Sunwing is hiring seasonal pilots

[aerosexual]

Typically you'll hear one way or another. If you haven't been PFO'd then you're still in the running. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, there are a lot of highly qualified people looking for work right now with at least a couple of companies presently looking at furloughs.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Canjet announced layoffs this summer and these people are 737NG qualified.
Sunwing will have to hire all of them for the 737 temp positions not requiring type ratings, because if they don't, these pilots will qualify for the second ad, the one requiring 120 type rated pilots, and that will prevent Sunwing from hiring all of the 120 European pilots they expect to hire.

[aerosexual]

Canjet announced layoffs this summer and these people are 737NG qualified.
Sunwing will have to hire all of them for the 737 temp positions not requiring type ratings, because if they don't, these pilots will qualify for the second ad, the one requiring 120 type rated pilots, and that will prevent Sunwing from hiring all of the 120 European pilots they expect to hire.

No they don't. Sunwing does not have to hire anybody they don't want to. Obviously it is in Sunwing's best interest to hire as many 737 rated pilots from Canjet as possible, much like they have done previously. But they are under no obligation to hire anybody they do not see fit.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

If you are a Canadian seasonal pilot, even with a B737NG rating, you are interviewed, vetted, and can be disqualified by Sunwing for any reason. Like all airlines rightfully do. Well almost.

If you are a foreign TFW for Sunwing, none of this applies. The foreign airline sends you, period. You just have to pass the PPC when you arrive. Unless of course you are a foreign Wet-lease pilot for Sunwing, in which case you can even have previously failed the PPC as a TFW and come back as a qualified wet-lease pilot.

Sunwing will not be able to import 120 TFW 737NG pilots if there are a few dozen Canadian 737NG qualified pilot sitting around and who apply for the job. Especially Captains.

Canjet Captains: If Sunwing calls you up, make sure you tell them you are interested in the seasonal Captain positions. They reserve these for the Europeans and will find themselves in a bind if they are pressed to offer them to Canadians.

They were careful in the ad to state that the jobs are for FOs that "may be called" to act as captains. That is just lawyer talk to avoid having to state that the ad is for captains also. They WILL hire seasonal captains, they do every year. Just not seasonal Canadian captains.

They may be contractually bound with TUI and Travel Service to hire X number of foreign Captains, in addition to the Wet-Lease Captains.

[aerosexual]

If you are a Canadian seasonal pilot, even with a B737NG rating, you are interviewed, vetted, and can be disqualified by Sunwing for any reason. Like all airlines rightfully do.

So we agree, as would any reasonable person.

The rest of your post is your typical song and dance. Sunwing hired a number of Canjet pilots last year, and you can bet they will hire Canjet pilots again this year. They will surely hire as many as they possibly can. There's no point in making this more complicated than it is. You must be a peach to fly with.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The rest of your post is your typical song and dance. Sunwing hired a number of Canjet pilots last year, and you can bet they will hire Canjet pilots again this year. They will surely hire as many as they possibly can. There's no point in making this more complicated than it is. You must be a peach to fly with.

Ahh Yes, the personal insult; the last refuge of the guy that has a losing argument.

[Rogerdodger2]

Canjet announced layoffs this summer and these people are 737NG qualified.
Sunwing will have to hire all of them for the 737 temp positions not requiring type ratings, because if they don't, these pilots will qualify for the second ad, the one requiring 120 type rated pilots, and that will prevent Sunwing from hiring all of the 120 European pilots they expect to hire.

If you are a Canadian seasonal pilot, even with a B737NG rating, you are interviewed, vetted, and can be disqualified by Sunwing for any reason. Like all airlines rightfully do. Well almost.

If you are a foreign TFW for Sunwing, none of this applies. The foreign airline sends you, period. You just have to pass the PPC when you arrive. Unless of course you are a foreign Wet-lease pilot for Sunwing, in which case you can even have previously failed the PPC as a TFW and come back as a qualified wet-lease pilot.

