How Low Will You Go?

[crazy woman]

My dream job..... to fly for WestJet,
I'm 29, with my fingers crossed sitting on reserve waiting for a lay off, strike, or bankruptcy.

[FICU]

Maybe you should educate yourself before you show us all what an ignorant asshat you really are.

Didn't take long for the slander to come out... you are jasta so predictable.

Thanks again for your contribution to this discussion!

[Jastapilot]

Sure seemed to have touched a nerve.

I have never said Westjet wasn't a successful airline. They have done very well and I know many people there, some happy and some looking elsewhere to work.

My whole point in this is that since Westjet came into the market not only have prices dropped but so has service and onboard product on Canada's two largest airlines. Your initial wages also dropped the standard of the profession across the country and made way for jokes like JetsGo to enter the market. Prior to Westjet's arrival did large airlines force their employees to either move to one city or make them pay for their hotel and meals while doing the initial training? Did you get paid your full F/O salary while you were doing your initial training or just a fraction of it?

Where are we today? Air Canada's entry level salary is $35,000. Sunwing forces new hires to pay a bond. Canjet pays Boeing Captains $80,000. Are you happy with that?

I'm glad you guys were able to improve your compensation and good luck with the new contract but ultimately, since Westjet's arrival on the scene, this industry has taken steps backwards in many areas.

I was treated like a professional should be treated when I was hired... it didn't cost me a cent, I received full salary, and I am paid very well but thanks to Westjet that may change in the future as might the the level of service and quality of onboard product my company offers to it's passengers. Like I said... backwards steps... thanks.

So, tell me where did you contribute anything but blaming Westjet for every problem in the airline industry? Explain yourself, or can you?

[FICU]

Have I made it all up?

Is it not true that low cost, no frills carriers have changed the face of the airline industry worldwide with reduced onboard product and quality of service while at the same time bringing down wages among other things like "pay your own way" during initial training?

Did Westjet not enter the Canadian market as a low cost carrier and change the airline industry as we know it? Is Westjet not trying to push the LCC model into markets served by more traditional airlines?

Tell me, who else is there to blame for the current situation in Canada?

Sure, thanks to Westjet, more people are flying today but what has Westjet done to improve our industry with regards to pilots and flight attendants?

BTW... we have had several Westjet F/As join us and they are quite happy to be taking home much larger paycheques. Isn't that a good thing?

[Jastapilot]

Explain how Jetsgo was Westjet's fault? When did Westjet force new hires in to 30G training bonds? When did Westjet expand at a rate that couldn't possibly be sustainable with completely ridiculous fare prices that always sold seats at a loss?

Explain how it's bad that LCC's have trimmed the disgusting fat that the legacy's have been accumulating over the years? How is it the LCC's fault that THEY are offering a product that people want? Is it the LCC's fault that because of their lower fares, more people than ever have the ability to fly? Don't you think the legacy carriers would be profitable if the majority of people truly wanted First Class and Business Class pricing?

Westjet pilots from day one have consistently had some of the highest total compensation around. Prove otherwise. Maybe the average paycheck wasn't huge, but the profit sharing, options, and ESP more than tipped the scales.

As for who to blame, I'll blame the idiots who don't see the forest for the trees and insist on telling the customer what they want instead of the other way around. If you fall in to that category, then I'm sorry for you. Sorry you're an idiot. If you can't see the change happen in front of your face you deserve the same fate as the rest of the dinosaurs.

[FICU]

More slander jasta... grow up... you wasted your time on that post as this is my last response to you.

Have a nice day.

[bmc]

Like it or not, the LCC model from an airline perspective is brilliant. It has proven that an airline can be profitable and it grows the market, something all airlines have been trying to do for years. Furthermore, and most significantly, the traveling public supports this model. To grow from 3 airplanes to 80 in 10 years in a country that could not support two full service airlines (CP and AC) is not only indicative of sound management but of consumer support. It is not a fad that will disappear. I would argue that it should be applauded by northern carriers as your opportunity to trim and realize some cost savings as your traveling public moves to accepting this type of travel.

