Who else enjoys the opposition making an ass of themselves?

[2R]

SORE LOSERS

[costermonger]

Now Harper was what, a dozen seats away from his majority? All the chips are on the table here, if this coalition fails, how much more support is the conservative party going to receive?

Honestly? I think this is probably the high water mark for Harper, unless he gets to run against Dion again, or the Liberals manage to find somebody even worse to replace him. I think that if the coalition survives long enough for the Liberals to install a new leader before an election (so June-ish), it's very possible Stephen Harper's already run his last campaign as the leader of the CPC.

[Sheila]

Basically, the Libs are desperate not to lose the funding to political parties, or more seats and that's how this coalition formed. They are "masters" at making agreements but it will be nice to see them squirm when they have no authority to implement it and it gets burned.

Anyway, Stephen Harper is kind of working, "cutting spending" is actually being careful. It is a wise thing to do but there is lots of money in EI. He should help the people in trouble.

[Northern Skies]

This was not caused by Stephen Harper or Flaherty's economic update.

This action has been in the works for a long time and has been waiting for an opportune moment to be sprung. It is nothing more than the left selling themselves and the rest of Canada out to Quebec so that they gain power. Greed and corruption are the only motives for this coalition, and they will walk all over canadians for it.

Who actually sees merit in throwing billions of dollars at failing businesses without thinking it through first? Do we want to throw our money away and spend a third of our taxes on the deficit's interest for the next decade? NO! If I want to do that, I'll take out my own loan thanks.....

I've even worked out my own personal deal with the auto industry. I won't give them my money, and they won't give me a crappy vehicle. The government can stay out of that.

[Topspin]

Now Harper was what, a dozen seats away from his majority? All the chips are on the table here, if this coalition fails, how much more support is the conservative party going to receive?

Honestly? I think this is probably the high water mark for Harper, unless he gets to run against Dion again, or the Liberals manage to find somebody even worse to replace him. I think that if the coalition survives long enough for the Liberals to install a new leader before an election (so June-ish), it's very possible Stephen Harper's already run his last campaign as the leader of the CPC.

I agree Harper is likely finished as Conservative leader. Let's hope for somebody a little more reasonable like Peter MacKay. That being said...what do you believe the chances of success are for this, "coalition?" Failure will destroy liberal support, I can't see any other end game result. I think that the conservatives stand to gain either way, so Harper can play any card he wants, regardless of how radical. The confidence vote will show much.

However;
From the conservative party, singing Oh Canada within parliament, do you expect him to lose support?
At the opposite end, I see no possible way that this thing could have been kept so secret if the Liberal/New Dictatorship Party MP's were in the loop....how much support is the left going to bleed? All those Liberal voters that don't support this madness, where are they going to go?

Hedley was most likely accurate in predicting parliamentary gridlock, which means.......election. So the short term result likely doesn't matter at all, and if they fail in this misguided power grab, what happens then?

[Topspin]

"The CONs are there as a minority and are acting undemocratically, thinking that 37.63% of support from Canadians absolves them from consultation with the other parties in national decisions that affect all Canadians."

HOW can Harper act "undemocratically" in a minority Parliament???

And the voices of Canadians ARE being heard. Harper proposed legislation, the opposition pissed on it, and so Harper has REVISED THE LEGISLATION to meet their concerns (to some degree at least). Just as happened MANY times during the last Parliament, when the Conservatives modified legislation in order to gain the acceptance of the House.

So why do they insist on continuing with this farce of a proposed coalition? Harper has backed down. Why haven't they?

There is no justification for the place we find ourselves in today, and at this point it is the Opposition who is to blame.

You surprise me. However my opinion differs.

Harper is responsible in some way/shape/form for creating this. To many blows below the belt, and this was the last straw. However, the two stooges have ousted him as biggest idiot in Ottawa.

[Rockie]

(Lib/Ndp/Bloc) have a common goal of wanting to work together

Holy sh1t, that's funny!

