Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by I WAS Birddog »

bizjets101 wrote: After all it's not like Buttonville is busy or anything, here's a shot from 3pm today.
Image
We require a "rights and permission" request to take a snapshot of our airplane in the background...ESPECIALLY when I'm in one of them on that day. Otherwise please forward a cheque in the amount of $8000.00 (plus GST) to:

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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by bizjets101 »

Image

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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by photofly »

Popcorn, anyone? :-D
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by Gino Under »

Dear Fellow Free Trade Fans,

As industry analysts go I don't always share Mr. Aboulafias opinions or perspective and I find his April 2013 remarks regarding Porter's C series purchase somewhat odd. I'm not clear on how he became so wound up over a Canadian operator, airport and OEM or what motivated this commentary other than his consistent negativity toward the C series.

For example:
"It’s a lot like any other jet order, with the minor caveat that, if executed, it opens the gates of hell and permits Satan’s minions to wreak havoc on Earth. Thus, a new type has joined the jet order lexicon; we now have Firm, Option, and Faustian."

What??? Where'd that come from?

If Mr. Aboulafia is referring to Dr. Johann's deal with Mephistopheles I'd say he's picked a strained example. I don't think for a minute Mr. Deluce is necessarily after power but as a businessman it seems logical and reasonable that he'd be interested in the success of his airline. Unless Mr. Aboulafia is trying to be nothing more than controversial because as we all know this deal is nothing more than an every day deal here in Canada and certainly nothing surprising or out of the ordinary. Every home owner in this country is familiar with home sales and purchase agreements dependent upon or conditional upon the sale of ones present home before being committed to the purchase of another. So, why should Porter buy C series for the island if they aren't going to be allowed to operate them from there. Better yet, why not force the jet ban issue and have city council sh*t or get off the pot?

What Mr. Aboulafia conveniently failed to point out regarding Pam McConnell's comments, the Toronto City councillor whose ward is closest to the expansion, who said the announcement “demonstrates a breathtaking level of arrogance and disregard for the Toronto residents", is the positive economic impact Porter has had on those and other Toronto residents since it began operations. I understand incomplete statements like this are merely selective in trying to make a point. Sorry. I don't think it's as strong or controversial as you might expect from an 'industry analyst'.

Mr. Aboulqfia's free trade issues under the WTO are accurately pointed out for all to research. I don't have a problem with that. As a Canadian who's been around since long before NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO agreements, I for one, don't trust the Americans with any agreement involving Canada because as Canadians we always get the short end of the stick. Compare the price of ANY automobile under the Autopact or NAFTA while our dollar is at par and ask yourself why we're still paying more for the same vehicle here compared to what they pay there? Despite the Autopact or NAFTA. And it's not just cars.

I agree with Mr. Aboulafia's observations regarding C series sales. They aren't what they should be. However, i disagree with his comparing the CS100 with re-engined 60s or 80s technology competitors. This doesn't seem a reasonable comparison in my estimation. Airbus and Boeing are selling bandaid solutions to the industry and nothing more. More units sold of established airliners is a surprise to no one. Bombardier are offering a totally new clean sheet design with many improvements over A or B. Bombardier are offering the industry a 'game changer' at a time when the A380, A400 and A350 programs have practically bankrupt Airbus. At a time when the U.S. military have cost Boeing almost 2 billion in cost over run in the KC tanker program (B767) and. B747-800 program that is all but dead in the water. Now the B787 and the millions, if not billions it is likely to cost Boeing who can't be far themselves from bankruptcy. We are years away from determining whether or not those 3500 orders were or will have been worth it. We're probably just as far away from determining the level of success or failure of the C series.

Mr. Aboulafia's proclamation that the C series is a commercial failure (before the aircraft has even flown) smacks of American arrogance beyond description. Porter has probably been close to the source regarding the C series long before this recent purchase announcement and that Mr. Anselmo revelation is likely nothing more than old news. Those who know Canadian aviation know Mr. Deluce has a long history with deHavilland and Bombardier. Porter's use of Bombardier products comes as no surprise and in all likelihood they are close to the Bombardier sales team both as a customer and as a prospective C series customer. Maybe Mr. Aboulafia could ask Mr. Deluce if he is familiar with the BRJ-X? There may be more dots he could connect starting with Austin Airways or Air Ontario.

Where was Mr. Aboulafia's verbal tirade regarding Government favouritism/protectionism when our military, in support of his American troops in Afghanistan, got turfed out of the UAE when Emirates were denied further access to Canada? Our furry little spokesanimal, the beaver, didn't have much luck with the Dubai crowd, did it? Our NAFTA, NORAD, NATO trading partners were nowhere to be seen yet WE'RE protectionist? Okay.

I agree with Mr. Aboulafia's sentiments that jets meeting whatever new standards Toronto sets should also be allowed to operate there. This would also limit jets that meet the performance requirements of whatever runway length is accepted in that agreement which he may or may not see as fair.

The entrance of Embraer into the regional airline market trumpeted numerous legal battles at the WTO between Bombardier and Embraer. Jonathan P. Doh wrote a paper called The Bombardier-Embraer Dispute and its Implications for Western Hemisphere Integration.