Sunwing will not be able to import 120 TFW 737NG pilots if there are a few dozen Canadian 737NG qualified pilot sitting around and who apply for the job. Especially Captains.

Canjet Captains: If Sunwing calls you up, make sure you tell them you are interested in the seasonal Captain positions. They reserve these for the Europeans and will find themselves in a bind if they are pressed to offer them to Canadians.

They were careful in the ad to state that the jobs are for FOs that "may be called" to act as captains. That is just lawyer talk to avoid having to state that the ad is for captains also. They WILL hire seasonal captains, they do every year. Just not seasonal Canadian captains.

They may be contractually bound with TUI and Travel Service to hire X number of foreign Captains, in addition to the Wet-Lease Captains.

COMPLETE LUNACY!!!
1)By Gilles logic a complete tool box who is unsafe, shows up late, disrespectful to co workers and has a bad attitude with bad references should be hired just because he has a type rating?!
2)And should be a CAPT. Just because they were at another company?!
By that logic if I apply at Transat I should be a Capt before any senior pilot because I have more 737 left seat time then any of them.

3) if Gilles last two comments don't show you his true goal of SW bashing for his own gains and not the betterment of Canadian pilots then you're brainwashed already. SW is about to hire 50 Canadians in one month, with a good chance of being permanent and that's not good enough for him.

Think for yourselves....

[Big Pistons Forever]

SW is about to hire 50 Canadians in one month, with a good chance of being permanent and that's not good enough for him.

Think for yourselves....

I never saw anything in Gilles posts that said SW should hire incompetent pilots, he simply said that they should look to hire Canadian pilots to fly for a Canadian airline something that is now happening but was not the case in the past.

Why do think that hiring came to pass ? What could have caused such a major shift in Sunwing corporate strategy with respect to sourcing pilots ?

Think for yourselves....

[aerosexual]

The rest of your post is your typical song and dance. Sunwing hired a number of Canjet pilots last year, and you can bet they will hire Canjet pilots again this year. They will surely hire as many as they possibly can. There's no point in making this more complicated than it is. You must be a peach to fly with.

Ahh Yes, the personal insult; the last refuge of the guy that has a losing argument.

Sorry BPF, the problem with Giles' argument is that he goes into a huge nonsensical rhetoric about how he sees things. Please tell me what part of what I said was incorrect, leading you to believe I'm "losing" the argument? All I am doing is stating facts in order to try to find some balance.

Gilles interprets things in a skewed way and states them as facts. The fact is, Sunwing hired a bunch of Canjet pilots last year. And although it remains to be seen, you can bet Sunwing will hire many Canjet pilots this year too.

As for the rest of his arguments, Sunwing routinely disqualifies foreign pilots, either in the sim, or through an interview process. Let's not lose sight of the main argument, which is if Sunwing is bringing in foreign pilots, that it should be done in a fair, and reciprocal manner. Nobody disagrees with that, especially Sunwing pilots.

[aerosexual]

Why do think that hiring came to pass ? What could have caused such a major shift in Sunwing corporate strategy with respect to sourcing pilots ?

Think for yourselves....

I can tell you what caused it - pressure from Sunwing pilots and also a realization from Sunwing management that this strategy made sense. This is something that they had been fighting for since the numbers were skewed in the wrong direction with more foreign pilots than the number Sunwing was sending overseas for a couple of years. This shift started happening before Gilles came into the picture.

[Old fella]

"No they don't. Sunwing does not have to hire anybody they don't want to. Obviously it is in Sunwing's best interest to hire as many 737 rated pilots from Canjet as possible, much like they have done previously. But they are under no obligation to hire anybody they do not see fit.

Nothing wrong with your statement not in the least. Ditto for my statement in that I am under no obligation to use Sunwing services for my planned vacation(s). And........ I am not going to.

