"Full Load" Checkout

[Freddy_Francis]

Speaking of boosting....props to me for creating such a thread that seriously I did not think would go four pages. Then again if you cut out Cat Driver and BPF battle royal in the making I don't think it would go for so long...but then what the hell would I have to read? Im glad to see a little fire however as its not just me whose horrified by such a stupid scam. Someone mentioned you needed a check out for short strips or something? How did you get a license without proving on your flight test that you were capable of short/soft field landings?

Whatever...this was and is a great thread thanks to all the contributors!

[Cat Driver]

Speaking of boosting....props to me for creating such a thread that seriously I did not think would go four pages. Then again if you cut out Cat Driver and BPF battle royal in the making I don't think it would go for so long...but then what the hell would I have to read?

For sure it is great entertainment and if you really follow it you can learn from it.

Seems I tend to piss off some of Canada's finest CFI's with some of my ideas on teaching flying........

..........but like everyone else here I also get more insight into where some of these experts are coming from, a recent example was learning that one of my admirers has trained two pilots from zero to the PPL on tail wheel airplanes.

I am at a loss to compare numbers with said admirer as we only had tail wheel airplanes when I first became a CFI and it never occurred to me to keep track of how many PPL's I completed on tail wheel airplanes.

Oh well, if nothing else this is great entertainment.

When the summer is over and I put my sail boat away for the season I'm going to take a course in interpersonal skills.

That will change their minds about me.....can you imagine a teacher of flying with fifty years experience teaching and a certificate of excellence in interpersonal skills?


Fu.k I'd be unbeatable.

[Carrier]

Quote: "I did my PPL on a part time basis during 2002-2003 in YHM. It was at the time that WJ used YHM as their base. I could not tell you how many hours of the 62 at which I passed the exam were spent in taxing, hold short this and that, orbit please... WJ inboud and the list goes on.
However doing it in YHM the price of some extra hours, exposed me to the control zone environment, which I am thankful for.
How many PPL are earned at smaller fields in less than 60 hours today, yet the young holders are terrified to entering a control zone? or take a trip by CN twr?"

Great post by joco!
I did my PPL in South Africa in the mid seventies. I deliberately chose to do it with a school at Rand Airport because at that time Rand was the busiest airport in Africa. I thought if I could fly comfortably there in all that traffic - several training establishments, bizjets, Comair's DC3s, charters and itinerants visiting all the aviation businesses at the airport - I would be able to fly anywhere. On my first solo on Rwy 36 (now 35) I was called by the tower as I was turning on to crosswind and advised to look out for an aircraft just joining downwind from the north, then on base they called again and asked me to do a 360 to the right as there was a Learjet coming straight in from the south, which I had a great view of as we passed. I had no problem as this was the environment that I was already used to. There was no special treatment for trainers or for a first solo. You just had to fit in with the seemingly non-stop traffic. I am very grateful to Avex Air and my instructors there, particularly Roger Tilbury who did all the initial work. Yes, at Rand it did cost me extra in both money and time in waiting for other traffic but it was well worth it. I have from time to time observed the discomfort in a busy environment of those who learnt in less time at a rural airfield that was little more than a tarmac strip down the centre of a farmer's field with sod all other traffic.
By the way, Rand Airport is at 5,483'asl and in a warm climate so what was that about a check-out for hot and high?

[Cat Driver]

By the way, Rand Airport is at 5,483'asl and in a warm climate so what was that about a check-out for hot and high?

You forgot to mention the runways are as narrow as most taxiways in Canada.

But Lanseria is also a good airport to fly out of.

[albertdesalvo]

a recent example was learning that one of my admirers has trained two pilots from zero to the PPL on tail wheel airplanes.

You've frequently mocked the current crop of instructors for being unable to fly/instruct taildraggers, yet here is one of them who can and you're mocking him too. What's it take to please you, anyway?

[2R]

And it used to be 30.

During the middle ages, we're talking now.



Oh come on, take a joke people!

This full load subject would be more fun if it were actually about full loads, and how/where to unload it.

ditto

[Doc]

Wow. Is this still going on? The guy trained TWO pilots in a tail wheel airplane. And? So what? Is this supposed to be some "magic" trick? There are some good instructors out there. Cat has never said there aren't. There are some bad ones. And Cat HAS said there were. I've had guys out of the flight "colleges" who can't handle a cross wind. Some "colleges" curtail flying in a cross wind over five knots. Little wonder we get that impression?
And, I'm outta here.

[Cat Driver]

You've frequently mocked the current crop of instructors for being unable to fly/instruct taildraggers, yet here is one of them who can and you're mocking him too. What's it take to please you, anyway?

Albert.....that particular poster is not at all shy about criticizing my opinions as evident by his posts.....so why shouldn't I comment on his posts?

The bottom line is there is a misperception that I am anti instructor.....nothing could be further from the truth because I would then be anti myself.

[Big Pistons Forever]

You've frequently mocked the current crop of instructors for being unable to fly/instruct taildraggers, yet here is one of them who can and you're mocking him too. What's it take to please you, anyway?

Albert.....that particular poster is not at all shy about criticizing my opinions as evident by his posts.....so why shouldn't I comment on his posts?

The bottom line is there is a misperception that I am anti instructor.....nothing could be further from the truth because I would then be anti myself.

Cat Driver

I know I shouldn`t answer this but I can`t help myself. I have made a point of never in criticizing your opinions. What I have criticized is your comments which consistantly disparage pilots who hold flight instructor ratings especially low time ones.