Costco introduced a perception of value by welcoming consumers into warehouses to do their shopping. Because products were packaged in bulk, it was a deceptive way to get people to buy more product, sold in unusual sizes to not be able to validate a cost saving. The perception of no frills shopping required large parking lots at these stores to meet consumer demand. Hanging on to the Birks model of shopping has increasingly limited appeal.

The good old days of full service exists in few markets globally. They exist with large network airlines with solid hubs in Europe and Asia. The US model of airline service has moved into Canada. And now, it has reached Great Slave Lake. Slamming WJ will not win. Being a better airline at a competitive price poiunt will.

FICU...your airline will have to change. Your passengers will not accept paying higher prices for a hot meal on a two hour sector. Airline meals don't cost more that $10 each to an airline. Give them the meal, make the airline a truly northern experience that is unique and not generic and you may maintain market share. Slamming people for misleading airline loads is not the issue. Watching your customers cross the ramp to the competition is. If they believe they have been paying too much for too long, you are going to have to spend a lot of money trying to buy them back. On the otherhand, if you have a loyal customer base, thank them, protect them and mnake them feel loved. If they agree with you that your service proposition is the best, you have nothing to be concerned about.

[Flightlevels]

Sure seemed to have touched a nerve.

I have never said Westjet wasn't a successful airline. They have done very well and I know many people there, some happy and some looking elsewhere to work.

My whole point in this is that since Westjet came into the market not only have prices dropped but so has service and onboard product on Canada's two largest airlines. Your initial wages also dropped the standard of the profession across the country and made way for jokes like JetsGo to enter the market. Prior to Westjet's arrival did large airlines force their employees to either move to one city or make them pay for their hotel and meals while doing the initial training? Did you get paid your full F/O salary while you were doing your initial training or just a fraction of it?

Where are we today? Air Canada's entry level salary is $35,000. Sunwing forces new hires to pay a bond. Canjet pays Boeing Captains $80,000. Are you happy with that?

I'm glad you guys were able to improve your compensation and good luck with the new contract but ultimately, since Westjet's arrival on the scene, this industry has taken steps backwards in many areas.

I was treated like a professional should be treated when I was hired... it didn't cost me a cent, I received full salary, and I am paid very well but thanks to Westjet that may change in the future as might the the level of service and quality of onboard product my company offers to it's passengers. Like I said... backwards steps... thanks.

OK here's the holes and believe me you come far from touching my nerve because I don't really care about your topic or it's optics. Since westjet came to the market it's true prices have dropped because that was the plan to stimulate traffic that otherwise wouldn't fly. We weren't the largest airline back then and we still aren't even as big as Jazz. The initial wages for pilots are amongst the best and with the new agreement with an FO starting at 50 plus esp and profit share second year goes to 60 plus plus. Seems like many FO jobs can't compare. We never "Forced" you to move and you are provided lunch in our fancy new cafeteria with full pay when you start. can you provide proof other than Tim Morgan saying" I don't like commuters" We have day one pilots that have commuted their whole career here.
Don't bring other airlines faults into the picture. You are after all saying we are the leading ones to the bottom. Our hiring team is the best in the country and treats every individual like a professional from the interview to follow ups to the initial ground school. backwards steps like not getting a meal is what your argument is based on. Pretty weak. Don't forget that when we started we had no entertainment on board or no food available. now we have both and are expanding the service levels of both. Things like new bigger tv screens and seats and internet will be coming down the pipe. things like a selection of snacks and sandwiches, things like an auto upload of routes and weight and balance numbers that automatically bug your v speeds and de rate the engines for the most cost effective flight. Backwards steps?....I think it's progressive and it's a free market to fly anywhere we want. If it can better our bottom line than good on us. You can't please everyone and everyone has their own list of important priorities. If your airline provides them with their agenda. then good on them for moving and not being unhappy here.....sounds progressive to me contrary to your thoughts....thanks.

