how can I improve my landings?

[FenderManDan]

As . is sayin' learn now before this happens

http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 20010522-1

[Shiny Side Up]

Am I to understand that you do not know your height above the runway under five feet by visual clues?

You rely on time and aircraft attitude and wait for the touch down?

What happens if the speed is higher than normal in the hold off at five feet and a wind gust or other change in lift changes your height above the runway to say ten feet, if you can not see this change in height above the runway what happens from there?

First, I feel it important to endeavor to end up in the hold off at a consistent speed which is governed by by the approach. The plane then is somewhat predictable in its behavior. One just then has to think about adjusting for any gusts as you've lessened your variables. If the approach is variable, then the student has significantly higher workload at the end. Once one masters the basics of ityou can start playing with those - but that takes a mind that's interested and willing to experiment that way. Students don't usually have that extra processing power at the start.

Secondly, while I can tell how high I am off the ground, I don't consciously think of it since in general I need to know that more before I start the round out than after, but I don't think of it then either, it's a visual cue. Are you saying that as you approach you have a mental meter steadily ticking down to touch down? Probably not I wager, but what do I know.

It's both a simple and a complex puzzle. The "attitude and arrive" start point of learning to land I feel is useful. Especially I find with the tailwheel where often I'll use the term "freeze the stick". The odd skip landing ain't the end of the world for the neophyte.

Either way, I doubt i'm eloquent enough to put this train of thought down in print, I work better with a toy plane and a whiteboard. I'm a way better artist than a author.

[B-rad]

I'm a way better artist than a author.

LoL, this sentence alone is so bad that it's got to be true!

[Cat Driver]

Are you saying that as you approach you have a mental meter steadily ticking down to touch down?

Yes, I visualize a path to touch down regardless of the approach...

( I prefeer the curving approach with a constant angle of bank to the round out, as it is the easiest picture wise. )

.... and use the visual picture to accurately determine closure rate and height above the landing surface. As the airplane gets closer to touch down I become more aware of height to contact with the surface, a change of one foot below the round out height should be apparent...just prior to contact with the surface six inches should be easily seen.

Once one decides to be that accurate it becomes routine.

Especially I find with the tailwheel where often I'll use the term "freeze the stick". The odd skip landing ain't the end of the world for the neophyte.

When using the three point landing freeze the stick can at times be useful.

However when doing wheel landings one must be very aware of wheel height and attitude at wheel contact.

I wheel land about 80 percent of the time in most tail wheel airplanes.

I find the wheel landing gives me far better control and is easier.

[Shiny Side Up]

The "freeze the stick" is useful with wheel landings as well when converting a nose dragger pilot since many will at the point of contact have a tendency to pull back if there's anything less than a greaser, the sudden change in pitch resulting in instant rodeo.

Either way, the point of it was that if you keep track of one's thoughts, you're not thinking "five feet, four feet... three feet..." prior to touch down but rather your brain is guaging your rate of sink and reacting to that, ideally also tracking how much lift and drag you got left as you lose momentum.

In simplest terms one might be thinking "what attitude do I need at this point in space time and how am I expecting that to change."

One might say people frequently don't think we'll in terms of distances, but rather what they percieve as time.

That's just my thought on it, I don't know a lot.

[Big Pistons Forever]

.... and use the visual picture to accurately determine closure rate and height above the landing surface. As the airplane gets closer to touch down I become more aware of height to contact with the surface, a change of one foot below the round out height should be apparent...just prior to contact with the surface six inches should be easily seen.

I agree with .. The test is the fact that you are not surprised when the wheels touch because you know your height and therefore know the wheels are close in the moment before touchdown.

The challenge is teaching this. Personally I don't think you can " teach " judging your height above the runway, it can only come from experience. What can be taught is the correct height to start the round out and then the correct attitude to hold in the flare and then the ability to appreciate whether the aircraft is sinking towards the runway, rising up from the runway or at a steady height above the runway.

For the new student learning to land I try to take as many variables out of the landing process. As possible. 500 feet to the start of the round out should be a steady slide down final at a constant pitch attitude and with a steady small amount of power on. The landing process starts with closing the throttle and pitching up to the landing attitude, holding that while keeping the airplane straight until a firm main wheel first touchdown is achieved.

[Cat Driver]

Either way, the point of it was that if you keep track of one's thoughts, you're not thinking "five feet, four feet... three feet..." prior to touch down but rather your brain is guaging your rate of sink and reacting to that, ideally also tracking how much lift and drag you got left as you lose momentum.

In simplest terms one might be thinking "what attitude do I need at this point in space time and how am I expecting that to change."

I think in how high am I to surface contact in feet...knowing that accurately combined with closure rate gives me the picture I need to make the airplane follow the pre planned path to touch down.

One might say people frequently don't think we'll in terms of distances, but rather what they percieve as time.

I do not think in terms of time from fifty feet to touch down, I think in terms of if the picture I see.

If the picture changes my planned path I do what ever is needed to correct the change.

I believe that accuracy can only be achieved by constant attention to change...time is only a result of velocity and the loss of same....which in airplanes can be extended with use of power.

I almost always close the throttle/'s at fifty feet or above...in light to medium weight airplanes....Airbus tells me when to close the throttles.


NOTE::

These comments are only how I do it and not a criticism of what you do.

[Cat Driver]

The challenge is teaching this. Personally I don't think you can " teach " judging your height above the runway, it can only come from experience.

For many years I felt the same way, however as time passed and I observed eye movement in the pilots I was flying with I developed a method of teaching closure rate and height that once burned into their memory solved the problem for them and as far as I am able to tell it worked for every one of them.

NOTE::

The above are my personal thoughts and not meant to insult anyone else.

[B-rad]

eye balls and experience

[Big Pistons Forever]

The above are my personal thoughts and not meant to insult anyone else.

Thank you, I consider myself not insulted

[Shiny Side Up]

I'm a way better artist than a author.

LoL, this sentence alone is so bad that it's got to be true!

You're right, not sure why I bother with this site anymore.

[Cat Driver]

SSU don't leave because of anything I say because I think you are one of the better instructors here.

Just go back and read my last few posts, I explained what I do, I did not diss what you do or how you perceive things.

. .

[B-rad]

I'm a way better artist than a author.

LoL, this sentence alone is so bad that it's got to be true!

You're right, not sure why I bother with this site anymore.

I hope your just kidding around.
I was having fun with you! Your comment was meant to be humorous, was it not? cuz it worked!