**** wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:15 pm
After witnessing WestJet implode this weekend with no return to normal in sight I would be putting together an offer to AC pilots to prevent the same. They won't though because their egos will tell them they're different and they can outsmart the union when those silly WestJet execs couldn't.
AC looking at a 50%+ increase in pilot cost. The only negotiable piece is whether it happens on day 1 or over a term.
If mngmnt sees it different then prepare for a strike.
hithere wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:27 am
This from American in ch-aviation news:
“We've paused new pilot hire class dates for the remainder of the year as part of the ongoing evaluation of our commercial and talent needs," American Airlines told the impacted pilots. "We expect to make decisions about pilot class dates for the first quarter of 2025 later this year and will provide you with an update as soon as possible."
American Airlines employs over 15,000 pilots and was actively hiring until relatively recently to overcome post-pandemic pilot shortages. However, higher labour costs, inflation, and aircraft delivery delays are reportedly impacting the operations and bottom lines of American and other US carriers.”
In Canada we are generally 1-2 years behind what happens in the USA. I think the AC pilots will have their new deal long before any slowdown from south of the border takes effect here
From what I’ve been hearing from a buddy at AA it’s more an aircraft availability issue more than a slowdown. Narrow body delivery delays from both Boeing and Airbus are the reason for the new hire pause.
Yup to go with the chicken little "sky is falling" mentality is dumb... You are correct, United had to pause hiring for the same reason, and they've now resumed. We have a plane shortage which means we have no place to hire pilots into right how... It'll sort out eventually.
The increase in Canadian leisure travel may moderate in 2024 as economic growth stagnates, reflecting the prospects of a more moderate GDP outlook, a challenged balance sheet for Canadian consumers, and the effect of higher airline ticket prices in recent years due to inflation. Canadian households are struggling with large debt, rising mortgage costs, and declining disposable income. Past rate hikes are expected to continue to hamper consumer spending, including potential spending on air travel. Passenger travel demand for Canadian airlines is expected to increase 2.9 percent in 2024 and 5.9 percent in 2025, representing roughly three times the expected GDP growth, yet still below prepandemic levels.
ALPAisAwesome wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:04 am
The increase in Canadian leisure travel may moderate in 2024 as economic growth stagnates, reflecting the prospects of a more moderate GDP outlook, a challenged balance sheet for Canadian consumers, and the effect of higher airline ticket prices in recent years due to inflation. Canadian households are struggling with large debt, rising mortgage costs, and declining disposable income. Past rate hikes are expected to continue to hamper consumer spending, including potential spending on air travel. Passenger travel demand for Canadian airlines is expected to increase 2.9 percent in 2024 and 5.9 percent in 2025, representing roughly three times the expected GDP growth, yet still below prepandemic levels.
So demand will continue to increase. Meanwhile, AC doesn't have enough aircraft to meet the current demand as it is. Loads are as strong as they've ever been. There's nothing to see here.
ALPAisAwesome wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:04 am
The increase in Canadian leisure travel may moderate in 2024 as economic growth stagnates, reflecting the prospects of a more moderate GDP outlook, a challenged balance sheet for Canadian consumers, and the effect of higher airline ticket prices in recent years due to inflation. Canadian households are struggling with large debt, rising mortgage costs, and declining disposable income. Past rate hikes are expected to continue to hamper consumer spending, including potential spending on air travel. Passenger travel demand for Canadian airlines is expected to increase 2.9 percent in 2024 and 5.9 percent in 2025, representing roughly three times the expected GDP growth, yet still below prepandemic levels.
Despite your demoralization my resolve remains steadfast.
ALPAisAwesome wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:04 am
The increase in Canadian leisure travel may moderate in 2024 as economic growth stagnates, reflecting the prospects of a more moderate GDP outlook, a challenged balance sheet for Canadian consumers, and the effect of higher airline ticket prices in recent years due to inflation. Canadian households are struggling with large debt, rising mortgage costs, and declining disposable income. Past rate hikes are expected to continue to hamper consumer spending, including potential spending on air travel. Passenger travel demand for Canadian airlines is expected to increase 2.9 percent in 2024 and 5.9 percent in 2025, representing roughly three times the expected GDP growth, yet still below prepandemic levels.
So demand will continue to increase. Meanwhile, AC doesn't have enough aircraft to meet the current demand as it is. Loads are as strong as they've ever been. There's nothing to see here.
yup, we've seen this narrative on here for what 2 yrs now... sky hasn't fallen yet; some people are addicted to drama...
ALPAisAwesome wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:04 am
The increase in Canadian leisure travel may moderate in 2024 as economic growth stagnates, reflecting the prospects of a more moderate GDP outlook, a challenged balance sheet for Canadian consumers, and the effect of higher airline ticket prices in recent years due to inflation. Canadian households are struggling with large debt, rising mortgage costs, and declining disposable income. Past rate hikes are expected to continue to hamper consumer spending, including potential spending on air travel. Passenger travel demand for Canadian airlines is expected to increase 2.9 percent in 2024 and 5.9 percent in 2025, representing roughly three times the expected GDP growth, yet still below prepandemic levels.