[Takeoff OK]

If you are a Canadian seasonal pilot, even with a B737NG rating, you are interviewed, vetted, and can be disqualified by Sunwing for any reason. Like all airlines rightfully do.

So we agree, as would any reasonable person.
...You must be a peach to fly with.

You're right, Gilles is an absolute joy to fly with! Straightforward, honest, intelligent, dedicated, highly-skilled, and very humourous; just a real stand up guy.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I do not think that Sunwing's management position has shifted at all. They continue to try every trick in the book to dodge regulations. Take the incident that occurred in Europe a couple weeks ago with those 8 Sunwing pilots for example. Of course one cannot count on aerosexual to inform us about it, can we? It's confidential Sunwing information that is of no concern to the rest of us.

Just last fall, Sunwing brought into Canada a bunch of foreign pilots who had not yet received their work permit. Canadian authorities said nothing although they intered Canada on false pretexts. Sunwing then provided these foreign pilots with ground school although they had no work permit. Sunwing instructed those pilots to tell Immigration that these pilots had come to Canada to receive training, which was false. Canadian authorities said nothing. They sent those foreign pilots to simulator although they had no work permits. Again under the guise that these foreign pilots were here to receive training. Sunwing Company check pilots are only allowed to provide training to people employed by Sunwing. Could foreign pilots who were not yet in possession of work permits be considered employees ? Canadian authorities said nothing. Sunwing then allowed those foreign pilots who had no work permits to access Sunwing cockpits (against the CARs) during revenue flights and gave them their line indoctrination. This again was illegal. Canadian authorities, including Transport Canada, said nothing. Then suddenly the work permits fell from the sky in 12th 1/2 hour. No sanctions were taken for all the rules they had busted. Everyone conveniently looked the other way. As usual.
ESDC looked the other way.
Immigration Canada looked the other way.
Revenue Canada looked the other way.
Transport Canada looked the other way.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. Sunwing tried did something of the same nature on the other side of the Atlantic ocean. But European authorities are not quite as forgiving as Canadians are they aerosexual ? Unlike in Canada, their government agencies stand up for European workers. Tell us was happened then aerosexual. I'll give you the honor, although I hate to have to prompt you like this. I would have preferred to see you volunteer the info on your own.....

On another subject, I cannot speak for the Sunwing pilot union. I can appreciate that they are often between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't want to be in their place. Theirs is a very difficult task. Sunwing Management claims that the growth that did occur and that has allowed Sunwing to hire more Canadian pilots and upgrade others, has been fueled in large part by the TFW pilots and that this growth would not have been possible without them. Sunwing stresses that this is temporary and that eventually sometime in the future, things will balance out, when Sunwing has finished taking all of the market away from the competition. I cannot speak for the Sunwing pilot union but I have a pretty good idea I know where their heart is. They want those TFW to go away. Same goes for the majority of Sunwing pilots. But management wants them to believe that getting rid of TFW pilot will make Sunwing go out of business and that they will all lose their jobs if that ever occurs. Which explains the few, like aerosexual, who have a deep fear that what I do will put them out of a job. So these few fear me like the plague. Not the majority.
Suwwing could survive and thrive without TFW. It's just that they will need to hire and train 160 Canadian pilots for next winter in order to crew those 31 Boeing 737s, instead of the 40 temps they plan on hiring. Not only will that cost them more money in cut into their profits, but it will displease TUI, who needs Sunwing to place all those extra pilots it would otherwise pays for nothing in the winter.......

So aerosexual, please explain in details what happened to your 8 colleagues two weeks ago in Europe. If you have amnesia, I can PM you their names..........

[aerosexual]

I do not think that Sunwing's management position has shifted at all. They continue to try every trick in the book to dodge regulations. Take the incident that occurred in Europe a couple weeks ago with those 8 Sunwing pilots for example. Of course one cannot count on aerosexual to inform us about it, can we? It's confidential Sunwing information that is of no concern to the rest of us.

