• Grab a seat. The music is stopping

Posted: **Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:40 pm**

Sharklasers wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:15 pm
ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:11 pm
I can also see Flair and Swoop having a hard time because of this... with their prices they need excellent load-factors, and that's not going to happen if people need to save their pennies to pay off debt incurred by this whole shit-show.
I disagree, low cost carriers are the ones who are least impacted by events like this as people still want to travel but don't want to spend much money so book on the low cost carriers instead.
Your right, that’s how canjet 1, roots, greyhound, jetsgo, Canada 3000, ect ect ect were able to weather 9/11, SARS and the recession so well.

You are so right that many an airline and a pilot's dream have been destroyed by the reality of the industry.
Delta is cutting 40% of their flights and will be parking up to 300 ACFT. Reality is something that the Deamers and Snowflakes have never been exposed to before. A Rule of Thumb is that Aviation is always the first industry to cut back during a recession and the last to recover after the recession.

Posted: **Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:28 pm**

Sharklasers wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:15 pm
ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:11 pm
I can also see Flair and Swoop having a hard time because of this... with their prices they need excellent load-factors, and that's not going to happen if people need to save their pennies to pay off debt incurred by this whole shit-show.
I disagree, low cost carriers are the ones who are least impacted by events like this as people still want to travel but don't want to spend much money so book on the low cost carriers instead.
Your right, that’s how canjet 1, roots, greyhound, jetsgo, Canada 3000, ect ect ect were able to weather 9/11, SARS and the recession so well.

Flair, Canadian North and air north are the least exposed of all Canadian airlines at the moment with completely domestic schedules. Low cost carriers are typically less affected during recessions as long as they are capitalized.

Posted: **Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:40 pm**

tbaylx wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:28 pm
Sharklasers wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:15 pm
ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:11 pm

I disagree, low cost carriers are the ones who are least impacted by events like this as people still want to travel but don't want to spend much money so book on the low cost carriers instead.
Your right, that’s how canjet 1, roots, greyhound, jetsgo, Canada 3000, ect ect ect were able to weather 9/11, SARS and the recession so well.
Flair, Canadian North and air north are the least exposed of all Canadian airlines at the moment with completely domestic schedules. Low cost carriers are typically less affected during recessions as long as they are capitalized.

Canadian North and Air North are an essential service, I’m sure they will be fine. Flair has an all domestic schedule because they have been in a state of tactical retreat since last summer. With no domestic loads to speak of it doesn’t bode well for any airline.

Posted: **Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:19 pm**

I have to admit i've been feeling pretty low over the last year or so watching all my friends and colleagues move on to their "dream" companies while my behind stayed firmly planted in a left 703 medevac seat. It wasn't a matter of not having the opportunity...it's certainly been there. The choice was merely based on putting my family first and making a very comfortable living while not uprooting my wife and kids to go chase the big tin in a city that cost 3 times as much to live where I do. It was pretty hard most days to feel "stuck" in my current position...family guys probably get this. This week has certainly been an eye opener and made me appreciate where i'm at career wise a lot more. I feel for all the guys and gals that just got into the seat of their dreams and now fear for the worst in the coming weeks/months. Theres a lot of good folks that left the company i'm at and we'd be thrilled to have some return if it gets to that. Hopefully theres a lot more around the country willing to take some good people back too.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:45 am**

Your right, that’s how canjet 1, roots, greyhound, jetsgo, Canada 3000, ect ect ect were able to weather 9/11, SARS and the recession so well.

Those companies had other problems already.

Ryanair, easyJet etc etc must have gone bust then... oh no wait they didn't.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:59 am**

ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:45 am
Your right, that’s how canjet 1, roots, greyhound, jetsgo, Canada 3000, ect ect ect were able to weather 9/11, SARS and the recession so well.
Those companies had other problems already.

Ryanair, easyJet etc etc must have gone bust then... oh no wait they didn't.

Cash-on-hand.

If a company (any company) has it then it will survive a short term cash flow crisis. If not, all bets are off. Credit markets have tightened (lenders more cautious) and capital markets are in free fall.

This rule applies to big airlines and to mom and pop 703 outfits. If this lasts 3 months then the fallout will be minimal. Longer than that and there will be some commercial casualties.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:24 am**

greygoose wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:19 pm I have to admit i've been feeling pretty low over the last year or so watching all my friends and colleagues move on to their "dream" companies while my behind stayed firmly planted in a left 703 medevac seat. It wasn't a matter of not having the opportunity...it's certainly been there. The choice was merely based on putting my family first and making a very comfortable living while not uprooting my wife and kids to go chase the big tin in a city that cost 3 times as much to live where I do. It was pretty hard most days to feel "stuck" in my current position...family guys probably get this. This week has certainly been an eye opener and made me appreciate where i'm at career wise a lot more. I feel for all the guys and gals that just got into the seat of their dreams and now fear for the worst in the coming weeks/months. Theres a lot of good folks that left the company i'm at and we'd be thrilled to have some return if it gets to that. Hopefully theres a lot more around the country willing to take some good people back too.