In that document Mr. Doh writes, "Government subsidies are a pervasive problem for international trade and economic development. Subsidies distort investment decisions, generally squander scarce public resources, skew public expenditures toward unproductive uses, unfairly discriminate against efficient industries and firms, and prompt wasteful overconsumption of some products over others. Despite efforts to limit subsidies through trade and investment policy disciplines, subsidization remains a constant on the global trade policy and international business landscape.

The policy that it is acceptable for governments to match financial assistance provided by others leads to a bidding spiral. The policy by most governments that it is justifiable and necessary to “match” assistance provided by others leads to a process in which governments anticipate the next move of others. By doing so, contributes to an out-of-control spiral, as was demonstrated in the volleys between Canada and Brazil over Embraer. This race to the bottom constitutes a negative sum outcome, as governments spend precious taxpayer resources, crowd out private investment, and distort purchasing decisions. The precarious position of the global airline industry makes continued public financing likely. The weak financial condition of the major airline carriers in the post-9/11 environment suggests that private financing will be scarce as airlines carefully add new planes to their fleets.

The U.S. airline industry recorded operating losses of about $1.5 billion in 2002, and few of the major carriers are considered creditworthy customers. Hence, demand for government-sponsored financing will continue to be strong, and disputes over export financing and subsidization will likely recur.
Disputes such as the one described are likely to remain part of the international trade and investment terrain for the foreseeable future. Only through renewed momentum in trade agreements and negotiations generally, and greater willingness by countries to make painful commitments in subsidies and countervailing agreement in particular, is the region likely to reduce the number and intensity of disputes and disagreements over the role of government financing in industrial development and export promotion

One category of subsidy—export financing through export credit agencies (ECAs) to civilian aircraft companies—has generally fallen outside the purview of regional and global trade and investment agreements. This may be because aircraft companies are often involved in “dual-use” products that can be sold for both civilian and defense aerospace applications, creating a potentially legitimate national security justification for their exclusion from agreements that would otherwise impose limits on state support. In addition, the concentration of few firms within the industry and the “winner-take-all” aspect of contract awards invite politically motivated support by governments to ensure their national champions receive a fair share of contracts. Among the widely publicized disagreements in this area, the transatlantic dispute over subsidies to Airbus and Boeing has received considerable attention."

The success of the C series DOES NOT depend on any single order from Porter or any runway extension to Billy Bishop airport. To think otherwise is naive at best. Nor does it depend on Government funding of any description. For Porter, maybe. But the C series? No.

The USA wrote the book on protectionism. I don't think Canadians are likely to be duped by any American industry analyst who points an accusing finger at us over free trade, protectionism, the WTO, NAFTA or any other agreement we might be signatory to. And as far as what's fair, legal or illegal goes, whether it's our Government or a company like Bombardier, they're still entitled to their day in court whatever the accusation and Porter is certainly entitled to fight whatever battles it wishes.

No surprise there.

Gino Under :partyman:
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by I WAS Birddog »

bizjets101 wrote: Image
:lol: :lol:

Great cam. You even got a shot of the 5 o'clock shadow on my cinderblock bald ethnic head.

Damn you :wink:
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by aileron »

Very well said Gino.
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by dhc# »

Any recent developments regarding Porters plans ?
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by Valhalla »

A couple of weeks ago, the city council of Toronto voted 39-14 in favour of commissioning their own study to be voted on in July. This was the first, and in my opinion, biggest hurtle towards lengthening the runway and amending the (non medivac) jet ban to a noise level ban instead. The next city council vote is scheduled for July. Armed with the results of the results of their study, the city will vote to alter the tri-partriate agreement that governs the airport.

If the city approves, the federal government has already stated that they will also do whatever the city approves, and then it's up to the federally controlled Port Authority to also agree.

Things seem to be moving fairly quickly, so hopefully the politics will be sorted out by later this year.
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by bizjets101 »

BNN News

CS100 engines to be run early June, aircaft will be handed over to the flight test department shortly, first flight due near end of March.
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by human garbage »

justwork wrote: ....NIMBY's. I shake my head. In Vancouver you would have all the folks in Richmond complaining about YVR noise. The airport was there first, you knew about it, you bought a place there anyway, now you're complaining about it. Anyone remember the FU YVR house on final 26R?
The FU YVR guy is a complete fool. I grew up in the 'Ditch, and when that house was built there was already a plan for the North Runway in progress. He's just pissy because he didn't do the most basic of homework beforehand. Hell, 25 years before him and his creative roofing, my parents chose not to buy near there for the exact same reason. If they could figure it out back then, he has no excuse.

The NIMBY out here that takes the cake is a dude who lives across the South Arm from YVR who has mounted a campaign against the noise from the floaters. He is a retired Air Canada Captain- and therefore a complete moron if he couldn't figure out that planes make noise. Guess he never woke anyone up when he was on the job. Fool.

Count on Adam Vaughan to be leading the charge against jets at City Center. This is the genius who proposed an ammunition ban in Toronto as a solution to gun violence. Words cannot describe that level of idiocy...
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by CanadianEh »

Nice looking plane
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Re: Porter/Bombardier set to announce CS100 order . . .

Post by whodareswins »

Indeed. Can't wait to see it take to the air hopefully at the end of this month!
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