[FICU]

The initial wages for pilots are amongst the best and with the new agreement... We never "Forced" you to move and you are provided lunch in our fancy new cafeteria with full pay when you start.

I believe initial Westjet F/O wages were $40K to start... correct me if I'm wrong. Forget options(stock value driven) and ESP because other airlines have great pension plans... Do you not think $40K was a big step back in terms of B737 wages? You are now at $50K 13 or 14 years later... do you think that you have been treated fair?

You don't force a move but you force the new hire to pay their own hotel or accommodations if they don't move... is that not a step back from the previous industry standard for a B737 or similar F/O? It's a huge step back from what I went through when I was hired.

Our hiring team is the best in the country and treats every individual like a professional from the interview to follow ups to the initial ground school. backwards steps like not getting a meal is what your argument is based on. Pretty weak.

Again... should a professional have to pay for their own accommodations when they make it to a jet airline job? My argument is not just based on meals... how much does a month or 2 of hotels or rent in Calgary remove from your pockets just so you can join Westjet? I'm happy to see you get full pay at least.

Things like new bigger tv screens and seats and internet will be coming down the pipe.... things like an auto upload of routes and weight and balance numbers that automatically bug your v speeds and de rate the engines for the most cost effective flight. Backwards steps?....

Will the use of the internet be an onboard charge? Will the entire jet be equipped with bigger seats or just a certain percentage and will those seats cost more over the standard seats? Now, if a customer could have the choice of a hot gourmet meal on the flight from Vancouver to Toronto or a bigger TV screen what do they think they would choose?

Us neanderthals have to actually figure out what reduced thrust numbers to use and move our bugs by hand... oh the horror! Obviously operating new NGs with fancy toys is not a step backwards but that was never part of my argument.

[Jastapilot]

Damn, I knew a guy just like you when I lived in YZF.

[Flightlevels]

The initial wages for pilots are amongst the best and with the new agreement... We never "Forced" you to move and you are provided lunch in our fancy new cafeteria with full pay when you start.

I believe initial Westjet F/O wages were $40K to start... correct me if I'm wrong. Forget options(stock value driven) and ESP because other airlines have great pension plans... Do you not think $40K was a big step back in terms of B737 wages? You are now at $50K 13 or 14 years later... do you think that you have been treated fair?

- 40 to start and over the years as we grew we improved it. it use to be lower than 40. In the new agreement it's 50 base period. = progressive yes it's fair or the pilot's wouldn't have voted for it...
- other airlines with the best pension plans are insolvent the return on esp has been looked at generating a minimum of 13% depending when u diversify. This is better than most defined plans.


You don't force a move but you force the new hire to pay their own hotel or accommodations if they don't move... is that not a step back from the previous industry standard for a B737 or similar F/O? It's a huge step back from what I went through when I was hired.

- there ya go so you just admitted you aren't forced to move as you claimed earlier.
- the base is YYC, if you choose to live elsewhere you accept the additional cost. why should we wear the cost for your decision. You weren't solicited for the job. This btw isn't an industry standard my friend. A huge step back for you maybe but a huge step forward for most since it's a stable growing company to retire at.

Our hiring team is the best in the country and treats every individual like a professional from the interview to follow ups to the initial ground school. backwards steps like not getting a meal is what your argument is based on. Pretty weak.

Again... should a professional have to pay for their own accommodations when they make it to a jet airline job? My argument is not just based on meals... how much does a month or 2 of hotels or rent in Calgary remove from your pockets just so you can join Westjet? I'm happy to see you get full pay at least.[/quote]

- again being diligent provides a stable company that invests in priorities that make it attractive for investors and employees. The base is yyc. Ports are a priveledge and another way it's helping make lifestyles somewhat better for those who choose to live away from here...sounds progressive and it is.[/quote]

Things like new bigger tv screens and seats and internet will be coming down the pipe.... things like an auto upload of routes and weight and balance numbers that automatically bug your v speeds and de rate the engines for the most cost effective flight. Backwards steps?....

