Strike vote

[khedrei]

I'm curious how they explain this one. Rail service ruled not essential by CIRB. Minister of labour says he won't intervene in the case of strike or lockout. Strike and lockout happens. Minister asked the same CIRB to legislate them back to work. And they do. So if they aren't essential, how is this explained.

Am I missing something?

[digits_]

I'm curious how they explain this one. Rail service ruled not essential by CIRB. Minister of labour says he won't intervene in the case of strike or lockout. Strike and lockout happens. Minister asked the same CIRB to legislate them back to work. And they do. So if they aren't essential, how is this explained.

Am I missing something?

I am also wondering how this situation is different from the WJ AME situation.


There's an easy fix. Just strike. @#$!'m. That's (unfortunately) the only way employee rights will improve in the current political landscape. If the union follows the whole process to legally strike, and then the government swoops in and changes the rules, they have to draw a line in the sand.

[goingnowherefast]

Wasn't it the Ontario teachers who stayed on strike after being ordered back to work? 2022, if I'm remembering correctly.

[JustaCanadian]

I'm curious how they explain this one. Rail service ruled not essential by CIRB. Minister of labour says he won't intervene in the case of strike or lockout. Strike and lockout happens. Minister asked the same CIRB to legislate them back to work. And they do. So if they aren't essential, how is this explained.

Am I missing something?

It's called liberal corruption. Who is surprised? I laugh everytime someone tells me they can't vote conservative because only the liberals will protect worker rights.

The same people who made your life so expensive with frivolous spending will now force arbitration where they can assure you will get a subpar contract.

[BaldChewbacca]

Wasn't it the Ontario teachers who stayed on strike after being ordered back to work? 2022, if I'm remembering correctly.

That's what I remember as well. They continued to strike after being (illegally) ordered back to work. I'm glad they had the balls to do it.

I'm an outsider looking in here (I'm a captain at a different airline), but frankly, if you guys and gals are ordered back to work just like the rail works just were, you need to stay united and tell them to @#$! off. Strike anyway. In the end, that's what a united work force is all about. You need to stick up for yourselves, what is right, and refuse to be bullied.

[throwawaycorporate]

Wasn't it the Ontario teachers who stayed on strike after being ordered back to work? 2022, if I'm remembering correctly.

Not teachers, it was the other, much lower paid education workers in Ontario.

Doug Ford tabled a bill threatening to fine each worker $4000/day they illegally strike and $500,000 to the union. They did this using the "notwithstanding" clause. To make this even more insane, the government was not offering arbitration, rather just to impose a collective agreement on them. The heaviest hammer possible. Immediately many other unions spoke up in solidarity and the government backtracked, apologized and made it as if the bill never existed in the first place. In this case it was Doug Ford and his government disregarding the charter and using legislation to end labour action. This is the type of action that Singh says he is against.

With the rail workers, the minister referred the matter to the CIRB, which is an organization arms reach away from the government. When the previous minister did a similar move with the WestJet mechanics, the CIRB ordered arbitration, but also reaffirmed their right to strike.

The rail case is strange because on Aug 9, the CIRB ruled "a work stoppage on Canadian National (CN) and Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC) would not cause an immediate threat to public health and safety." and that "Commodities transported on Canadian rails are not considered essential services because 'reasonable alternatives' exist through long-haul trucking."

Now Aug 24 the CIRB has ruled that no further labour stoppage, including a lockout or strike, can occur during the arbitration process. However, this is only according to the news sites, I can not find the exact decision on the CIRB source.

[rookiepilot]

I'm curious how they explain this one. Rail service ruled not essential by CIRB. Minister of labour says he won't intervene in the case of strike or lockout. Strike and lockout happens. Minister asked the same CIRB to legislate them back to work. And they do. So if they aren't essential, how is this explained.

Am I missing something?

A) Uh, bags of cash,

B) extreme coercion,

C) combination of A and B.

[rookiepilot]

The federal labour board has ordered thousands of rail employees back to work after a bitter contract dispute shut down the country's two major railways.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cirb-d ... -1.7304194

As a man for the workers, Jagmeet Singh needs to immediately move for a motion of non-confidence with the conservatives and pressure the Liberals to take a step back. This is unacceptable.

