It's a good point and I do agree with you.
I'm not a pilot, but I do work with the safety of the airline every day. For me, the commitment to safety is a core principle that has no room for compromise.
Now, let's not forget the difference between talking about safety and living it.
Pilots are by no means the only ones focused on it and not the only ones who also fail to pay the proper respect to the concept.
US Airways Pilot Sues Flight Attendants Who Spoke up Over Safety
http://www.itourist.com/members/blog/vi ... r%20Safety
Passengers stop flight after 'drunk' pilot sparks panic
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 651516.ece
Alleged Drunk Pilot Arrested
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/ ... 6964.shtml
WTF!!!!!
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Re: WTF!!!!!
It doesn't really matter now does it.. lets just sit back hav a drink an relax. Enjoy the weather and we will see what they roll out next time.
The force will be with you, always
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Rotten Apple #1
- Rank 8
- Posts: 915
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:34 am
Re: WTF!!!!!
Ahhh yes. 'One Offs'. Not that handy for establishing a valid point, but boy do they add color!
M.E., I wasn't trying to bust your balls. The fact is that you may have safety as a core principle, but we pro pilots intentionally and repeatedly annunciate and regurgitate safety at every step of the way.
Exemplo Gratia: I probably could safely takeoff in an NG with frost on the wings. Probably. I choose not to save the 'not insignificant' cost associated with the trip to the deicing bay to deice the aircaft. Safety has to be the first thought for the pilots up front. Then we can talk profitability. It's what we live and breathe, and it's never assumed, regardless of how obvious one may find it.
One other point before I take leave. At times we pilots may seem a tad emotional or 'strong' in our point of view. One could explain this partly by the fact that most of us will either retire working for WJ, or be turning out the lights as we shut the place down.
Business managers like yourself, on the other hand, are not handcuffed to the corporation like the professional pilots are. The skills you are learning at WJ are transferrable to any number of companies, with a great number of them located in the town or city you live in. And I can guarantee you that whatever pay cut you took to come here from AC, it is peanuts compared to what the majority of pilots face when heading to the bottom of a list at another company (save for 'see the world' contracts)
But hey. Good to have you working with us...
Jonny
M.E., I wasn't trying to bust your balls. The fact is that you may have safety as a core principle, but we pro pilots intentionally and repeatedly annunciate and regurgitate safety at every step of the way.
Exemplo Gratia: I probably could safely takeoff in an NG with frost on the wings. Probably. I choose not to save the 'not insignificant' cost associated with the trip to the deicing bay to deice the aircaft. Safety has to be the first thought for the pilots up front. Then we can talk profitability. It's what we live and breathe, and it's never assumed, regardless of how obvious one may find it.
One other point before I take leave. At times we pilots may seem a tad emotional or 'strong' in our point of view. One could explain this partly by the fact that most of us will either retire working for WJ, or be turning out the lights as we shut the place down.
Business managers like yourself, on the other hand, are not handcuffed to the corporation like the professional pilots are. The skills you are learning at WJ are transferrable to any number of companies, with a great number of them located in the town or city you live in. And I can guarantee you that whatever pay cut you took to come here from AC, it is peanuts compared to what the majority of pilots face when heading to the bottom of a list at another company (save for 'see the world' contracts)
But hey. Good to have you working with us...
Jonny
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Letterhead
- Rank 1
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:06 am
Re: WTF!!!!!
JD:
Pilots impose the bottom of the list seniority thing on each other, not management. If you have a complaint about the idiocy of the work structure at most airlines look in the mirror and then look left or right (depending on your seat). You boys do it to each other. The first thing most pilots want to do at a start-up is set-up a seniority list which prevents labour mobility and ultimately depresses their wages and working conditions. Frankly, management likes when you do this (despite their protestations to the contrary) because it keeps you in your place ("handcuffed," as you put it).
The skills pilots bring to the table are specific, but nevertheless transferable to other air operators. However, pilots prefer to distort the pilot labour market, by destroying any free market for their services (Captains in particular).
One last observation, most North American airline pilots that get furloughed are more than happy to head to the middle east and elsewhere for a direct entry captain job, but would scream bloody murder if the same thing were permitted at their airline.
In the airline environment it is a stretch to call pilots "professionals" they are simply unionized workers (in poorly tailored outfits), with an inability to transfer their skills in an open labour market. A doctor, lawyer or an accountant can pick-up their tools and go to work elsewhere. Pilots cannot. You are trapped within your present circumstances.
Pilots impose the bottom of the list seniority thing on each other, not management. If you have a complaint about the idiocy of the work structure at most airlines look in the mirror and then look left or right (depending on your seat). You boys do it to each other. The first thing most pilots want to do at a start-up is set-up a seniority list which prevents labour mobility and ultimately depresses their wages and working conditions. Frankly, management likes when you do this (despite their protestations to the contrary) because it keeps you in your place ("handcuffed," as you put it).
The skills pilots bring to the table are specific, but nevertheless transferable to other air operators. However, pilots prefer to distort the pilot labour market, by destroying any free market for their services (Captains in particular).
One last observation, most North American airline pilots that get furloughed are more than happy to head to the middle east and elsewhere for a direct entry captain job, but would scream bloody murder if the same thing were permitted at their airline.
In the airline environment it is a stretch to call pilots "professionals" they are simply unionized workers (in poorly tailored outfits), with an inability to transfer their skills in an open labour market. A doctor, lawyer or an accountant can pick-up their tools and go to work elsewhere. Pilots cannot. You are trapped within your present circumstances.
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tonysoprano
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2589
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:01 pm
Re: WTF!!!!!
Letterhead.
You got balls dude. Not too smart, but you got balls.
Any details on the agreements? Or is there another gag order?
You got balls dude. Not too smart, but you got balls.
Any details on the agreements? Or is there another gag order?
Re: WTF!!!!!
snip etc.Letterhead wrote:JD:
Pilots impose the bottom of the list seniority thing on each other, not management...
Excellent post. Nail hit squarely on the head of why pilots are their own worst enemies.
