Flair Airlines - Planes seized

[newlygrounded]

Anyone who didn’t see this coming is blind.

Funny, I had the same feeling about people who said they wouldn’t exist past 2020 or the cta ruling

[cdnavater]

One hedge fund cockroach sees a better income for his planes somewhere else & takes them back,another sees a chance to make money & leases them aircraft to replace these - looks like a normal day.

I’m sure you are grasping at straws, I don’t mean this is a disrespectful way but you have blinders.
Flair missed a payment of 1 million, if you read the details out there this has been on going and may not even have been what was owed, just what was owed that day which was five days late.
Both leasing companies were shopping around but I’m certain could not just arbitrarily break their leases without cause, they may be cockroaches but if Flair didn’t give them a reason to shop around they couldn’t have done what they did.

[newlygrounded]

I read an article that mentioned the leases in question were pandemic leases at an approximate 200,000/month, same aircraft are now leasing for 4-600 grand per month.
If they couldn’t make money with cheap leases, how will they grow now?
Best case, they get enough money together to keep the current or slightly smaller fleet going and grow more organically as demand dictates.
One thing for sure, 8 dollar airfare is not profitable, must’ve been using the AIFs etc that were being collected as revenue for the bills.
Anyone know how often those fees are due for remittance? Is is monthly, semi monthly or bi annually?

I think the issue was from some new routes that didn’t fill up

[cdnavater]

Anyone who didn’t see this coming is blind.

Funny, I had the same feeling about people who said they wouldn’t exist past 2020 or the cta ruling

The CTA ruling may have been the catalyst, 777 had indirect control and was forced to pull back, perhaps they reevaluated their investment.
It’s also possible the numbers, which they had access to didn’t jive to what they thought would happen and decided not to throw good money after bad.
We will know the extent of debt soon enough, if they file bankruptcy it’ll come out, if they continue as a going concern it wasn’t as bad as initially thought and all current Flair pilots keep their jobs.
Which makes it more upsetting that the FOs who were counting on quick upgrades, may be waiting longer than they planned when agreeing to the contract.

[newlygrounded]

Anyone who didn’t see this coming is blind.

Funny, I had the same feeling about people who said they wouldn’t exist past 2020 or the cta ruling

The CTA ruling may have been the catalyst, 777 had indirect control and was forced to pull back, perhaps they reevaluated their investment.
It’s also possible the numbers, which they had access to didn’t jive to what they thought would happen and decided not to throw good money after bad.
We will know the extent of debt soon enough, if they file bankruptcy it’ll come out, if they continue as a going concern it wasn’t as bad as initially thought and all current Flair pilots keep their jobs.
Which makes it more upsetting that the FOs who were counting on quick upgrades, may be waiting longer than they planned when agreeing to the contract.

It seems every option option on the menu in this industry is a shit sandwich

[Arnie Pye]

At this point, any Flair colleagues will be welcome with open arms at Porter should worst come to worst.

I will also take a minute to thank you for your support. Whether I, or any of my colleagues end up there, we all appreciate everyone pulling together to help each other get into the next job with as little impact as possible.

[accountant]

It seems every option option on the menu in this industry is a shit sandwich

Would you like fries with that?

[BE02 Driver]

/// ULCC’s work if you followed the method used in the USA. They subsidize the price of a ticket with cargo contracts that make up the bulk of their revenue.


ULCC's in the US don't carry cargo, at least the two largest ones don't (F9 and NK). The bulk of revenue are ancillary charges. As has been mentioned, the US invests in Airport infrastructure and uses aviation as a economic driver, Canada, is Canada, It's screwed, mostly by the negative effects of higher than appropriate taxation and fiscal mismanagement. A good portion of the blame lays at the feet of JT, but I agree not all of it. It's taken generations to suck that much tax out of the public.

[schnitzel2k3]

Don't forget to Supersize it.

Our industry lends to such an unwelcome response to competition that the likelyhood of the very visible gains in the U.S would never transpire here.

Fingers crossed Flair steadies their feet after that right hook of a move.

[dumbbell daddy]

Doesn't matter. Being "Boeing qualified" doesn't mean you'll be flying a Boeing at AC. Boeing, RJ, Embraer, it's all the same. An ex Flair guy may end up right seat on an A220 and a Porter guy from the Q400 on the 777.

Yes it does matter. I worked at AC and subsequently resigned during COVID. In PIT they can force you on any piece of equipment. If you have Boeing or Airbus time they can force you on the wide bodies. You will also loose your WB FO course right. No offence but the VPFO MS said it himself. He doesn't like a new hire Dash pilot sitting right seat in a 777 going across the pond.