Will the use of the internet be an onboard charge? Will the entire jet be equipped with bigger seats or just a certain percentage and will those seats cost more over the standard seats? Now, if a customer could have the choice of a hot gourmet meal on the flight from Vancouver to Toronto or a bigger TV screen what do they think they would choose?[/quote]

- who knows if charges will be there. Probably and good. if it makes money we do it. It's called business. We aren't here for the fun of it. there won't be a segregation of levels of service as far as I can see. all are equal. non traditional compared to legacy carriers. But hey, we aren't a legacy carrier! btw the seats aren't going to be bigger I made a typo...just the screens.


Us neanderthals have to actually figure out what reduced thrust numbers to use and move our bugs by hand... oh the horror! Obviously operating new NGs with fancy toys is not a step backwards but that was never part of my argument.

- more room for your error in my opinion
- safer for the guest
- efficiency wins

[FICU]

- 40 to start and over the years as we grew we improved it. it use to be lower than 40. In the new agreement it's 50 base period. = progressive yes it's fair or the pilot's wouldn't have voted for it...
- other airlines with the best pension plans are insolvent the return on esp has been looked at generating a minimum of 13% depending when u diversify. This is better than most defined plans.

So do you agree that lower than 40K or 40K as little as 4 years ago for a jet airline job is a step backwards? I would hope you'd get a raise after so many years! From many pilots I know at Westjet the option scheme hurt them when the stock dropped hence the change to your compensation plan to give the pilot a broader choice. BTW... my pension plan, a self directed defined contribution plan, is doing very well since I have full control of where the money goes.

- there ya go so you just admitted you aren't forced to move as you claimed earlier.

If you don't want to pay for hotel or rent during your initial training you are forced to move. Where I'm at commuters pay their own way to stay at a base in order to operate a pairing but when training is concerned the company pays all expenses including perdiems.

- the base is YYC, if you choose to live elsewhere you accept the additional cost. why should we wear the cost for your decision.

Because you work for a successful professional airline who should not expect a new employee who is likely taking a very big paycut to start to have to pay a very large expense to be trained and indoctrinated. Sorry I don't agree with you but call me old fashioned and some who expects to be treated like a professional in the industry.

- again being diligent provides a stable company that invests in priorities that make it attractive for investors and employees. The base is yyc. Ports are a priveledge and another way it's helping make lifestyles somewhat better for those who choose to live away from here...sounds progressive and it is.

Without incorporating the port system the airline would have been in a lot of trouble with the amount of growth you've seen. The port system isn't a "favour" to the crews but is a necessity and management knows it.

- who knows if charges will be there. Probably and good. if it makes money we do it. It's called business.

Do you think people will pay another extra fee to use the internet on board? How many actually pay for the PPV moives? In all my trips on your airplanes I have made, and I have flown a lot with you, I have yet to see anyone around me use the PPV service.

- more room for your error in my opinion
- safer for the guest

So do you feel you were unsafe before all the whiz-bang technology? Was a passenger on Westjet exposed to more risk before the this?

Do you trust computers and the people who enter information into the system so much that you think doing something manually like determining thrust from a TLR and speed settings from a speedbook obsolete and less safe? ... wow!

You of all people should know that garbage in = garbage out... more room for an error to not be caught if you rely so much on automation.

[Flightlevels]

- 40 to start and over the years as we grew we improved it. it use to be lower than 40. In the new agreement it's 50 base period. = progressive yes it's fair or the pilot's wouldn't have voted for it...
- other airlines with the best pension plans are insolvent the return on esp has been looked at generating a minimum of 13% depending when u diversify. This is better than most defined plans.

So do you agree that lower than 40K or 40K as little as 4 years ago for a jet airline job is a step backwards? I would hope you'd get a raise after so many years! From many pilots I know at Westjet the option scheme hurt them when the stock dropped hence the change to your compensation plan to give the pilot a broader choice. BTW... my pension plan, a self directed defined contribution plan, is doing very well since I have full control of where the money goes.

