Summer Ground School

[skybluetrek]

Are they actually hiring DEC with 1500hrs and a fresh ATPL? Is that even possible if a candidate has no 705 experience?

[rudder]

There are two things that have happened at Big Red that gives pause for thought and clues to the future. The massive number of A220’s on order. The new routes announced recently don’t need a fraction of the aircraft ordered. And the new AC pilots contract permits domestic Dash 8 and smaller Tier 3 code sharing. If I was a betting man, and I am not, I would say the eventual plan for Jazz looks like a smaller single type CPA supplier that can be staffed with close to its existing wages. A220 picking up the EMB and CRJ routes, Tier 3 picking up skinny unprofitable routes or routes Jazz dropped due to crewing issues. And with the AC hiring winding down over the next 3 years, the flow thru/ crewing issue goes away all on its own. Just my $0.02.

The biggest clue/concern about the post-2035 future for Jazz is the lack of fleet renewal.

Long term fleet renewal is not paint/seats/overhead bins/wifi. It is zero time latest gen airframes.

The absence of an order for new e-jets to replace the oldest in the Express fleet with a long term plan to evolve to e-jets as the sole jet platform at Express is an indication of ambivalence about the future role of Express for AC.

Fleet renewal represents a massive financial commitment, with emphasis on the word ‘commitment’. Is AC committed to Express operations using Jazz after 2035?

Only time will tell.

[Dime]

Are they actually hiring DEC with 1500hrs and a fresh ATPL? Is that even possible if a candidate has no 705 experience?

They tried and failed to go the DEC route. They offered it for a short period of time. From what I heard, they stopped it due to them wasting a lot of time and resources on 172 pilots with the required time thinking they could pass DEC training . As you can imagine, there was a very high failure rate, plus they weren’t attracting the idea candidates because of the lower starting pay.

[rudder]

Are they actually hiring DEC with 1500hrs and a fresh ATPL? Is that even possible if a candidate has no 705 experience?

They tried and failed to go the DEC route. They offered it for a short period of time. From what I heard, they stopped it due to them wasting a lot of time and resources on 172 pilots with the required time thinking they could pass DEC training . As you can imagine, there was a very high failure rate, plus they weren’t attracting the idea candidates because of the lower starting pay.

A legitimate DEC program is not about minimum licensing requirements.

It is about the conditions to attract the type of candidate that has a 99% likelihood of success because it is critical to operational viability. Think Porter E2. Or even a King Air medevac operation up north.

There is no reason that a year 1 Part 705 CA should be making less than a King Air CA.

DEC will not work when you don’t offer the $$. $$ = experience. Experience = success.

It ain’t rocket science.

[Dime]

Are they actually hiring DEC with 1500hrs and a fresh ATPL? Is that even possible if a candidate has no 705 experience?

They tried and failed to go the DEC route. They offered it for a short period of time. From what I heard, they stopped it due to them wasting a lot of time and resources on 172 pilots with the required time thinking they could pass DEC training . As you can imagine, there was a very high failure rate, plus they weren’t attracting the idea candidates because of the lower starting pay.

A legitimate DEC program is not about minimum licensing requirements.

It is about the conditions to attract the type of candidate that has a 99% likelihood of success because it is critical to operational viability. Think Porter E2. Or even a King Air medevac operation up north.

There is no reason that a year 1 Part 705 CA should be making less than a King Air CA.

DEC will not work when you don’t offer the $$. $$ = experience. Experience = success.

It ain’t rocket science.

It’s as clear as day to us, you’d think they would connect the dots too…..they are never going to get out the mess they are in until they realize the same thing.

[Me262]

Jazz is once again the lowest paid 705 operator after barely 1 year since their latest 25-50% increase.

[rudder]

Jazz is once again the lowest paid 705 operator after barely 1 year since their latest 25-50% increase.

Welcome to the CDN CPA world where market forces are generally ignored (Jazz/PAL/Encore).

Whether that is sustainable remains to be seen.

[Nick678]

Jazz is once again the lowest paid 705 operator after barely 1 year since their latest 25-50% increase.