You mean — Mr Rolex? Mr parties with the elite?

[BTD]

Wasn't it the Ontario teachers who stayed on strike after being ordered back to work? 2022, if I'm remembering correctly.

Not teachers, it was the other, much lower paid education workers in Ontario.

Doug Ford tabled a bill threatening to fine each worker $4000/day they illegally strike and $500,000 to the union. They did this using the "notwithstanding" clause. To make this even more insane, the government was not offering arbitration, rather just to impose a collective agreement on them. The heaviest hammer possible. Immediately many other unions spoke up in solidarity and the government backtracked, apologized and made it as if the bill never existed in the first place. In this case it was Doug Ford and his government disregarding the charter and using legislation to end labour action. This is the type of action that Singh says he is against.

With the rail workers, the minister referred the matter to the CIRB, which is an organization arms reach away from the government. When the previous minister did a similar move with the WestJet mechanics, the CIRB ordered arbitration, but also reaffirmed their right to strike.

The rail case is strange because on Aug 9, the CIRB ruled "a work stoppage on Canadian National (CN) and Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC) would not cause an immediate threat to public health and safety." and that "Commodities transported on Canadian rails are not considered essential services because 'reasonable alternatives' exist through long-haul trucking."

Now Aug 24 the CIRB has ruled that no further labour stoppage, including a lockout or strike, can occur during the arbitration process. However, this is only according to the news sites, I can not find the exact decision on the CIRB source.

LD5437_NB1566.pdf

(302.61 KiB) Downloaded 105 times

[throwawaycorporate]

LD5437_NB1566.pdf

Thanks! Am I understanding this correctly?

Is it basically the board saying that they do not have the authority to review the ministers directions or even to assess their validity. I must be missing something because as far as I knew, the CIRB's entire purpose was to be a check and balance.

What precedent does this set?

[hithere]

And the board clearly felt that they had that authority during the WestJet Mechanics strike. Why the change of heart now?

[BTD]

In the WestJet mechanics situation, the minister never said that the board should also put an end to the work stoppage. Everyone just assumed. So the board ruled only on what the minister said. That was a big part of the Ooops.

[CaptDukeNukem]

LD5437_NB1566.pdf

Thanks! Am I understanding this correctly?

Is it basically the board saying that they do not have the authority to review the ministers directions or even to assess their validity. I must be missing something because as far as I knew, the CIRB's entire purpose was to be a check and balance.

What precedent does this set?

The minister (with less than two months of experience in his role) should know better. This is very problematic for all levels of government. I expect the same when air Canada goes on strike

[altiplano]

Wow. Fucking cowards and hypocrites in the CIRB.

I don't believe this passes through court in the Government's favour.

If it does you can expect a general strike.

This is a complete violation of collective bargaining rights and sets labour back indefinitely. It encourages bad behaviour and politics to reign.

That said, this is this situation, and I believe it actually bodes well for ACA timing as the government burns it's political capital and needs redemption, the same arguments don't exist at ACA, and everyone knows ACA pilots got a rough ride from government last time and are long overdue.

[Daniel Cooper]

They dropped a little hint about Federal Court being able to review ministerial directions. This is headed there for sure.

[pelmet]

So there you have it boys. After hearing multiple Do Not Vote Conservative because they order striking/locked out workers back to work, you can see that the libs do it too. So, you can now vote conservative in the next election instead of being willing to accept the destructive liberal/NDP policies thinking it would help your negotiations.

Works well for bureaucrats that you subsidize but not so well for others.

[Flyboy736]

So there you have it boys. After hearing multiple Do Not Vote Conservative because they order striking/locked out workers back to work, you can see that the libs do it too. So, you can now vote conservative in the next election instead of being willing to accept the destructive liberal/NDP policies thinking it would help your negotiations.

Works well for bureaucrats that you subsidize but not so well for others.

Uh huh and the conservatives wouldn't have done that in a heart beat... Oh wait they already pulled similar ridiculousness during the Harper era...