A: nope it's followed the market, jet or not quantify so many years? some fo's are as young as 27 here. don't care about your personal pension. that's comparing dicks...after all you said westjet is drawing the industry backwards. What you fail to mention is our esp returns over the years and compare them with facts. It is way better than a defined contribution. Good for you in your investing decisions. What is blatently obvious is you can't look past year one.

- there ya go so you just admitted you aren't forced to move as you claimed earlier.

If you don't want to pay for hotel or rent during your initial training you are forced to move. Where I'm at commuters pay their own way to stay at a base in order to operate a pairing but when training is concerned the company pays all expenses including perdiems.

A: the base is calgary...no where does it say in any form on written letter head you shall and will move...what it says in the phone pre screen is you will be responsible to get yourself to and from work and at your own expense. Training is included in this. Do you agree with these terms? It's up to you the applicant. Did WJ force you to apply? weak brother.

- the base is YYC, if you choose to live elsewhere you accept the additional cost. why should we wear the cost for your decision.

Because you work for a successful professional airline who should not expect a new employee who is likely taking a very big paycut to start to have to pay a very large expense to be trained and indoctrinated. Sorry I don't agree with you but call me old fashioned and some who expects to be treated like a professional in the industry.

A: We are successful because of stuff like this. Who cares about the "likely pay cut" some are unemployed that we hire. That's the key...we are hiring! even in this recession...who else is??? it is old fashioned thinking.

- again being diligent provides a stable company that invests in priorities that make it attractive for investors and employees. The base is yyc. Ports are a priveledge and another way it's helping make lifestyles somewhat better for those who choose to live away from here...sounds progressive and it is.

Without incorporating the port system the airline would have been in a lot of trouble with the amount of growth you've seen. The port system isn't a "favour" to the crews but is a necessity and management knows it.

A: ok yup they know it....can you provide the proof? If they are sooo spectacular better things/improvements or deletions would have happened a long time ago my friend. still a very progressive move trying them. yup leading right to the bottom....not.

- who knows if charges will be there. Probably and good. if it makes money we do it. It's called business.

Do you think people will pay another extra fee to use the internet on board? How many actually pay for the PPV moives? In all my trips on your airplanes I have made, and I have flown a lot with you, I have yet to see anyone around me use the PPV service.

A: absolutely A: tons on long flights. A: try a hawaii flight sometime btw we wouldn't have em if it didn't work by now...

- more room for your error in my opinion
- safer for the guest

So do you feel you were unsafe before all the whiz-bang technology? Was a passenger on Westjet exposed to more risk before the this?

A: not unsafe and of course they were exposed to more risk. this gives less chance for the classic "swiss cheese" it provides more accurate numbers

Do you trust computers and the people who enter information into the system so much that you think doing something manually like determining thrust from a TLR and speed settings from a speedbook obsolete and less safe? ... wow!

A: the way it is designed with the proper strict procedures...it is safer. SMS data to this point provides the proof. ...wow.

You of all people should know that garbage in = garbage out... more room for an error to not be caught if you rely so much on automation.

sop's and quality training in our facilities provide the tools to prevent that. Where's your training facilities? yup we are totally leading everyone to the bottom your garbage in and out is the basis for us doing the auto loading of routes to correlate with ATC to prevent gross navigation errors or following some wobbly vor or something typed into a gps. The auto uplift of weight and balance numbers are cross referenced with a working tlr and are more accurate than your walmart calculator with accurate factoring of surface conditions and wind. We also use a DAN ICE model to give us accurate holdover times in the larger centers for deicing based on real time traffic flow reports from ATC. yup leading the industry to the bottom...seems like we are leaders in a lot of ways..... btw you didn't answer much of the other stuff. nuff said tout fin btw sorry for the embedded answers in the previous quotes.

[Flightlevels]

go check em out ficu....get them to fix your deck or something!...lol.


