androids wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:24 am
On a side note. The golden age of being a pilot has long since past. Regardless of the path taken to the top of ones flying career the net outcome all things considered puts a Canadian pilot (and most others in the world) no further ahead than a truck driver, bus driver, train driver, ferry driver - pension or no pension. There is a well known "complex" that exists within most pilots chasing the lifelong carrot that somehow draws blinders or just completely ignores this fact. Everything in life gets delayed chasing this carrot - house, family, kids, divorce etc.. the sacrifices are massive. Very very hard for pilots to see or understand this until they reach their 50's, by then the damage has already been done.
Interesting.
The appraisal of the pilot profession made in this post (and this thread) and the gloomy picture it paints is squarely rooted in the assumption that the pilot profession does not exist if you aren't an airline pilot. That a pilot's career is meaningless unless it culminates in reaching the highest seniority at one of the majors.
Once you let go of that paradigm, the pilot profession takes an entirely new meaning. And I for one can say that I am well in my 50s, undamaged, and still giggle like a little kid every time I pop on top of the clouds to a view that never gets old.
I'll never come close to hold a high seniority number at a major. And yet I have a had a great life and flying career! How bout that??
58
PS: While writing this I forgot the point i was trying to make.
Young new pilots entering the profession are being brainwashed to think like this and perpetuates this fallacy that the pilot profession isn't what it used to be. The AIRLINE profession isn't what it used to be. But FLYING? That has not changed
This! Very eloquent.
I’ve worked for several airlines in Canada. Come to think of it, some of the happiest (professional) pilot’s I know…don’t work for the airlines. Imagine that.
androids wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:24 am
On a side note. The golden age of being a pilot has long since past. Regardless of the path taken to the top of ones flying career the net outcome all things considered puts a Canadian pilot (and most others in the world) no further ahead than a truck driver, bus driver, train driver, ferry driver - pension or no pension. There is a well known "complex" that exists within most pilots chasing the lifelong carrot that somehow draws blinders or just completely ignores this fact. Everything in life gets delayed chasing this carrot - house, family, kids, divorce etc.. the sacrifices are massive. Very very hard for pilots to see or understand this until they reach their 50's, by then the damage has already been done.
Interesting.
The appraisal of the pilot profession made in this post (and this thread) and the gloomy picture it paints is squarely rooted in the assumption that the pilot profession does not exist if you aren't an airline pilot. That a pilot's career is meaningless unless it culminates in reaching the highest seniority at one of the majors.
Once you let go of that paradigm, the pilot profession takes an entirely new meaning. And I for one can say that I am well in my 50s, undamaged, and still giggle like a little kid every time I pop on top of the clouds to a view that never gets old.
I'll never come close to hold a high seniority number at a major. And yet I have a had a great life and flying career! How bout that??
58
PS: While writing this I forgot the point i was trying to make.
Young new pilots entering the profession are being brainwashed to think like this and perpetuates this fallacy that the pilot profession isn't what it used to be. The AIRLINE profession isn't what it used to be. But FLYING? That has not changed
Great post. To be clear though, the majority of airline pilots I know, myself included, are happy with their job. I couldn’t imagine doing anything else for a living and would recommend it to others as well. With that said, I don’t work at Jazz and I do understand the shit show that is going on there now and do sympathize.
androids wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:24 am
On a side note. The golden age of being a pilot has long since past. Regardless of the path taken to the top of ones flying career the net outcome all things considered puts a Canadian pilot (and most others in the world) no further ahead than a truck driver, bus driver, train driver, ferry driver - pension or no pension. There is a well known "complex" that exists within most pilots chasing the lifelong carrot that somehow draws blinders or just completely ignores this fact. Everything in life gets delayed chasing this carrot - house, family, kids, divorce etc.. the sacrifices are massive. Very very hard for pilots to see or understand this until they reach their 50's, by then the damage has already been done.
Interesting.
The appraisal of the pilot profession made in this post (and this thread) and the gloomy picture it paints is squarely rooted in the assumption that the pilot profession does not exist if you aren't an airline pilot. That a pilot's career is meaningless unless it culminates in reaching the highest seniority at one of the majors.
Once you let go of that paradigm, the pilot profession takes an entirely new meaning. And I for one can say that I am well in my 50s, undamaged, and still giggle like a little kid every time I pop on top of the clouds to a view that never gets old.
I'll never come close to hold a high seniority number at a major. And yet I have a had a great life and flying career! How bout that??
58
PS: While writing this I forgot the point i was trying to make.
Young new pilots entering the profession are being brainwashed to think like this and perpetuates this fallacy that the pilot profession isn't what it used to be. The AIRLINE profession isn't what it used to be. But FLYING? That has not changed
This! Very eloquent.
I’ve worked for several airlines in Canada. Come to think of it, some of the happiest (professional) pilot’s I know…don’t work for the airlines. Imagine that.
The appraisal of the pilot profession made in this post (and this thread) and the gloomy picture it paints is squarely rooted in the assumption that the pilot profession does not exist if you aren't an airline pilot. That a pilot's career is meaningless unless it culminates in reaching the highest seniority at one of the majors.