Welcome to the CDN CPA world where market forces are generally ignored (Jazz/PAL/Encore).

Whether that is sustainable remains to be seen.

Jazz is once again the lowest paid 705 operator after barely 1 year since their latest 25-50% increase.

Welcome to the CDN CPA world where market forces are generally ignored (Jazz/PAL/Encore).

Whether that is sustainable remains to be seen.

PAL is doing great with expansion... how many jazz routes do they have now?

[cdnavater]

Jazz is once again the lowest paid 705 operator after barely 1 year since their latest 25-50% increase.

Welcome to the CDN CPA world where market forces are generally ignored (Jazz/PAL/Encore).

Whether that is sustainable remains to be seen.

Jazz is once again the lowest paid 705 operator after barely 1 year since their latest 25-50% increase.

Welcome to the CDN CPA world where market forces are generally ignored (Jazz/PAL/Encore).

Whether that is sustainable remains to be seen.

PAL is doing great with expansion... how many jazz routes do they have now?

How many?

[Outlaw58]

Yes it's the first class of 2025, not mostly Cygnet, and successful Cygnet applicants get a conditional offer of employment at Jazz when they are selected for the program.

The Application Process
Make sure you are eligible: Canadian citizens or permanent residents with little or no previous flight experience are encouraged to apply. Candidates must posses a post-secondary degree or be able to show equivalent work experience.

Kick off your application by answering a few questions about your candidacy. As you proceed through the process, an assessment (at additional charge) and interviews may be required. If selected, a conditional letter of employment will be provided prior to commencing your training. After enrolling, you will begin your training at Cygnet Aviation Academy LP in Kingston for 18 months, before proceeding to the CAE Toronto Training Center in Mississauga, to complete your CRJ type training in 2 months.

CIBC and Scotiabank provide financing to cover all program costs

https://www.cae.com/flyjazz

Took me 15 seconds to find. Takes you much longer to find highly unreliable info on these boards. Use information found here at your own risk.

58

Not sure if you directed that to me, a conditional offer means conditions and not a guarantee, they of course could have told the candidates that they are not in need but again, this makes the sales pitch a little more difficult for the next applicants.

Was not directed at anyone in particular, just to the massive speculation about the Cygnet route where all the information is readily available.

Intake from there is minimal compared to other pilot sources. There are around 3 cohorts per year of 6-8 candidates. All these candidates are hand picked through a very selective process and thinking that all you have to do is cough up the money to go that route is very misguided. The condition of employment is successful completion of the program.

All public information.

58

[Inverted2]

They’re canceling a bunch of captain upgrades for some reason so I have no idea why they would be hiring more f/os. Not sure what the plan is.

[cdnavater]

They’re canceling a bunch of captain upgrades for some reason so I have no idea why they would be hiring more f/os. Not sure what the plan is.

This is something I’ve heard, I have been doing some upgrades lately, so who’s been cancelled?
It could be the LOU allowing them to not do the training if they are projected to flow in 6 months(I believe, not sure the exact wording)

[prop2jet]

It sounds as if said individuals who have had their courses cancelled are on their way to AC. New Equipment bid coming out today should enhance the picture somewhat. No Reductions per se, however vacancies primarily out East.

[Man_in_the_sky]

fleet shrinking to 80 fins. reduction coming in HOT.

[cdnavater]

fleet shrinking to 80 fins. reduction coming in HOT.

You seem to get joy out of this possibility but the bid memo stated no reductions and there are still Captain vacancies, so no not coming in hot!
The block hours for 2025 are reduction from assigned block hours from last year but slightly higher than the block hours we actually flew, so7nds like they matched what we could do with current and projected pilot roster

[Man_in_the_sky]

that's good. So you could cover the regional flying back again soon

[cdnavater]

that's good. So you could cover the regional flying back again soon

Since we are a regional airline, what exactly is it that you think we do, or are certain routes beneath you?

[Man_in_the_sky]

there is cleary a shared coverage actually with the regional flying. I'm sure you're aware

[Inverted2]

Air Canada pilots will become regional pilots with all those 220 orders coming and since Jazz can’t staff their operation. Enjoy those 3 or 4 leg days and multiple trips through security and customs.