19/05/2009
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
WestJet Care Crew hits the streets of Yellowknife
Airline employees deliver acts of caring in Canada’s North
CALGARY, Alberta. May 19, 2009. WestJet today announced that a dedicated team of WestJetters called the WestJet Care Crew will be visiting Yellowknife from May 20 to 22, 2009, to demonstrate WestJet’s caring spirit. This initiative is an extension of the airline’s popular “Because Owners Care” advertising campaign that takes the caring attitude demonstrated by WestJetters every day across our 55-city network.
“Our WestJetters demonstrate our caring culture every day and are excited to bring this experience off the airplane, out of the airports and into the communities we serve,” said WestJet Vice-President of Marketing, Lauri Feser. “We’re especially excited to be able to bring this experience to Yellowknife, where we look forward to meeting new people and making new friends.”
WestJet launched seasonal non-stop service between Edmonton and Yellowknife on May 4, 2009.
The WestJet Care Crew will arrive in Yellowknife on Wednesday, May 20, at 12:47 p.m., and spend the next several days demonstrating our caring culture in a variety of ways.
Earlier this spring, WestJet Care Crews performed acts of caring in Abbotsford, Vancouver, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Fort McMurray, Toronto, Ottawa, Montréal, Quebec City, Hamilton and London.
About WestJet
WestJet is Canada's leading high-value low-cost airline offering scheduled service throughout its 55-city North American and Caribbean network. Named one of Canada's most admired corporate cultures in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008, WestJet pioneered low-cost flying in Canada. WestJet offers increased legroom, leather seats and live seatback television provided by Bell TV on its modern fleet of 79 Boeing Next-Generation 737 aircraft. With future confirmed deliveries for an additional 42 aircraft, bringing its fleet to 121 by 2013, WestJet strives to be the number one choice for travellers.
-30-
Media contacts:
Yellowknife media are welcome to interview the WestJet Care Crew or travel with them. To make arrangements, contact:
Robert Palmer, Media Relations, telephone: 1-888-WJ 4 NEWS (1-888-954-6397), e-mail: ropalmer@westjet.com

[FICU]

A: nope it's followed the market, jet or not quantify so many years? some fo's are as young as 27 here. don't care about your personal pension. that's comparing dicks...after all you said westjet is drawing the industry backwards.

So many years equals from $40K to $50K base in close to 10 years is a very weak salary increase after you stepped backwards with the initial wage compared to other jet airline operators at the time. Ask many of your colleagues, those that didn't have the right timing with stock prices, if they would have preferred a solid pension plan and more take home percentage. It was a step backwards and a step forward was taken when your compensation changed as I mentioned earlier.

Do you agree with these terms? It's up to you the applicant. Did WJ force you to apply? weak brother.

Weak terms brother... backwards not forwards in that respect.

We are successful because of stuff like this. Who cares about the "likely pay cut" some are unemployed that we hire. That's the key...we are hiring! even in this recession...who else is??? it is old fashioned thinking.

Successful on the back of the employees... you should never have to pay your way in order to be employed in a 705 airline operation. BTW... we are hiring too!

ok yup they know it....can you provide the proof? If they are sooo spectacular better things/improvements or deletions would have happened a long time ago my friend. still a very progressive move trying them. yup leading right to the bottom....not.

In know many people in different areas of Westjet... it was done out of necessity and not pure goodness of the heart. Why do you think it was put off so long... because it costs money to run a port system and we all know Westjet is about profit.

sop's and quality training in our facilities provide the tools to prevent that. Where's your training facilities?

We have SOPs too. We go south for training... but all we do is drink beer by the pool.

your garbage in and out is the basis for us doing the auto loading of routes to correlate with ATC to prevent gross navigation errors or following some wobbly vor or something typed into a gps.

Sounds cool... were you guys having GNEs prior to this which brought the new system in? We suckers type it in the FMS and cross check it with each other and on a map... I guess we are moving backwards.