Honestly Gilles, this is a perfect example of how you twist things around and make them seem like something they are not. There was nothing different, as far as I'm aware of course, in how this wet-lease was handled as far as its arrival across the pond. The customs officer who met the aircraft upon arrival was not comfortable stamping the arrival into the country. The higher ups were not around on this particular Sunday I believe it was, and there was a delay in processing the arrival as a result until the next day. If there were an issue, then the aircraft would have been impounded, and/or the crew deported back to Canada. None of the above happened. Much ado about nothing Gilles.

Just last fall, Sunwing brought into Canada a bunch of foreign pilots who had not yet received their work permit. Canadian authorities said nothing although they intered Canada on false pretexts. Sunwing then provided these foreign pilots with ground school although they had no work permit. Sunwing instructed those pilots to tell Immigration that these pilots had come to Canada to receive training, which was false. Canadian authorities said nothing. They sent those foreign pilots to simulator although they had no work permits. Again under the guise that these foreign pilots were here to receive training. Sunwing Company check pilots are only allowed to provide training to people employed by Sunwing. Could foreign pilots who were not yet in possession of work permits be considered employees ? Canadian authorities said nothing. Sunwing then allowed those foreign pilots who had no work permits to access Sunwing cockpits (against the CARs) during revenue flights and gave them their line indoctrination. This again was illegal. Canadian authorities, including Transport Canada, said nothing. Then suddenly the work permits fell from the sky in 12th 1/2 hour. No sanctions were taken for all the rules they had busted. Everyone conveniently looked the other way. As usual.
ESDC looked the other way.
Immigration Canada looked the other way.
Revenue Canada looked the other way.
Transport Canada looked the other way.

You see Gilles, nobody argues that Sunwing does not try to work the system to their benefit. Just like Air Transat, just like Canjet, just like Air Canada, etc etc. That is the nature of capitalism whether we like it or not. But let's face it, all of the above are based on interpretations. You interpret things one way. The above layers of government interpret things in some way or another. Sunwing lawyers and management interpret things some way as well. The optics look funny, but perhaps things aren't as illegal or crooked as you make it seem. And let's face it, your parent company has participated in exactly the same thing.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. Sunwing tried something to pull a little stunt of the of the same nature on the other side of the Atlantic ocean. But European authorities are not quite as forgiving as Canadians are they aerosexual ? Tell us was happened then aerosexual. I'll give you the honor, although I hate to have to prompt you like this. I would have preferred to see you volunteer the info on your own.....

I've covered this already. Really there's no story here, inasmuch as you'd like there to be.

On another subject, I cannot speak for the Sunwing pilot union. I can appreciate that they are often between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't want to be in their place. Theirs is a very difficult task. Sunwing Management claims that the growth that did occur and that has allowed Sunwing to hire more Canadian pilots and upgrade others, has been fueled in large part by the TFW pilots and that this growth would not have been possible without them. Sunwing stresses that this is temporary and that eventually sometime in the future, things will balance out, when Sunwing has finished taking all of the market away from the competition. I cannot speak for the Sunwing pilot union but I have a pretty good idea I know where their heart is. They want those TFW to go away. Same goes for the majority of Sunwing pilots. But management wants them to believe that getting rid of TFW pilot will make Sunwing go out of business and that they will all lose their jobs if that ever occurs. Which explains the few, like aerosexual, who have a deep fear that what I do will put them out of a job. So these few fear me like the plague. Not the majority.
Suwwing could survive and thrive without TFW. It's just that they will need to hire and train 160 Canadian pilots for next winter in order to crew those 31 Boeing 737s, instead of the 40 temps they plan on hiring. Not only will that cost them more money in cut into their profits, but it will displease TUI, who needs Sunwing to place all those extra pilots it would otherwise pays for nothing in the winter.......

So aerosexual, please explain in details what happened to your 8 colleagues two weeks ago in Europe. If you have amnesia, I can PM you their names..........