What they have in common is a raw, almost sexual need
for POWER.

They have significant, irreconcilable differences in policies and
objectives, in case you haven't noticed!

No kidding. Jack Layton's erection the past week has been bigger than he is.

[niss]

So were the hardcore conservatives here for or against the no confidence motion put forward by Harper when he was leader of the opposition that caused the 2006 election?

How about when he was in the sack with the Bloc and NDP trying signing a letter indicating they were considering a coaliton?

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/11/28/a-tr ... mory-lane/

Apparantly its only wrong when anyone but the conservative party do it?

Anyone who thinks this is undemocratic, a coup, or whatever is an idiot. Clearly you do not know how either a Parlimentary form of gov't works, how a democracy works, or would just like a conservative dictatorship.

Don't forget 60% of the voters voted not conservative, but you think that a party suported by the minority of the voters, being ousted by the parties supported by the majority of voters is undemocratic? Give your head a shake.

[Rockie]

When Harper suggested a coalition with the Bloc a few years ago it was just as bad an idea as it is today. I'm not at all against a vote of non-confidence provided it only leads to an election. If you think the people who didn't vote for Harper last election intended, or support this coalition then you're as delusional as Dion/Layton/Duceppe. The pathetic results they showed individually in the last election cannot be added up to become support for them as the government.

Give your own head a shake. What do you think the results would be in an election with the Conservatives or this ridiculous coalition as the only two choices? Do you really think anyone outside Quebec would support it? Does anyone want Dion as PM when the country and his own party just rejected him? Does anyone want Layton anywhere near the country's finances? Does anyone besides a separatist want the Bloc dictating terms to a dish rag like Dion? Are you not offended yourself by the Liberals and NDP enlisting a group of separatists to bring down a duly elected government? And lastly, do you think Dion/Layton/Duceppe can possibly do a better job of steering this country through this financial crisis than Harper?

Harper was unquestionably stupid and brought about this fiasco himself, but he's vastly superior to those other three clowns. If those morons truly think they have the support of Canadians then let them call another election with them on the ballot.

[Dust Devil]

So were the hardcore conservatives here for or against the no confidence motion put forward by Harper when he was leader of the opposition that caused the 2006 election?

Although I don't consider myself a hardcore conservative a non confidence vote is fair game

How about when he was in the sack with the Bloc and NDP trying signing a letter indicating they were considering a coaliton?

It was just as wrong then as it is now.

[Hedley]

If you think the people who didn't vote for Harper last election intended, or support this coalition then you're as delusional as Dion/Layton/Duceppe

I would tend to agree with you, Rockie, but the point is that the
Liberals, Bloc and NDP members were elected fair and square,
and until the next election, they represent their ridings.

Life is just like this with a minority government. The threat of
another election looms every day, and until that happens, we
can reasonably expect alliances and coalitions to be formed
and broken.

If the Conservative minority goverment loses a confidence
vote, I see no reason why an alternative government could
not be selected to run the country, especially so soon after
the last election.

[niss]

When Harper suggested a coalition with the Bloc a few years ago it was just as bad an idea as it is today. I'm not at all against a vote of non-confidence provided it only leads to an election. If you think the people who didn't vote for Harper last election intended, or support this coalition then you're as delusional as Dion/Layton/Duceppe. The pathetic results they showed individually in the last election cannot be added up to become support for them as the government.

Give your own head a shake. What do you think the results would be in an election with the Conservatives or this ridiculous coalition as the only two choices? Do you really think anyone outside Quebec would support it? Does anyone want Dion as PM when the country and his own party just rejected him? Does anyone want Layton anywhere near the country's finances? Does anyone besides a separatist want the Bloc dictating terms to a dish rag like Dion? Are you not offended yourself by the Liberals and NDP enlisting a group of separatists to bring down a duly elected government? And lastly, do you think Dion/Layton/Duceppe can possibly do a better job of steering this country through this financial crisis than Harper?