Nothing to feel low about and you are not “stuck” in anything. It’s called “life” and choices have to be made. Sounds to me like you’ve got it all figured out pretty good.
Family should always come first, and with your job I suspect that you are likely able to be home most nights. To have the ability to be around for the family and to be there for the kids’ hockey, for their dance recitals etc or to just hang out with them is priceless. That may not be as likely in the airline world, especially in the first few years of an airline career. The grass is not always greener.
On the career side of the equation, I’m sure that you’ve honed a fine set of “hands and feet” piloting skills and decision making abilities in your current job that you use each and every day. I hope you take pride in that. The edge can tend to come off some of those hard earned skills over time in the airline world. With modern airliners, it can be easy to end up becoming nothing more than a systems monitor on a robotic transportation device if you allow it.
Good luck to all.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:10 am**

rxl wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:24 am
greygoose wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:19 pm I have to admit i've been feeling pretty low over the last year or so watching all my friends and colleagues move on to their "dream" companies while my behind stayed firmly planted in a left 703 medevac seat. It wasn't a matter of not having the opportunity...it's certainly been there. The choice was merely based on putting my family first and making a very comfortable living while not uprooting my wife and kids to go chase the big tin in a city that cost 3 times as much to live where I do. It was pretty hard most days to feel "stuck" in my current position...family guys probably get this. This week has certainly been an eye opener and made me appreciate where i'm at career wise a lot more. I feel for all the guys and gals that just got into the seat of their dreams and now fear for the worst in the coming weeks/months. Theres a lot of good folks that left the company i'm at and we'd be thrilled to have some return if it gets to that. Hopefully theres a lot more around the country willing to take some good people back too.
Nothing to feel low about and you are not “stuck” in anything. It’s called “life” and choices have to be made. Sounds to me like you’ve got it all figured out pretty good.
Family should always come first, and with your job I suspect that you are likely able to be home most nights. To have the ability to be around for the family and to be there for the kids’ hockey, for their dance recitals etc or to just hang out with them is priceless. That may not be as likely in the airline world, especially in the first few years of an airline career. The grass is not always greener.
On the career side of the equation, I’m sure that you’ve honed a fine set of “hands and feet” piloting skills and decision making abilities in your current job that you use each and every day. I hope you take pride in that. The edge can tend to come off some of those hard earned skills over time in the airline world. With modern airliners, it can be easy to end up becoming nothing more than a systems monitor on a robotic transportation device if you allow it.
Good luck to all.

Here here. No kids only our rescue dogs, but I'd consider myself lucky to land a gig that allowed a decent homelife/Westcoast life style and decent income. That's my goal. Even had a promising medivac FO lead a week ago that seems to have dried up now. I wish I was in your shoes!

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:22 am**

I often wondered what could have been as well. I decided to hang my hat at Jazz. I make a comfortable living here. I’m treated well. Sure I’m a little envious when I see former colleagues now flying 787s post photos of their more exciting layovers around the world while I’m at a boring hotel in Canada. Of course I’m not making as much as a newly upgraded 320 Captain but one thing I have is a seniority number and I wouldn’t want to be near the bottom of any seniority list right now. It’s all about making the best of your situation. Going to be a difficult next several months folks.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:16 pm**

ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:11 pm
I can also see Flair and Swoop having a hard time because of this... with their prices they need excellent load-factors, and that's not going to happen if people need to save their pennies to pay off debt incurred by this whole shit-show.
I disagree, low cost carriers are the ones who are least impacted by events like this as people still want to travel but don't want to spend much money so book on the low cost carriers instead.

Just booked a flight on Swoop from one side of the country to the other in May.....Under 100 dollars return, including tax. Never even heard of under 100 dollars for a 1 way ticket.

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:58 pm**

greygoose wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:19 pm I have to admit i've been feeling pretty low over the last year or so watching all my friends and colleagues move on to their "dream" companies while my behind stayed firmly planted in a left 703 medevac seat. It wasn't a matter of not having the opportunity...it's certainly been there. The choice was merely based on putting my family first and making a very comfortable living while not uprooting my wife and kids to go chase the big tin in a city that cost 3 times as much to live where I do. It was pretty hard most days to feel "stuck" in my current position...family guys probably get this. This week has certainly been an eye opener and made me appreciate where i'm at career wise a lot more. I feel for all the guys and gals that just got into the seat of their dreams and now fear for the worst in the coming weeks/months. Theres a lot of good folks that left the company i'm at and we'd be thrilled to have some return if it gets to that. Hopefully theres a lot more around the country willing to take some good people back too.