Cool thanks for the info. When you say "Doesn't like a new hire Dash pilot sitting right seat in a 777 going across the pond", does that mean he doesn't like it but it's still possible, or it's not alowed? What managers like and what's legal (CARs and Union rules, etc) are two different things. I'm not offended at all. This is all good info. I care for facts, not "fuzzy warm feelings"

Sorry if I came across almost condescending. Air Canada management can almost do whatever they want with you out of PIT class. I think in 2019, my class was one of the last one's before guys with considerable Boeing /Airbus time were getting forced right out of PIT onto the 777/787/330. Which sucks, because you loose a valuable course right and it's a shitty position to be junior in...well for most people. Also MS said in our PIT that he was handcuffed by the current Jazz agreement and was going to give preferential treatment to guys applying with Boeing/Airbus time.

[Ex DC10 Driver]

https://weeklyvoice.com/flair-airlines- ... av-canada/
Look like more bad news today

[DanWEC]

https://weeklyvoice.com/flair-airlines- ... av-canada/
Look like more bad news today

And we complain about our domestic new report accuracy....

[dhc2pilot]

https://weeklyvoice.com/flair-airlines- ... av-canada/



More seized aircraft. Sorry folks. Not looking good.

[JakeLRS]

https://weeklyvoice.com/flair-airlines- ... av-canada/
Look like more bad news today

This article is inaccurate and the source is questionable. No source indicates there are unpaid Nav-Canada fees.

[JakeLRS]

In other news, it looks like Flair has contracted OWG to cover some of their flying?

C-FHNM is doing some operations out of YKF today under Flairs flight number.

If they are having monkey issues, no way can they afford an expensive charter...

[cdnavater]

https://weeklyvoice.com/flair-airlines- ... av-canada/
Look like more bad news today

This article is inaccurate and the source is questionable. No source indicates there are unpaid Nav-Canada fees.

What part is inaccurate?
NAV Canada force another LCC to close in the past and is usually one of the dominos to fall, the fueler’s are also saying cash on the dash, are they not?
If it turns out to be true, bankruptcy petition this week is my prediction

[DanWEC]

This article is a just a wildly inaccurate telephone game version out of India regarding the 4 seizures. C'mon.

[JakeLRS]

Flair Airlines, a Canadian ultra-low-cost carrier, has had some of its planes seized by the Canadian government due to unpaid fees owed to Nav Canada, the country’s air navigation service provider. The exact number of planes seized is unknown, but it’s believed to be at least three.

Flair's planes were seized by the lessors, not the government
Its been clear flair made late payments to the lessors, this "news" article mentions nothing about lessors, only NavCanada which no dependable source has made clear.
Its clear that four planes were seized.

If the Globe, Global News, or Nav Canada were to mention anything about unpaid NavCanada fees, then we can talk.

[fixnfly]

https://weeklyvoice.com/flair-airlines- ... av-canada/



More seized aircraft. Sorry folks. Not looking good.

Yea I really get the feeling that news article is spreading false info and trying to incite panic. Like another poster mentioned, there has been no news of navcanada seizing planes and until a major Canadian news outlet reports on it, I'd take this article with a grain of salt.

[cdnavater]

In other news, it looks like Flair has contracted OWG to cover some of their flying?

C-FHNM is doing some operations out of YKF today under Flairs flight number.

If they are having monkey issues, no way can they afford an expensive charter...

Not sure I would equate a charter to being flush with cash!
Reasonable to assume they asked for payment up front and I’m sure they have a revolving credit facility for day to day operations.
It’s also reasonable to assume they are doing this because of the very bad press the last few days about people’s entire March break trip being ruined, honestly offering to rebook someone on the 25 of March as opposed to spring break, seems quite disconnected!

[cdnavater]

Flair Airlines, a Canadian ultra-low-cost carrier, has had some of its planes seized by the Canadian government due to unpaid fees owed to Nav Canada, the country’s air navigation service provider. The exact number of planes seized is unknown, but it’s believed to be at least three.

Flair's planes were seized by the lessors, not the government
Its been clear flair made late payments to the lessors, this "news" article mentions nothing about lessors, only NavCanada which no dependable source has made clear.
Its clear that four planes were seized.

If the Globe, Global News, or Nav Canada were to mention anything about unpaid NavCanada fees, then we can talk.

Well, that is quite irresponsible, oddly no other source mentions NAV Canada, so if no other aircraft have been seized then why would this source specifically mention NAV Canada?

[Sharklasers]

Article about NavCanada is gone, if I had to guess I’d say the writer read that globe article about the fall of Jetsgo and got confused. At 1:30 est Flair has 6 aircraft airborne

[flyinhigh]

If a South Asian news network is reliable and up to date on Canadian aviation, than I’ve clearly been living under a rock.

[pelmet]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... 2d65&ei=17

[JakeLRS]

More curious to see what the leaser will do with the four aircraft they seized