Harper was unquestionably stupid and brought about this fiasco himself, but he's vastly superior to those other three clowns. If those morons truly think they have the support of Canadians then let them call another election with them on the ballot.

My point was against the Harper fear mongering, and accusations that this is treason, etc.

Harper has been slandering this coalition as undemocratic and his supporters have been falling into the rhetoric. How short are the conservative supporters memories? If this isn't the pot calling the kettle a schvartze then I don't know what is.

[Rockie]

Niss

Finger pointing and pots calling kettles black isn't going to save us from the future. We need to ensure we have a government in place that is capable of steering Canada throught the next 18 months of economic disaster. If those three morons get in power then another political crisis is surely only a short time away, but not before they cause disasterous further damage to our country. What will we gain? What will we lose?

Hedley

We either need those idiots in Ottawa to just get back to work, or we need another election right now. It is much, much cheaper than what this coalition will do to us.

[xsbank]

Harper has prorogued parliament! Suck it up, Stooges!!

[Morav]

What a relief!

[Sulako]

Yeah, it sure is nice to live in a dictatorship where a party that got 38% of the vote can hold the other 62% hostage.

As far as I can tell, the NDP and Libs represent more of the people than the Conservatives, so I'm not sure what the conservative definition of 'democracy' is. The NDP and Libs weren't breaking any laws, and in fact they were working within the framework of parliament when they set up this deal. It's the Conservatives who are disregarding the will of the people, but that's hardly anything new.

You do realize this means that parliament won't get any work done for the next 7 weeks, which happens to be right in the middle of the worst economic crisis we have seen in generations. Thanks Stephen!

[Hedley]

parliament won't get any work done for the next 7 weeks

... which just goes to show that every black cloud has a silver lining

I can't think of a better Christmas gift for the Canadian taxpayer,
than to have the government stop spending money!

[iflyforpie]

I would take a dictatorship to steer us through tough times rather than a coalition that gives the NDP and the Bloc veto power and is about as stable as nitro-glycerin.

The Conservatives cut the GST by 2% well before an economic crisis, something the Liberals promised and failed to do for over 10 years. And the opposition parties don't really care about the economy, they care about making the governing party look bad to increase their own approval.

The uniting factor for the opposition parties was Harper's stupid idea of taking away the voter subsidy. If Harper hadn't done that, there would be no coalition and no proroguing of parliament. But now to increase their power they've forced Harper's hand and if they do get in, they've doomed us all to political bickering instead of decisive action.

Coalition government better for Canada? Maybe. The Canucks might win the Stanley cup this year too.

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

A coalition - outside of war or extreme duress - is inexcusable.

Non-confidence vote or coalition, the bottom line is another election within six months. An election only the Conservatives can easily afford.

[Hedley]

A coalition ... is inexcusable

I have to agree with you that the odds of this particular "coalition"
functioning is right up there with me getting "cold fusion" working
this afternoon ....

And the Lib/Bloc/NDP coalition probably would be a disastrous
government for the taxpayer ....

But the fact remains that the Lib/Bloc/NDP combined, were
elected by the Canadian voters with enough seats to form a
majority government (yech).

You might not personally like the outcome of the democratic
system. But you have to respect it, otherwise we live in a
Banana Republic.

[Rockie]

Yeah, it sure is nice to live in a dictatorship where a party that got 38% of the vote can hold the other 62% hostage.

As far as I can tell, the NDP and Libs represent more of the people than the Conservatives, so I'm not sure what the conservative definition of 'democracy' is. The NDP and Libs weren't breaking any laws, and in fact they were working within the framework of parliament when they set up this deal. It's the Conservatives who are disregarding the will of the people, but that's hardly anything new.

You do realize this means that parliament won't get any work done for the next 7 weeks, which happens to be right in the middle of the worst economic crisis we have seen in generations. Thanks Stephen!