I think this hs gone on long enough. I think everyone knows how I feel and I do see ant further value in beating this dead horse. Therefore to what I am sure is the great relief of the general AvCanada audience, I do not intend to make any further posts commenting on anything Cat Driver says.

[albertdesalvo]

The bottom line is there is a misperception that I am anti instructor.....

I don't think many people hold that opinion. To me it just looks like a couple of guys got frustrated and challenged you to say something positive about the industry for a change. So to get back to the guy who's trained a couple of PPLs on taildraggers, would it not be fair to say that this demonstrates his ability is above that of the average instructor today? And if this is so, isn't mocking him for it somewhat unseemly? This is my point, nothing more. Credit where credit is due. A comparison to the old days when everyone trained on draggers really isn't valid. Anyway, we'll move on, ol' Seabiscuit is getting sore from all the flogging.

[Cat Driver]

Like I have said, just give me some slack here guys because when the summer is over I may get some interpersonal skills upgrading so I won't be such a prick here in this sandbox.

ONCE AGAIN:

It is my personal opinion that the training industry needs a lot of improving...and the best people to help bring that about is the chief flying instructors.

The low time instructors are victims of a system that has a wide level of quality.

[iflyforpie]

Someone mentioned you needed a check out for short strips or something? How did you get a license without proving on your flight test that you were capable of short/soft field landings?

Doing a short/soft field on a 7300x200 paved runway is a bit different than a 2000x75 grass or gravel strip. Unfortunately this is what I was taught for my PPL at a college flight school. I was actually surprised that we did our soft fields on pavement.

I went to a mom and pop place for my CPL and my instructors were amazed that I had never landed on a dirt/grass strip or landed within a specific distance (like land on the numbers and get it stopped before the 1000 footers).

Landing on actual soft fields and within required distances should be a prerequisite for the PPL. If you can't get a 100 Series Cessna stopped within 1000 feet of the threshold there is a problem.

[Freddy_Francis]

Doing a short/soft field on a 7300x200 paved runway is a bit different than a 2000x75 grass or gravel strip. Unfortunately this is what I was taught for my PPL at a college flight school. I was actually surprised that we did our soft fields on pavement.

I went to a mom and pop place for my CPL and my instructors were amazed that I had never landed on a dirt/grass strip or landed within a specific distance (like land on the numbers and get it stopped before the 1000 footers).

Landing on actual soft fields and within required distances should be a prerequisite for the PPL. If you can't get a 100 Series Cessna stopped within 1000 feet of the threshold there is a problem.

I agree 100%, I believe it was the way I said it which was incorrect. My instructor (thats right Cat another low time building idiot ) Took me several times to a grass strip/dirt strip. I don't think it's right if your never taken to one to learn this portion of training...how else do you actually learn? Cat I 100% agree with you on this training industry needs major improvements.

[joco]

Peninsulair in YHM does teach and require you to land in a prescribed distance. I had to do it on the flight test as well. Landed on rwy 30 in between the rwy numbers and the piano keys, and had to stop in approx 500 feet. I tought that a brake line will burts open It musta'been close enough, because I passed the exam.
Tada.

[albertdesalvo]

so I won't be such a prick here in this sandbox.

If they were gonna run you outa this sandbox, they would have done it by now. You remind me a lot of a taildragging Texan I know from another forum. Insufferable but lovable at the same time.

[Cat Driver]

There sure is a lot of misquoting what I say here.

I do not recall ever calling new flight instructors " idiots " I have on many occasions called the people who are in charge of flight training worse than idiots for the simple reason I am at a loss for better words to describe them.

So if someone can copy a post where I have called new instructors " idiots " I will quickly apologize to the new instructors as a group.

[lilfssister]

I think what a lot of you are missing is that Cat is not anti-instructor,rather that he is anti "instructor pay is crap and does not attract the long-time, high-hour instructors that would be beneficial to the ab initio student".

[Cat Driver]

Thank you lifssister, you are renewing my faith that some people are actually capable of understanding what they read.

Few realize how much time I spend in the background trying to give help to the young instructors via PM's and e-mails.

So for what ever it is worth I am not in the least concerned by those who see me as negative.

Reminds me of a joke about pilots.....

If you lock a pilot in a room with two steel balls what will you find in the morning?

.................

He has broken one and lost the other.

[lilfssister]

You know that I know that you know that I know...wait a minute that's getting confusing~

Sarcasm is lost on the internet oftentimes...

Though the Cat may appear to be dissing some, he is merely trying to MAKE YOU THINK! Learning by rote is fine in some subjects. I don't think anything to do with any aspect of aviation falls into that category. There is logic or science behind everything you have to learn in this industry (well, granted, some is CYA induced, but those usually have logic or science behind them).

[lilfssister]

Reminds me of a joke about pilots.....

If you lock a pilot in a room with two steel balls what will you find in the morning?

.................

He has broken one and lost the other.

I am scared say I don't know?

[Cat Driver]

lilfssister.....

.....if memory serves me correct TC has eight laws of learning in the preamble on how to instruct.....

.......I concentrate on " the law of logic " ( Cats law. ) when teaching flying.

I quit " instructing " in 1965 but continued to " teach " flying for the next 43 years.

[lilfssister]

Few realize how much time I spend in the background trying to give help to the young instructors via PM's and e-mails.

I hear ya!
For all my FSS rules! Pilots and ATC suck! posts, there's 20 PMs and avchat and Messenger conversations of encouragement, explanation, and facts.

[Cat Driver]

I hear ya!
For all my FSS rules! Pilots and ATC suck!

I love it when you talk dirty.