics of his case nor do we want to be judge and jury of any part of it. It may typify that there are problems like this out there and if there are, we should damn well be aware of them. This is our industry, nobody else's. "

You are 100% correct no operator " should " feel threatened by the regulator.

I can without any doubt prove to the industry that in my region " Pacific Region " you had better fear getting on the wrong side of several of TCCA's top officials...

...there are several operators who are communicating with me about the abuse of power and lack of honesty, integrity in several of the top TC officials.

They are afraid of retaliation period.

I can and will prove beyond doubt that they are justified in their fear...

My problem is I am unable to find anyone with the power to help me get these issues in an open forum where something can be done to bring fairness and honesty back into the management of TCCA.

What more can I do? I am open as to my identity and am willing to share my documentation with someone who can do justice to what I am exposing.

It is academic, if you have dishonesty and abuse of power within the regulator you have no true fair legal regulation...

. .

Wild Cat · Post by **Wild Cat** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:57 am

Meat n Potatoes man

CID · Post by **CID** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:16 am

WTF are you talking about? I haven't posted shit in this thread!

I apologize Dust Devil. It was your shadow Driving Rain that I was responding to.

For the record, I am not legaleagle604 or anyone that Cat Driver has attempted to identify. Nor do I approve of his tactics to try to assign a name to those of us who prefer to remain anonymous.

Cat Driver provides us all with very good reason to remain anonymous lest you risk having your livlihood threatened.

I also take issue with the moderators who have exposed their obvious bias and allowed this discussion to escalate to this point.

Perhaps its time to lock this thread up and restart. Personally, I have made a promise to myself to avoid participating in a TC bitchfest with Cat Driver in the future. Life is too short to deal with such frustration.

Cheers

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:31 pm

CID wrote:
WTF are you talking about? I haven't posted shit in this thread!
I apologize Dust Devil. It was your shadow Driving Rain that I was responding to.

For the record, I am not legaleagle604 or anyone that Cat Driver has attempted to identify. Nor do I approve of his tactics to try to assign a name to those of us who prefer to remain anonymous.

Cat Driver provides us all with very good reason to remain anonymous lest you risk having your livlihood threatened.

I also take issue with the moderators who have exposed their obvious bias and allowed this discussion to escalate to this point.

Perhaps its time to lock this thread up and restart. Personally, I have made a promise to myself to avoid participating in a TC bitchfest with Cat Driver in the future. Life is too short to deal with such frustration.

Cheers

Apology accepted. I think everyone knows you and I are the best of pals

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:36 pm

Mother Goose.. I'm so disappointed that you forgot me in your hillarious post.... I feel left out..

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:03 pm

carholme....
re your item 5 about "reprisals" and "no regulator is going to threaten us without concrete evidence".

Sorry, but that is sheer naivety. I have been there, had that.

"Oversight" at TC has become to mean access to a peephole while some useless, spineless bullying moron who cannot make it in the industry gives it to you where the sun don't shine.

Unfortunately, due to "reprisals" a lot of good people at TC are also onlookers who feel they cannot make a commitment.

I posted earlier, encouraging some PMs to help Cat Driver out. I did this because on this site, criticism by contributors has labelled at least one TC inspector and I have personally talked to operators who are at their wits end as to how to defend themselves.

NOTHING.

Talk is cheap, evidently.

The lofty talk of legaleagle604 does nothing. There have been legal challenges, one at least is ongoing, and there will be others. Unfortunately, without some kind of association, a "voice", nothing gets done. Only unity will make any kind of headway.

TC is a ministry formed to serve the needs of Canadian citizens. As has been said again and again, wrongdoers need to be rooted out and fired.

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:14 pm

snaproll20 wrote: TC is a ministry formed to serve the needs of Canadian citizens. As has been said again and again, wrongdoers need to be rooted out and fired.

Hmmmm can anyone tell me why the CTA is around?

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:40 pm

Mother Goose wrote:Wow, lets sum this one up:

Thanks Mother Goose,
I havn't seen something summed up that good since Broke Back Bunny.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:27 pm

" Unfortunately, due to "reprisals" a lot of good people at TC are also onlookers who feel they cannot make a commitment."

That is so true it is sad.

Snaproll20, I have at least one and possibly two TC inspectors who is willing to tell all if I can get him under the protection of being subpoened.

A lot of the good ones have just left TC and went on with their lives.

As to oerators I have two and possibly four who will testify if we can get enough people to form some circle of protection from TC retubition.

My biggest hope is Mr. Huggett can get the ball rolling.

I can bring forth proof that top TC officials in the Pacific Region were found guilty of " with holding, changing and altering documents " during an internal investigation, they lost on appeal on that one.