A) Parliament wasn't working anyway.
B) That doesn't mean the duly elected government won't get any work done. They will do plenty in the next 7 weeks.
C) If you think the other morons would get anything done besides destroying what's left of our economy you're smoking some bad dope.


Why is it people think a group of people who lost the election have a moral right to band together and replace the government? They can defeat it, but replacing it is not what their paltry election results justifies them to do.

[costermonger]

I agree Harper is likely finished as Conservative leader. Let's hope for somebody a little more reasonable like Peter MacKay. That being said...what do you believe the chances of success are for this, "coalition?" Failure will destroy liberal support, I can't see any other end game result. I think that the conservatives stand to gain either way, so Harper can play any card he wants, regardless of how radical. The confidence vote will show much.

The Liberals are in an interesting position in that they've got a guy at the helm who's already on his way out, no ifs/ands or buts. A built in fall guy - if this blows up in their face, it was Dions fault (whether that's remotely accurate or not). If it lasts long enough for them to elect a new leader (which seems pretty likely with the prorogation of parliament), as long as he/she can campaign his/her way out of a wet paper bag, Harper's in for a very tough campaign if he's still in charge of the CPC.

The whole poison pill twoonie per vote thing is a big win for everybody else even though he's backed off - under the auspices of saving money, he wanted to eliminate a source of cashflow to the opposition, but he never made mention of revoking the 75% donation tax credit that probably costs us just as much money, but benefits the CPC more than anybody else. That's a blindly partisan move that's only partially responsible for what we've got now, but it's a big deal from the perspective of an election campaign - again, provided the Liberals have somebody who's effective enough on the campaign to stay on the offensive.

However;
From the conservative party, singing Oh Canada within parliament, do you expect him to lose support?

I'd say that Harper's ability to control his party in the media (for the most part) has been the key to his success, but it's also made sure anybody who might be waiting in the wings for a reason to oppose him is being pretty quiet about it. As long as Harper's the PM, we're probably not going to hear so much as a peep of dissent from the CPC, but rest assured, being a political party, there are people within the Conservative Party that don't like how this has gone down, and will challenge Harper's leadership if the government falls.

At the opposite end, I see no possible way that this thing could have been kept so secret if the Liberal/New Dictatorship Party MP's were in the loop....how much support is the left going to bleed? All those Liberal voters that don't support this madness, where are they going to go?

According to the polls I've seen, if there's a large body of Liberal support in opposition to this idea, they're making up the losses from elsewhere. Most people don't like Dion, but that's nothing new - support for what they're doing is apparently around the same level as the support for the party.

Hedley was most likely accurate in predicting parliamentary gridlock, which means.......election. So the short term result likely doesn't matter at all, and if they fail in this misguided power grab, what happens then?

That's a good question. Probably depends on why it fails, and who's taking the blame. But if somehow the NDP/Liberal portion of the accord stays intact, and they agree to only run one candidate between them (ie stop splitting the left) in the next election, even a failed coalition probably won't result in a Conservative Majority.

Unless somebody like Peter McKay takes over and runs on a promise of not being divisive.

[xsbank]

I think this whole thing is like seducing your sister-in-law's daughter - its not illegal, but its disgusting.

[FL410]

I don't understand why everyone keeps bringing up the argument that the Conservatives received less than 50% support in the election, and therefore don't deserve to be in power. It happens to be the way our FPTP system works, so maybe the better question to be asking instead of trying to form a coalition would be if Canada should change to proportional representation?

Chretien got a MAJORITY in 1997 with 38.5% of the vote (1% more than Harper got to win a minority this year), but that is never brought up. Instead the anti-Harper crowd uses every excuse they can, no matter how incorrect it may be.

[Icebound]

..


Prorogueing parliament to hide from a non-confidence vote, is an undemocratic precedent that is going to cause huge problems in the future.



...