If anything only the NDP is standing up for the unionized. Or you can always spoil your ballet and send a message that way.

[digits_]

They dropped a little hint about Federal Court being able to review ministerial directions. This is headed there for sure.

How long would that take? Would it undo any agreements forced under binding arbitration?

[rudder]

They dropped a little hint about Federal Court being able to review ministerial directions. This is headed there for sure.

Under 107, the Minister does not have the authority to end a strike. The Minister lacks jurisdiction. The authority is solely to refer the matter to the CIRB. The CIRB used an entirely circular argument to validate supporting the Ministers order.

The only power the Minister has to end a strike is legislation. That does not (currently) exist in the case of the railway dispute.

[RippleRock]

Wow. Fucking cowards and hypocrites in the CIRB.

I don't believe this passes through court in the Government's favour.

If it does you can expect a general strike.

This is a complete violation of collective bargaining rights and sets labour back indefinitely. It encourages bad behaviour and politics to reign.

That said, this is this situation, and I believe it actually bodes well for ACA timing as the government burns it's political capital and needs redemption, the same arguments don't exist at ACA, and everyone knows ACA pilots got a rough ride from government last time and are long overdue.

Agreed.

The last time the government was involved, they set us back decades, and they know it. It's reflected plainly in our current "shit tickets" FOS based contract. If arbitration is even "hinted at" this September, ALPA should expose the one sided hypocricy of what FOS is all about. Full media blitz on how our careers were permanently and fundamentally altered for the worse.

There is NO WAY we should stand for that form of meddling ever again.

It's time to right the ship, and oppose any "political posturing" BS with every legal channel available. They need to follow the law as written.


See you all in YYZ on the 27th. Hoping for a great turnout.

Hold the Line

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I would be happy to exercise my Charter right to strike in opposition to any illegal order by the Minister or CIRB. Give me the chance please, ALPA!

[altiplano]

Agreed.

The last time the government was involved, they set us back decades, and they know it. It's reflected plainly in our current "shit tickets" FOS based contract. If arbitration is even "hinted at" this September, ALPA should expose the one sided hypocricy of what FOS is all about. Full media blitz on how our careers were permanently and fundamentally altered for the worse.

There is NO WAY we should stand for that form of meddling ever again.

It's time to right the ship, and oppose any "political posturing" BS with every legal channel available. They need to follow the law as written.


See you all in YYZ on the 27th. Hoping for a great turnout.

Hold the Line

When the time comes, we need to fight with every channel available - legal or not.

I won't abide by their changing rules and unjust declarations. Bad laws are meant to be broken.

They can't use threats and duress to make us pilot those airplanes.

If we go out, I'm not coming back until we're in the position to ratify a freely negotiated World Class Contract.

ALPA needs to make it clear, there is nothing the CIRB or Labour Minister or House can do that will prevent us from exercising our Supreme Court affirmed CHARTER RIGHT to striking and collective bargaining free from external interference.

Hold the line indeed.

[sportingrifle]

The CIRB certainly knew that their ruling was inconsistent with an earlier determination and on thin legal ice. And this issue is 3rd rail for them, they are going to get fried whatever decision they make. And they knew that the rail workers will appeal this into a courtroom.
I see the CIRB order as a deliberate attempt to kick the whole mess into court so whatever the outcome, the CIRB can say “it wasn’t us.” Just like by kicking it to the CIRB the Minister could say “wasn’t me, it’s all arms length.”

[Dry Guy]

It'd be nice to hear from ALPA about what our plan is if we are in the exact same situation the railworkers are in. Before I go stand on the sidewalk holding a sign like goofy when we are going to arbitration anyway.

[BTD]

It'd be nice to hear from ALPA about what our plan is if we are in the exact same situation the railworkers are in. Before I go stand on the sidewalk holding a sign like goofy when we are going to arbitration anyway.

With respect.

Get out there. It sucks… good. Don’t let a little crosswind blow us off course.

I have more or less 1 day off in the latter 3rd of the month. The 27th. I’ll be there. The rail situation makes me want to go more.

Toughen up everyone. We knew it was going to suck.