Once you let go of that paradigm, the pilot profession takes an entirely new meaning. And I for one can say that I am well in my 50s, undamaged, and still giggle like a little kid every time I pop on top of the clouds to a view that never gets old.
I'll never come close to hold a high seniority number at a major. And yet I have a had a great life and flying career! How bout that??
58
PS: While writing this I forgot the point i was trying to make.
Young new pilots entering the profession are being brainwashed to think like this and perpetuates this fallacy that the pilot profession isn't what it used to be. The AIRLINE profession isn't what it used to be. But FLYING? That has not changed
This! Very eloquent.
I’ve worked for several airlines in Canada. Come to think of it, some of the happiest (professional) pilot’s I know…don’t work for the airlines. Imagine that.
Thanks DD! Funny how that works doesn't it?
58
Where as I have worked for several smaller companies before Jazz, 14 years of that and I was done with them, I was considering changing careers when Jazz called me.
The only companies I was happy at was when I was either the CP or the Ops Manager and I know the pilots were happy with me as a manager because they said so. But when I worked for others that had company shills for CPs or OMs, those operations were shit and a constant battle to keep from breaking regs or dying.
I have always been happy at Jazz, job satisfaction is generally high with recent developments overshadowing this to an extent but overall still happy.
androids wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:24 am
On a side note. The golden age of being a pilot has long since past. Regardless of the path taken to the top of ones flying career the net outcome all things considered puts a Canadian pilot (and most others in the world) no further ahead than a truck driver, bus driver, train driver, ferry driver - pension or no pension. There is a well known "complex" that exists within most pilots chasing the lifelong carrot that somehow draws blinders or just completely ignores this fact. Everything in life gets delayed chasing this carrot - house, family, kids, divorce etc.. the sacrifices are massive. Very very hard for pilots to see or understand this until they reach their 50's, by then the damage has already been done.
Interesting.
The appraisal of the pilot profession made in this post (and this thread) and the gloomy picture it paints is squarely rooted in the assumption that the pilot profession does not exist if you aren't an airline pilot. That a pilot's career is meaningless unless it culminates in reaching the highest seniority at one of the majors.
Once you let go of that paradigm, the pilot profession takes an entirely new meaning. And I for one can say that I am well in my 50s, undamaged, and still giggle like a little kid every time I pop on top of the clouds to a view that never gets old.
I'll never come close to hold a high seniority number at a major. And yet I have a had a great life and flying career! How bout that??
58
PS: While writing this I forgot the point i was trying to make.
Young new pilots entering the profession are being brainwashed to think like this and perpetuates this fallacy that the pilot profession isn't what it used to be. The AIRLINE profession isn't what it used to be. But FLYING? That has not changed
Great post. To be clear though, the majority of airline pilots I know, myself included, are happy with their job. I couldn’t imagine doing anything else for a living and would recommend it to others as well. With that said, I don’t work at Jazz and I do understand the shit show that is going on there now and do sympathize.
Hey ant,
You may find it funny that I am an airline pilot AND working at Jazz. I am trying to make a distinction between how great flying is and the working conditions associated with a flying job which, unfortunately for the new pilots entering the profession, are rolled into one big mess.
Having the opportunity to do some other kind of flying before stepping in the 705 operation makes it so that one can make that distinction and still enjoy the flying they do while also wanting and working towards better conditions, rather than be miserable, bitter and just a toxic person to share the cockpit with.
North Shore wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:07 am
^Ha ha…I wonder how much time elapsed between the ‘Private and Confidential’ notice hitting email inboxes, and getting posted on here? LOL
North Shore wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:07 am
^Ha ha…I wonder how much time elapsed between the ‘Private and Confidential’ notice hitting email inboxes, and getting posted on here? LOL
North Shore wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 9:07 am
^Ha ha…I wonder how much time elapsed between the ‘Private and Confidential’ notice hitting email inboxes, and getting posted on here? LOL
I can confirm it was minutes lol.
you think ?
It doesn’t seem like the company and union will reach a negotiated solution. Does anyone have a clue what an arbitrator will do with PAL? (The loss of exclusivity to express flying)
It doesn’t seem like the company and union will reach a negotiated solution. Does anyone have a clue what an arbitrator will do with PAL? (The loss of exclusivity to express flying)
Nick, who really cares about PAL to be honest... we can't cover flying, we cancel shitload of flights and are upset we share the pie ?
It doesn’t seem like the company and union will reach a negotiated solution. Does anyone have a clue what an arbitrator will do with PAL? (The loss of exclusivity to express flying)
Nick, who really cares about PAL to be honest... we can't cover flying, we cancel shitload of flights and are upset we share the pie ?
I’m not a a dick but I thought this would be pretty obvious, why can’t we cover all the flying?
We signed that agreement for all the express flying because
It gave us more bargaining power. Nothing against PAL at all.
It doesn’t seem like the company and union will reach a negotiated solution. Does anyone have a clue what an arbitrator will do with PAL? (The loss of exclusivity to express flying)
Nick, who really cares about PAL to be honest... we can't cover flying, we cancel shitload of flights and are upset we share the pie ?