It’s not the size of the plane we fly in my opinion, it’s finding that combination of flying as a career and living a normal family back home. Don’t worry what others are flying , you be the best pilot for what you fly and be home on a normal life situation .
Trust me I’ve been there and done that.
Love what you do not necessarily what you fly.
Fly high my friend and fly safe

Posted: **Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:10 pm**

rxl wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:24 am
greygoose wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:19 pm I have to admit i've been feeling pretty low over the last year or so watching all my friends and colleagues move on to their "dream" companies while my behind stayed firmly planted in a left 703 medevac seat. It wasn't a matter of not having the opportunity...it's certainly been there. The choice was merely based on putting my family first and making a very comfortable living while not uprooting my wife and kids to go chase the big tin in a city that cost 3 times as much to live where I do. It was pretty hard most days to feel "stuck" in my current position...family guys probably get this. This week has certainly been an eye opener and made me appreciate where i'm at career wise a lot more. I feel for all the guys and gals that just got into the seat of their dreams and now fear for the worst in the coming weeks/months. Theres a lot of good folks that left the company i'm at and we'd be thrilled to have some return if it gets to that. Hopefully theres a lot more around the country willing to take some good people back too.
Nothing to feel low about and you are not “stuck” in anything. It’s called “life” and choices have to be made. Sounds to me like you’ve got it all figured out pretty good.
Family should always come first, and with your job I suspect that you are likely able to be home most nights. To have the ability to be around for the family and to be there for the kids’ hockey, for their dance recitals etc or to just hang out with them is priceless. That may not be as likely in the airline world, especially in the first few years of an airline career. The grass is not always greener.
On the career side of the equation, I’m sure that you’ve honed a fine set of “hands and feet” piloting skills and decision making abilities in your current job that you use each and every day. I hope you take pride in that. The edge can tend to come off some of those hard earned skills over time in the airline world. With modern airliners, it can be easy to end up becoming nothing more than a systems monitor on a robotic transportation device if you allow it.
Good luck to all.

On point.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:34 am**

Air North is not essential. The only destination they serve that may be termed essential is Old Crow. The rest of their destinations are all simply convenience. You can drive everywhere they fly to on a scheduled basis except Old Crow.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:20 am**

pelmet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:16 pm
ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:11 pm
I can also see Flair and Swoop having a hard time because of this... with their prices they need excellent load-factors, and that's not going to happen if people need to save their pennies to pay off debt incurred by this whole shit-show.
I disagree, low cost carriers are the ones who are least impacted by events like this as people still want to travel but don't want to spend much money so book on the low cost carriers instead.
Just booked a flight on Swoop from one side of the country to the other in May.....Under 100 dollars return, including tax. Never even heard of under 100 dollars for a 1 way ticket.

A fool and his money is easily parted. So you could have bought a ticket on AC or WestJet at a great discount right now to I imagine, probably not $100. But you probably won’t even get to take the Swoop flight, where as you would with the other two. Do you know why tickets that cheap don’t exist-because it’s unsustainable.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:27 am**

CaptainHaddock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:20 am
pelmet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:16 pm
ehv8oar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:11 pm

I disagree, low cost carriers are the ones who are least impacted by events like this as people still want to travel but don't want to spend much money so book on the low cost carriers instead.
Just booked a flight on Swoop from one side of the country to the other in May.....Under 100 dollars return, including tax. Never even heard of under 100 dollars for a 1 way ticket.
A fool and his money is easily parted. So you could have bought a ticket on AC or WestJet at a great discount right now to I imagine, probably not $100. But you probably won’t even get to take the Swoop flight, where as you would with the other two. Do you know why tickets that cheap don’t exist-because it’s unsustainable.

Fool maybe...but it is only 100 bucks so if I don't get it back, I'll survive. If they cancel...or I cancel, theoretically I should get the money back. Just checked WJ(from a nearby bigger airport) and AC at $585 return which is the same price I have been paying for the same route purchased a couple of months ahead(no discount). And, I checked AC for a flight today on a short haul less than 1 hour flight today...$445 dollars.

So let the smart guys fly at the same old high price last minute tickets. This fool is going to take a chance. If the Swoop flight is gone, the WJ flight may be gone as well.