[cdnavater]

there is cleary a shared coverage actually with the regional flying. I'm sure you're aware

Historically Jazz has done many new routes in the AC system that then become mainline routes when the traffic warrants it and then Jazz gets deployed somewhere else, I don’t know what you’re trying to get at.
Jazz can’t staff the fleet we have, that is a direct result of the actions of Air Canada driving the wages down and then overstepping when we negotiated a fairly decent pay raise last year, I don’t know how much it was but it was more than the 31% increase in my take home pay, rumour was it was 42%. Hopefully, the CIRB process will shed some light

[Man_in_the_sky]

there is cleary a shared coverage actually with the regional flying. I'm sure you're aware

Historically Jazz has done many new routes in the AC system that then become mainline routes when the traffic warrants it and then Jazz gets deployed somewhere else, I don’t know what you’re trying to get at.
Jazz can’t staff the fleet we have, that is a direct result of the actions of Air Canada driving the wages down and then overstepping when we negotiated a fairly decent pay raise last year, I don’t know how much it was but it was more than the 31% increase in my take home pay, rumour was it was 42%. Hopefully, the CIRB process will shed some light

can't agree more on the last topic !

Couple of the 285 are waiting for that hearing

[CADPilot]

Jazz just posted their 2025 openings. Been waiting since last May for a call. I'm now close to 1000 TT. Should I still consider this company as my next step or are they too overwhelmed by the amount of Captains vs FOs. I've heard some newly hired FOs barely flew 150h in 2024.

Thanks in advance,
CADPilot

[rudder]

Jazz just posted their 2025 openings. Been waiting since last May for a call. I'm now close to 1000 TT. Should I still consider this company as my next step or are they too overwhelmed by the amount of Captains vs FOs. I've heard some newly hired FOs barely flew 150h in 2024.

Thanks in advance,
CADPilot

While most pilots that spend a career in aviation will aim for a job that offers the LEAST amount of flying in return for the MOST $$, until you are walking around with an ATPL in your hand (a real one, not the 2000 hour c172 instructor version) your goal should be the job that has you flying 85 hours per month, every month. Build your hours as quickly as possible. Get your multi time. Get 705 time if available. Get 703/704 command time to use towards your ATPL.

Until you reach your ‘forever’ job, each stop on the way is simply a step on the ladder. Be careful about choosing the steps.

Good luck.

[KatanaKiteFlyer]

Jazz just posted their 2025 openings. Been waiting since last May for a call. I'm now close to 1000 TT. Should I still consider this company as my next step or are they too overwhelmed by the amount of Captains vs FOs. I've heard some newly hired FOs barely flew 150h in 2024.

Thanks in advance,
CADPilot

I’m in the exact same boat too. Been waiting since May currently around 1000TT. I’m curious how many are ahead in the pool? I imagine quite a few…wondering if it’s worth it to keep waiting for possibly another 6+ months for the call or go up north? Knowing my luck I’d commit to a bond and then get the call

[cdnavater]

Jazz just posted their 2025 openings. Been waiting since last May for a call. I'm now close to 1000 TT. Should I still consider this company as my next step or are they too overwhelmed by the amount of Captains vs FOs. I've heard some newly hired FOs barely flew 150h in 2024.

Thanks in advance,
CADPilot

I’m in the exact same boat too. Been waiting since May currently around 1000TT. I’m curious how many are ahead in the pool? I imagine quite a few…wondering if it’s worth it to keep waiting for possibly another 6+ months for the call or go up north? Knowing my luck I’d commit to a bond and then get the call

Go up North, get 6-800 multi PIC, then apply to Jazz or wherever, you’ll be in a position to bid left seat after 6-12 months right seat and be successful. This would be the quickest path to the left seat at Jazz.
If you come to Jazz in the next 3-6 months, you’ll be three years minimum from a left seat at your 1000 hours, same thing for flow to AC, it takes a lon* time to accumulate 1000 hours at 150-200 per year