I’m not a a dick but I thought this would be pretty obvious, why can’t we cover all the flying?
We signed that agreement for all the express flying because
It gave us more bargaining power. Nothing against PAL at all.
Yes, it’s a situation of their own making and one they refuse to address properly so they go to the old burning platform method, someone will always do it for less.
Not surprisingly, I’ve heard some senior Jazz pilots who may retire and go there for a few years.
While I don’t appreciate the undercutting, I do understand why.
I just don’t understand it….. Is Jazz/AC management that retarded and oblivious or is there a master plan going on where they want to drastically shrink the company. Captains are leaving in droves and I don’t see many upgrades on the schedules happening.
The open flying list for August is growing by the minute.
Inverted2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:12 pm
I just don’t understand it….. Is Jazz/AC management that retarded and oblivious or is there a master plan going on where they want to drastically shrink the company. Captains are leaving in droves and I don’t see many upgrades on the schedules happening.
The open flying list for August is growing by the minute.
I stand by my belief that they are oblivious. They just can't comprehend a situation they now face, and just can't accept that the solution is to pay pilots more. Everything you see is them trying to figure out what to do, and avoid the one thing they need to do. But they are so far behind at this point, it will be very difficult to fix. They still haven't quite accepted the reality that it isn't about shaving pennies of seat miles, but keeping airplanes in the air. Porter understands this, and is acting accordingly. Air Canada is still playing the game like they are in the 90s.
A very entertaining and respected coworker said this...
Here we are standing next to a massive 1000 hectare forest fire and management is guzzling beer and pissing on it thinking it'll just put itself out while the tankers and equipment are sitting 50ft away at the ready.
Rowdy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:14 am
A very entertaining and respected coworker said this...
Here we are standing next to a massive 1000 hectare forest fire and management is guzzling beer and pissing on it thinking it'll just put itself out while the tankers and equipment are sitting 50ft away at the ready.
Management knows what has to be done, but the required money isn't theirs to give. I think a more apt description is, management drinking said beer talking about how blown away they are 99% of their pilots haven't left yet, and seem to be hanging onto some sort of unsupported hope.
Rowdy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:14 am
A very entertaining and respected coworker said this...
Here we are standing next to a massive 1000 hectare forest fire and management is guzzling beer and pissing on it thinking it'll just put itself out while the tankers and equipment are sitting 50ft away at the ready.
Management knows what has to be done, but the required money isn't theirs to give. I think a more apt description is, management drinking said beer talking about how blown away they are 99% of their pilots haven't left yet, and seem to be hanging onto some sort of unsupported hope.
Excuses are easy. Assign blame (typically elsewhere).
Solutions are tough. They involve making decisions and accepting responsibility. That creates personal risk depending on the outcome.
So no matter what may or may not be going on behind the scenes, nothing has changed. Nothing.
kiaszceski wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:40 am
Or maybe the management is burning the ground all around the fire and wait for it to be putting out by itself?
They are smarter than pilots think. Stop thinking they are stupid. They are at least 3 or 4 steps ahead of us.
No, they are not. This is a foolish sentiment to beleive, and many companies have gone under believing nonesense like this. They may beleive theybare 3 or 4 steps ahead, but really they are trying to play the game using outdated thinking.
3 or 3 steps ahead does not include shrinking, handing pilots to the competition as they rapidly scale, and having some of the worst on time performance and cancelations in the world. That is what incompetence looks like.
kiaszceski wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:40 am
Or maybe the management is burning the ground all around the fire and wait for it to be putting out by itself?
They are smarter than pilots think. Stop thinking they are stupid. They are at least 3 or 4 steps ahead of us.
No, they are not. This is a foolish sentiment to beleive, and many companies have gone under believing nonesense like this. They may beleive theybare 3 or 4 steps ahead, but really they are trying to play the game using outdated thinking.
3 or 3 steps ahead does not include shrinking, handing pilots to the competition as they rapidly scale, and having some of the worst on time performance and cancelations in the world. That is what incompetence looks like.
Man if you’re going to refute the claim that management is smarter then we think, you best try and spell properly at least! The optics here are hilarious.
kiaszceski wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:40 am
Or maybe the management is burning the ground all around the fire and wait for it to be putting out by itself?
They are smarter than pilots think. Stop thinking they are stupid. They are at least 3 or 4 steps ahead of us.
No, they are not. This is a foolish sentiment to beleive, and many companies have gone under believing nonesense like this. They may beleive theybare 3 or 4 steps ahead, but really they are trying to play the game using outdated thinking.
3 or 3 steps ahead does not include shrinking, handing pilots to the competition as they rapidly scale, and having some of the worst on time performance and cancelations in the world. That is what incompetence looks like.
Man if you’re going to refute the claim that management is smarter then we think, you best try and spell properly at least! The optics here are hilarious.
The lowest of all attacks... "you made a spelling mistake as you rabidly typed something out on your phone while floating down a river with a beer in your hand."