So demand will continue to increase. Meanwhile, AC doesn't have enough aircraft to meet the current demand as it is. Loads are as strong as they've ever been. There's nothing to see here.
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:16 am
Probably a combination of winter season (like the article states) and a lack of pilots at Jazz.
Definitely a lack of pilots at Jazz. But winter is ‘low season’ for block hours operated by Express.
AC operates on a need-for-feed basis in North America. Feed from secondary cities into the hubs for overseas revenue. If it isn’t AC Express, then it will likely by United or United Express.
Air Canada picks up 8 new Max 8 jets. "...the deal comes at a time when travel demand has remained robust across both domestic and international routes."
ALPAisAwesome wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:02 am
Wasn't trying to be demoralizing or even offer an opinion. My quote was from the ALPA magazine - Air Line Pilot
Ok, thank you for the kind information. Maybe try the global pandemic angle too. That was scary.
Passenger travel demand for Canadian airlines is expected to increase 2.9 percent in 2024 and 5.9 percent in 2025
That's the important bit. AC is getting more 737s because they can get them. This industry has a shortage of planes and pilots.
A shortage of pilots means fly bigger planes. And that helped temporarily until the 737 and 787 QC issues and now the P&W GTF issues all created a plane shortage too.
Sure growth might be only 2.9%, but that's limited by the supply side. Demand is higher than supply.
seriousflyer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:28 am
WJ never directly refrenced another airline in a negative tone, that's not Unity.
Air Canada is trying to anchor AC pilots to WJ pilot wages. They have repeatedly expressed that they believe the correct comparator for AC pilots is within the Canadian border and is WJ.
This was simply in response to Air Canada’s ongoing attempt to anchor us well below our pre bankruptcy wages.
AC is saying you can’t have more than WJ. AC pilots saying. No we are not WJ. We want our pre bankruptcy WAWCON back.
Instead of focusing so much on what Air Canada IS NOT (WestJet?), why not focus on what IT IS and draw comparisons there (Delta, United, American, BA, NASA, whatever!)?!
cloak wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:57 pm
Instead of focusing so much on what Air Canada IS NOT (WestJet?), why not focus on what IT IS and draw comparisons there (Delta, United, American, BA, NASA, whatever!)?!
The specific comparator of WestJet needed to be addressed because it is the specific comparator that management is using to set AC pilot wages.
The comparator management uses to set their own wages is US legacy carriers.
Jean-Pierre wrote: ↑Sun Jul 07, 2024 7:29 am
The specific comparator of WestJet needed to be addressed because it is the specific comparator that management is using to set AC pilot wages.
The comparator management uses to set their own wages is US legacy carriers.
I have nothing to add, this just needed to be posted again.
cloak wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:57 pm
Instead of focusing so much on what Air Canada IS NOT (WestJet?), why not focus on what IT IS and draw comparisons there (Delta, United, American, BA, NASA, whatever!)?!
The specific comparator of WestJet needed to be addressed because it is the specific comparator that management is using to set AC pilot wages.
The comparator management uses to set their own wages is US legacy carriers.
During WJ negotiations our executives rebutted that this is because CEOs can freely go and work in the US whereas pilots are limited by visa issues and so cannot. Hence only using Canadian comparators.
Either way, if there’s anything our AMEs have just highlighted it’s f*ck their excuses and be prepared to shut things down for a few days to give them some clarity.
cloak wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:57 pm
Instead of focusing so much on what Air Canada IS NOT (WestJet?), why not focus on what IT IS and draw comparisons there (Delta, United, American, BA, NASA, whatever!)?!
The specific comparator of WestJet needed to be addressed because it is the specific comparator that management is using to set AC pilot wages.
The comparator management uses to set their own wages is US legacy carriers.
During WJ negotiations our executives rebutted that this is because CEOs can freely go and work in the US whereas pilots are limited by visa issues and so cannot. Hence only using Canadian comparators.
Either way, if there’s anything our AMEs have just highlighted it’s f*ck their excuses and be prepared to shut things down for a few days to give them some clarity.
YET... historically AC's wages were tied to the US legacy carriers until post 2003 bankruptcy. The floor in negotiations is merely return to the status quo and regain losses over the past 20 years. Arguably not even technically a raise at that point...
cloak wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:57 pm
Instead of focusing so much on what Air Canada IS NOT (WestJet?), why not focus on what IT IS and draw comparisons there (Delta, United, American, BA, NASA, whatever!)?!
The specific comparator of WestJet needed to be addressed because it is the specific comparator that management is using to set AC pilot wages.
The comparator management uses to set their own wages is US legacy carriers.
During WJ negotiations our executives rebutted that this is because CEOs can freely go and work in the US whereas pilots are limited by visa issues and so cannot. Hence only using Canadian comparators.
Either way, if there’s anything our AMEs have just highlighted it’s f*ck their excuses and be prepared to shut things down for a few days to give them some clarity.
Another version of you are just a Canadian. AC management uses it too.
The risk of UFO collisions seems to be on the rise as well. Let's just take the first offer.
