Skycare Navajo Gear up YRL Fri May 23rd

[Donald]

Is Illya the new name for Doc?

Still waiting for an answer.

[Chuck Finley]

Donald wrote:
Is Illya the new name for Doc?



Still waiting for an answer.

Does it matter?

[single_swine_herder]

I'd like to pose the question about the assumption of the crew having a Water Buffalo-sized checklist which was large enough to choke a salt water croc, and how that would lead to such a contemptuous regard for something which is an industry standard.

Well industry standard, except among "real pilots" that is.

Further, the whole concept of "Common Sense, are you born with it it or Screwed Forever?" is worth having it's own thread.

[Krimson]

At the risk of another oversimplification, we
can divide pilots up into four groups.

4) this group of people has terrible aptitude
and such low knowledge / skill level that they
do not pass the qualifications

3) this group of guys is really marginal. They
lack aptitude, might not work very hard, might
not really be very motivated, but for whatever
reason, skate right on the edge of failure but
somehow manage to skate through, perhaps
via luck, timing, connections, etc. Occasionally
you might think they are in group #4 when they
fail out, but they reappear later through another
attempt.

2) this group of guys is inert. They pass the tests
but an original thought and a cold drink of water
would probably kill them. They can probably fly
an airplane without wrecking it as long as nothing
really challenging happens. Flying is just a job to
them. If they could earn the same money driving
a tractor, they would.

1) this group of guys are great pilots. They're the
guys who always figure out how to survive.

What about Group 0?

Those who can do surface acro in a pitts? We can't forget about them. It wouldn't be justice putting them in a group with just "great pilots".

[Mach1]

So, the over all opinion is that people should not learn from thier mistakes. Interesting life choice to make.

[complexintentions]

Studies have shown that the pilots most likely to have an accident, are the ones who have already had an accident. I'd have a very hard time hiring a pilot who had forgotten to put the gear down. I don't feel I have to justify that. I'm sure many would disagree, but I'm thinking the silent majority will agree.
Illya

Please post a link to even just one of these "studies" you mention. What nonsense. If anything, the opposite is true, history has taught that experience is one of the most effective teachers there is. The problem is, to paraphrase the saying that used to be on the TC bulletins, you won't get the chance in aviation to make all of the mistakes yourself.

I mentioned I knew one of the crew of the Citation that geared-up in BC years ago. I'd gladly fly with him in a heartbeat, over pretty much any other pilot out there. He's gone on to a stellar career and is in one of the top positions of the company he works for, as he should be. I wouldn't hesitate to put my family in an aircraft he was in command of.

The FO from the Air Transat Azores glider accident is here working at Emirates. I'm pretty sure EK has higher employment standards than whatever outfit you're saying you do the hiring for.

Examples abound of pilots with accidents on their record going on to have long, safe careers. I'd be careful with blanket statements.

[Indanao]

Examples abound of pilots with accidents on their record going on to have long, safe careers. I'd be careful with blanket statements.

+1

Illya ( Doc ), but people keep repeating rumors of studies that cannot be backed up. Pilots need their egos, but lets not do it at the expense of other Pilots.

Trey Kule ( NOT ): For a fellow that hires first on, " looks " - you certainly have a lot to say about the competency of other Pilots. A lot of those, " Pilots " were probably hired at one time by people like you who hire on, " looks " first. But Pilots need their egos - you have at least mastered that. This just ain't the place for it !

[Colonel Sanders]

The extensive training in statistics which
is apparent amongst the AvCan Brain Trust (tm)
is amusing.

[Indanao]

Your amusing ?

Your studies mean what the author wants in most cases.

[Colonel Sanders]

Your amazing

You're amazing.

[Liquid Charlie]

not my amazing

[lost in the north]

I have hired a lot of pilots over the last 25 yrs that have had an accident. I always figured everyone is human and can make a mistake. I always figured that they would be a lot more careful in the future. I was never disappointed. They did a great job. I would not have a problem doing it again. I don't think people get up in the morning intending to get in an accident. Shit happens......I. Don 't think it's okay, but it happens. Let's help them get up and flying again with some help. We don't know the personal problems or if the guy was under pressure. I know some will come on and bash me for my personnel option but I am paying the insurance and they have me on a open pilot clause which let's me hire who I feel fit.

[esp803]

I don't have a large chunk of time flying things with wheels that disappear into the belly after take off, and I'd like to think that I'd remember to put them down given the chance. I also firmly believe(d) that I will never be involved in a CFIT accident, but last winter I lost a very experienced friend to that. That accident made me reflect on my relative inexperience, and the few misses I've had in my thus short career. Will I always remember to put the gear down? I hope so. Will I avoid CFIT? I hope so, unfortunately I can't promise either 100%.

E

[Shiny Side Up]

I have hired a lot of pilots over the last 25 yrs that have had an accident. I always figured everyone is human and can make a mistake. I always figured that they would be a lot more careful in the future. I was never disappointed.

It depends. Sometimes you can spot a repeat offender. I know a few guys who've banged up a lot of aircraft. Some of them minor, some of them major. To hear them tell about it, its never their fault, they've always got an excuse. Unfortunately they can usually bullshit their way out of these corners and get people to let them fly airplanes again. While you'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt, its been my experience that with some sorts of transgressions you can't afford to. In a lot of the cases when I got a bad feeling about someone, well lets say they don't disappoint.

[lost in the north]

I do agree that thet is pilots that will wreck more than one. I hired them after a lengthy interview. I also knew the culture at their last employer. Of the ones I did hire, I was never dissapointed. Most are now with Air Canada,Westjet,etc.