Anyhow, as I have said before many times, we all want pretty much the same thing - a fair, equitable and accountable means by which the reciprocal pilot program is managed. It started off heavily favouring Sunwing pilots when Sunwing started off (i.e. no foreign pilots were brought in to Canada in the first few years). A few years later things swung in the opposite direction, and they are now coming back into a reasonable balance, but there is still work to be done. My problem is the constant attack on Sunwing, implicating its pilots, and an outsider taking credit for the work that Sunwing pilots and the Sunwing pilot's union have done over the last few years. If we work together, we will accomplish a lot more. If we attack eachother we go nowhere.

[aerosexual]

If you are a Canadian seasonal pilot, even with a B737NG rating, you are interviewed, vetted, and can be disqualified by Sunwing for any reason. Like all airlines rightfully do.

So we agree, as would any reasonable person.
...You must be a peach to fly with.

You're right, Gilles is an absolute joy to fly with! Straightforward, honest, intelligent, dedicated, highly-skilled, and very humourous; just a real stand up guy.

Honestly I've heard Gilles is very nice. I shouldn't have said what I said, but he comes across as very stubborn on here. I'd hate to see him get the wrong meal or something

[aerosexual]

"No they don't. Sunwing does not have to hire anybody they don't want to. Obviously it is in Sunwing's best interest to hire as many 737 rated pilots from Canjet as possible, much like they have done previously. But they are under no obligation to hire anybody they do not see fit.

Nothing wrong with your statement not in the least. Ditto for my statement in that I am under no obligation to use Sunwing services for my planned vacation(s). And........ I am not going to.

That's okay!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Honestly Gilles, this is a perfect example of how you twist things around and make them seem like something they are not. There was nothing different, as far as I'm aware of course, in how this wet-lease was handled as far as its arrival across the pond. The customs officer who met the aircraft upon arrival was not comfortable stamping the arrival into the country. The higher ups were not around on this particular Sunday I believe it was, and there was a delay in processing the arrival as a result until the next day.

And where did the crew (of eight pilots) spend that night while this "misunderstanding" was cleared up by Sunwing lawyers ?

If there were an issue, then the aircraft would have been impounded, and/or the crew deported back to Canada. None of the above happened.

None were deported back to Canada ? Are you certain ?

[Big Pistons Forever]

I shouldn't have said what I said, but he comes across as very stubborn on here.

Pot.....Kettle......

[aerosexual]

I shouldn't have said what I said, but he comes across as very stubborn on here.

Pot.....Kettle......

Perhaps. But after seeing things being misrepresented for too long, and still being the case, I thought I'd try to state some facts. However, too much noise is being made and frankly I'm ready to throw in the towel. None of this accomplishes anything, arguing on the internet seems more about who can make more noise than about having meaningful discussion. This isn't about "losing the argument", it's about having better things to do quite frankly. It reminds me of CNN or Fox News style reporting. Who cares about the facts, let's just make a stink about something and somebody is bound to pay attention, and our ratings will soar.

[aerosexual]

Honestly Gilles, this is a perfect example of how you twist things around and make them seem like something they are not. There was nothing different, as far as I'm aware of course, in how this wet-lease was handled as far as its arrival across the pond. The customs officer who met the aircraft upon arrival was not comfortable stamping the arrival into the country. The higher ups were not around on this particular Sunday I believe it was, and there was a delay in processing the arrival as a result until the next day.

And where did the crew (of eight pilots) spend that night while this "misunderstanding" was cleared up by Sunwing lawyers ?

If there were an issue, then the aircraft would have been impounded, and/or the crew deported back to Canada. None of the above happened.

None were deported back to Canada ? Are you certain ?

I know what you are referring to, it's a separate issue from the above, and again it is something you are misrepresenting. However, I know you're itching to soil Sunwing's name. In the mean time, the aircraft and crew continue to operate every flight out of LGW. But go ahead, have fun, goodnight.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Its not about ratings or about taking credit, as you continually infer. It's about stopping the foreign pilots from taking jobs with a Canadian airline in Canada, jobs that should go to Canadians.