The auto uplift of weight and balance numbers are cross referenced with a working tlr and are more accurate than your walmart calculator with accurate factoring of surface conditions and wind.

So you have a TLR with you in the plane? We let dispatch and their computer software provide our TLRs. We double check them and will provide actual conditions on the field including runway surface conditions to get revised take of data if need be. We even have SAT phones! That's progressive isn't it.

We also use a DAN ICE model to give us accurate holdover times in the larger centers for deicing based on real time traffic flow reports from ATC. yup leading the industry to the bottom...seems like we are leaders in a lot of ways..... btw you didn't answer much of the other stuff. nuff said tout fin btw sorry for the embedded answers in the previous quotes.

Deicing? ... costs too much money ... no worries on the formatting, you'll get it figured out.

"Westjet Care Crew"... makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. Will they wash my truck?

[balfour]

Drink beer by the pool....that's what we do in Hawaii. BTW how's Rankin Inlet these days?

[double-j]

BTW... my pension plan, a self directed defined contribution plan, is doing very well since I have full control of where the money goes.

That is no different from the ESP at WJ. After a year you are free to move it to whatever you choose, most likely way LESS restrictive than your plan, as I assume you cannot cash?

Pound for pound, like it or not, WJ has a much better pilot agreement then Canadian North. Period.

jj

[double-j]

[stickontheice]

Nice JJ! I remember those days. Thank god they're behind me. Pretty crazy what that one F/O T4'd last year eh? I doubt some captains make that there! If WJ is leading the way to the bottom the industry is in great shape! Obviously it isn't and after this afternoon's meeting you can tell that.

[FICU]

That is no different from the ESP at WJ. After a year you are free to move it to whatever you choose, most likely way LESS restrictive than your plan, as I assume you cannot cash?

We are in full control of where we put our money from the day it goes into our account. You have to wait a year and what if the value tanks in that year? I have buddies who were not happy at all with that plan which is why your group fought to allow pilots to take home a bigger chunk.

Why would you cash a pension in?

Pound for pound, like it or not, WJ has a much better pilot agreement then Canadian North. Period.

You know the details of our agreement I take it?.

We deicided as a group that trying to renegotiate our agreement during one of the worst recessions in decades was not a wise idea so we'll carry through our current agreement. Good luck getting yours through with management.

[Jastapilot]

Actually, I just finished reading version 2 of our proposed agreement, and I think it's safe to say it'll now ratify with flying colors. Just a testament to how well we do get along with management and how both 'sides' work towards a common goal. Is it perfect? Nope, but I highly doubt you can say your contract is perfect.

BTW, you need to get over yourself.

[double-j]

Why would you cash a pension in?

Well, I used some to buy revenue property, there are all sorts of vehicles besides mutual funds.

We deicided as a group that trying to renegotiate our agreement during one of the worst recessions in decades was not a wise idea so we'll carry through our current agreement. Good luck getting yours through with management.

I am sorry you do not have a proactive management that will give you a fair deal in times of uncertainty. Fear not, I have just come from our roadshow and our management and the WJPA have offered us a very fair, perhaps enviable new agreement. Don't need luck, just good relations between the pilots and management. Thanks tho'

Maybe next year for your negots eh?

jj

[jjj]

Been on the road a few days and it looks like I've been missing out on a good scrap.

Hey FICU - get stuffed!!!

JJJ

[FICU]

Hey FICU - get stuffed!!!

Wow! If you and Jasta represent the level of quality of new employees at Westjet no wonder so many pals of mine that fly with the likes of you keep telling me how much the enjoyment of the job has declined over the last few years. I remember that Westjet used to be quite discerning on who they hired but now it seems that they hire anyone. Growing pains I guess. Way to go Westjet!

Hope you enjoy life as a career F/O!

BTW... I am quite stuffed after a fine breakfast thanks.

[jjj]

FICU - you argue with the logic of a child.

I'm sure you're great at house parties but for the sake of your fellow employees I hope you're not on a negotiating committee or something.