Mr. Huggetts position is made more viable if he can show that such dishonesty and crooked leadership is right at the top in the Pacific Region and to the best of my knowledge has not changed.

. .

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:43 pm

Carholme states "making a study of CARs is a good way to protect your company or individual position from regulator abuse." I agree and advocate a good understanding of the rules lest you be intimidated by TC, Chief Pilots, the cop on the street or whatever. The problem is that the CARS are such a crappy document, difficult to read and awkward to locate items in a timely fashion, let alone interpret (Like the sections on duty times...). It is hopeless to expect the regulator to explain it to you (I have tried numerous times to get a ruling from them, and they will simply refuse) so you are already playing against a stacked deck. In my experience, the Minister granted our company an exemption from the duty time regulations, in a signed letter, that was so vaguely worded that nobody in the company could consistently interpret it. Management took it as carte blanche to operate as they chose, and the pilots, whose lives and livelihoods were at stake, interpreted it very narrowly. Chaos and acrimony in the company resulted.

The whole regulatory abuse problem, in my opinion, is that TC has too much latitude to interpret the CARS in ways that play into its own agenda. Unless you are powerful enough or rich enough to have help, you are likely to just take your lumps and go quietly away.

The basis of reform must be an overhaul of the CARS. The rules must be transparent and logical and eliminate as much or all of the necessity for interpretation. And the Minister must never be able to grant exemptions (make up the laws/rules) willy-nilly just because someone with an agenda asks him to.

An educated public need not fear its own government.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:55 pm

I can't say I've ever had the displeasure of poor service from TC (except that stupid medical porcessing fee), but that doesn't mean I don't believe that some who work there are below board. I've met a few cops in my time that got the story a little twisted. I don't think every cop is cooked, but I KNOW some are a little less than perfect.

Hey Cat, you should try to get in touch with Mr. Huggett. It seems to me that your goals are similar. Incidently I was talking to a guy who happens to know him, and he said that the man has the money, the will and the time to see this one through to conclusion. Sorry I can't help you get in touch with the man, I can't remember the name of the friend, but he is in Nanaimo I think. If I ever run into him again I'll see if I can get a # or something.

This might be the chance you've been waiting for Cat. I know you're discouraged, and probably feel that someone else should take a turn at it. But if, as you say, things are really that bad in your case, perhaps your case is the proverbial straw Mr. Huggett needs? Food for thought...

Keep it blue side up everyone.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:00 am

" Hey Cat, you should try to get in touch with Mr. Huggett. It seems to me that your goals are similar. "

Thanks mello_ pilot, fortunately Mr. Huggett and I are working very closely together.

We both are confident that I have enough proven evidence of corruption within the top level of TCCA in the Pacific Region and condoned by Ottawa TCCA that it will cement his allegations that the regulator is long due for a thourough house cleaning.....

.....only public outrage will motivate the elected officials to bring about such changes.

It should be interesting to see how this goes.

I must run now as I have some recurrent water training to do, so these guys are legal for another year.

Cat

snaproll20 · Post by **snaproll20** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:40 am

xsbank......

your comments are right on.

Unfortunately, you won't get the CARS re-written. I remember the rule about "8 hours IFR flight" being misinterpreted every which way to Sunday.
It took TC about 8 years to provide a ruling explanation on it.

There have been improvements overall, but you are absolutely right about the CARS being confusing.

That does not mean that one individual should be able to hose you, without proper discussion, examination and certainly, some leeway to correct any misinterpretations you or your company may have.
This comes back to the desired homogenous application of the rules across the nation, a fact TC has openly admitted various from region to region. Maybe they should get their house in order before they pick on us.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:17 am

The truth is even the so called interperting of a rule means zero to some TC officials.

When they did me and my company they confirmed in writing signed by the Manager of M&M that I met the requirements of a CAR.

The Regional Director of TCCA Pacific Region phoned me at home two days before a meeting with me and my lawyer in Victoria ordered by the DGCA to get my FTU application back on track.

At the meeting they sandbagged me by stating that I did not meet the requirements in CAR's.

My lawyer produced the letter signed by the Manager of M&M who was present at the meeting that stated clearly that I did meet the requirement as written in CAR's, all to no avail as the Regional Director CA stated that after talking to Ottawa the decision had been changed and I did not meet the requirement.

So how can anyone deal with people who are so dishonest and so lacking in morals that the Regional Director CA phones you to confirm that everything is O.K. and the problem would be solved at a meeting in two days....then get sandbagged and driven even further behind than when it all started.

I can not think of any other industry in Canada where such dishonesty and miss use of the law would be condoned..but TCCA think that they are above the law.

. .