I'll make it as simple as possible:

Sunwing is sending 4 wet leases to Europe this summer (64 Canadian pilots exactly, don't ask me to post proof for I will)

Fair and balanced would be allowing Sunwing to import 4 wet lease from Europe next winter with an equal number of pilots.

Not six wet leases plus 120 TFW pilots for a total of over 200 foreign pilots.

This imbalance what this is all this is all about. Nothing more to it. Sunwing quits this B/S and I will crawl back under my rock and remain there.

[aerosexual]

Its not about ratings or about taking credit, as you continually infer. It's about stopping the foreign pilots from taking jobs with a Canadian airline in Canada, jobs that should go to Canadians.

I'll make it as simple as possible:

Sunwing is sending 4 wet leases to Europe this summer (64 Canadian pilots exactly, don't ask me to post proof for I will)

Fair and balanced would be allowing Sunwing to import 4 wet lease from Europe next winter with an equal number of pilots.

Not six wet leases plus 120 TFW pilots for a total of over 200 foreign pilots.

This imbalance is all this is all about. Nothing more to it. Sunwing quits this B/S and I will crawl back under my rock and remain there.

Guess what? You're absolutely right! If you stick to the facts like you did in this post, then we are all on the same page! When you go off on your tangents about nonsense, creating stories that don't exist, or insinuating things that you interpret in your own world, then that's when things get stupid. Quite frankly, more aircraft should have (and would have) gone overseas this year if it were up to Sunwing, but the pilots put a stop to that and you know that.

The number that went overseas was in fact 66. Based on the original plan, Sunwing was going to send approximately 110 pilots overseas on full deployments, but it was due to disagreements with the EASA requirements that Sunwing pilots put a limit on the number of deployed pilots this summer.

Fighting the imbalance constructively and not destructively is the only way forward for everybody. That's how things will continue to get done.

Goodnight!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

I wanted for Transport Canada to halt FLVC to foreign pilots for commercial revenue flying in Canada.
Instead, the Europeans put a halt to FLVCs for Canadian pilots going to Europe.

I wanted for Transport Canada to crack down on European pilots who came to Canada on FLVCs and exceeded the 900 hours that their European licences allowed them to fly annually. Transport Canada refused to crack down, Martin Eley telling me in my face that this was no concern of his.
Instead, the Europeans cracked down on Canadian pilots going to work in Europe, insisting that they were bound by the 900 hour limit when they went over to Europe to work.

I wanted for Canada Customs to arrest or stop those foreign pilots who came over to Canada last year and did their line indoctrination although they did not have Canadian work permits.
Instead, UK customs arrested Canadian pilots going overseas.

Everything seems to work backwards. And I realize that European authorities do what they are supposed to, while Canadian authorities seem to let everything slide.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc

[Old fella]

"No they don't. Sunwing does not have to hire anybody they don't want to. Obviously it is in Sunwing's best interest to hire as many 737 rated pilots from Canjet as possible, much like they have done previously. But they are under no obligation to hire anybody they do not see fit.

Nothing wrong with your statement not in the least. Ditto for my statement in that I am under no obligation to use Sunwing services for my planned vacation(s). And........ I am not going to.

That's okay!

....... I will pass it on with my recommendation to the other old fools to tip their VISA/AMEX to AC and WJ. They, at times do listen to me cause I am the chief old fool!!!

[whipline]

I've always been for one to one. Gilles is mostly correct.

Oh and Gilles years ago I was detained by UK customs/immigration. I had the correct paperwork but the border guard wasn't sure. It was a weekend and early morning. It took three hours to solve. I'm betting what happened was the same. Oh and I gladly would have been deported home.

Old fella you've never liked sunwing even though you've never travelled on us. Stroke ego elsewhere.