P.S. Noticed some $29 one-way transcan fares on Swoop as well.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:33 pm**

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:29 pm**

Sunwing now operating flights as usual till mar23 - then nothing.
The only saving grace for them is that summer is the slow season anyway. May help the sting a little.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:54 pm**

boeingboy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:29 pm Sunwing now operating flights as usual till mar23

The cancellation of southbound flights (with passengers) starts tomorrow. The way the internal memo was worded about schedule cancellations was a bit confusing, but reading this article, it now makes sense.

https://ca.travelpulse.com/news/impacti ... sible.html

"Sunwing is cancelling all southbound flights from March 17th until April 9th, 2020 and focusing on repatriating customers in destination."

Empty flights will still be going south, but they'll come home full.

Edit: All pilots and F/A's just received their layoff notices. Last day of operations is March 23rd.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:38 pm**

pelmet wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:27 am
CaptainHaddock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:20 am
pelmet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:16 pm

Just booked a flight on Swoop from one side of the country to the other in May.....Under 100 dollars return, including tax. Never even heard of under 100 dollars for a 1 way ticket.
A fool and his money is easily parted. So you could have bought a ticket on AC or WestJet at a great discount right now to I imagine, probably not $100. But you probably won’t even get to take the Swoop flight, where as you would with the other two. Do you know why tickets that cheap don’t exist-because it’s unsustainable.
Fool maybe...but it is only 100 bucks so if I don't get it back, I'll survive. If they cancel...or I cancel, theoretically I should get the money back. Just checked WJ(from a nearby bigger airport) and AC at $585 return which is the same price I have been paying for the same route purchased a couple of months ahead(no discount). And, I checked AC for a flight today on a short haul less than 1 hour flight today...$445 dollars.

So let the smart guys fly at the same old high price last minute tickets. This fool is going to take a chance. If the Swoop flight is gone, the WJ flight may be gone as well.

P.S. Noticed some $29 one-way transcan fares on Swoop as well.

What's the cost on getting the Coronavirus

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:50 pm**

: 6E9B312A-65A5-4F7F-8388-0E9E938A1143_1_201_a.jpeg (218.36 KiB) Viewed 4140 times

Sent to me by an acquaintance at Sunwing. Savage doesn't even begin to describe it.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:17 pm**

flashheart wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:38 pm
pelmet wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:27 am
CaptainHaddock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:20 am

A fool and his money is easily parted. So you could have bought a ticket on AC or WestJet at a great discount right now to I imagine, probably not $100. But you probably won’t even get to take the Swoop flight, where as you would with the other two. Do you know why tickets that cheap don’t exist-because it’s unsustainable.
Fool maybe...but it is only 100 bucks so if I don't get it back, I'll survive. If they cancel...or I cancel, theoretically I should get the money back. Just checked WJ(from a nearby bigger airport) and AC at $585 return which is the same price I have been paying for the same route purchased a couple of months ahead(no discount). And, I checked AC for a flight today on a short haul less than 1 hour flight today...$445 dollars.

So let the smart guys fly at the same old high price last minute tickets. This fool is going to take a chance. If the Swoop flight is gone, the WJ flight may be gone as well.

P.S. Noticed some $29 one-way transcan fares on Swoop as well.
What's the cost on getting the Coronavirus

Probably the same no matter what airline you get it on...or bus...or....restaurant....etc.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:53 pm**

Savage doesn't even begin to describe it.

Seriously????
..And just what are they supposed to do. Pay everyone to do nothing and let the company die?

Sunwing has no domestic service. They only exist to service they vacation properties they own. Summer time is slow season and they usually have only 8 or 9 planes on a very reduced schedule all summer. With no-one traveling, cancellations up the ying yang, and booking down 50% or more, plus just about every country closing their boarders - It was the smartest thing to do. Shut down the airline to a very minimal operation to save cash and wait out the storm.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:52 pm**

And don't they send a ton of pilots to Europe in the summer?

They were going to be really fat on pilots very quickly. I can understand why they did what they did.

Posted: **Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:18 pm**

boeingboy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:53 pm
Savage doesn't even begin to describe it.
Seriously????
..And just what are they supposed to do. Pay everyone to do nothing and let the company die?

I said it was savage, not wrong.

Tell me honestly that even 1 month ago anyone would have envisioned the events of the past 10 days. Laying off an entire company of pilots (and other employees) all at once has never occurred in this industry outside of a company shutdown post 9/11.

Posted: **Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:17 am**

What music are you talking about?

The "super stable" airline industry?

Time to put away your document booklet and get a real job.

Grab a seat. The music is stopping

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